Petition: Bring back the Predator!

@iItzaHexGor
i agree,
when you break things down most units in all the race are specialized to some degree or another, just because you don't like the unit doesn't mean it specialized to a point of uselessness
take a look at the medic all it does is heal making it very specialized, but almost every player gets at least one

 

Siege Tanks. Siege Tanks are most effective when they're in Siege Mode. No-one ever used Siege Tanks without upgrading Siege Mode. It made them immobile and gave them a minimum range, which makes them pretty specialized. Just saying that they're equally adept for attacking and defending doesn't mean that they're versatile, as any unit, Predator included, also falls into that category. Also, Siege Tanks can only ever attack ground targets.
Vultures. Having a concussive attack, these were only good against small units. They may be good at scouting, but so would the Predator. Worker harassment is a possibility, provided that they can even get to enemy workers on their low, fragile, eighty health with no base armor. They aren't good against Bunkered units because their concussive attack only dealt 25% damage to them. Same goes for defense and holding choke points, they're weak, fragile and only even got three Spider Mines which could easily be shot down before reaching their target. These to can only ever attack ground targets.
Reapers. These are pretty much only used for raiding. Getting them to flank enemy forces, to destroy Siege Tanks, Colossi, etc, is a very round-a-bout way of doing it. Any other Terran player would simply fly over with Vikings or Banshees. Again, only able to hit ground targets.
Marauders. Designed purely for Anti-Ground purposes, I wouldn't classify these as being versatile units. No Anti-Air capabilities.
Banshees. Banshees are designed for raiding and flanking. They have Cloak, which makes up for their relatively low health to expense ratio. Saying they're good for hunting down stragglers isn't really anything unique to it. Any unit is able to pursue stragglers, Predator included. These are pure Air-to-Ground fighters, and aren't able to defend themselves from the skies.
Seeing as Terran have a lot of extremely specialized units, and most of these units were/are designed as Anti-Ground units, it seems perfectly reasonable for Terran to have both their remaining units as pure Air-to-Air from the StarPort, and Ground-to-Air from the Factory.
CannonFodder is also correct in mentioning the Medics. They are only able to be used for healing purposes and possibly Blind, which was only useful against Overlords.


Bonus 200 minerals for a great post

 

If all you did with medics was healing, then you didn't use them to their full potential. Medic’s optical flare can bring a drop on your workers to its knees (hard to unload when you can’t see). Optic flare can also make life hell for groups of small, expensive units (like carriers and battle cruisers). Also works well on overlords, but you know that.

Siege Tanks: If being able to use them in practically any situation isn’t versatile, what is?

Vultures: They are also fast, cheap, quick to build, and come at a time when your enemy won't HAVE much more then small and medium units. Yes, they aren't equipped to kill bunkers and photon cannons. So what? They can run right past them.

As for the other three, have you ever used them? It's difficult to say what they can do when you haven't actually, you know...played them. And since they are subject to change (maybe even scrap), it’s hard to say what roles they can fill anyway.

 

If we weren't here to discuss units and mechanisms we haven't even played yet, we might as well close down this forum. After all, that's what we're here for: news, discussion, and speculation.

Vultures also made fantastic worker hunters when microed carefully. By the time you get vultures your opponent won't have much defenses and the vulture's speed can take advantage of that.

Also siege tanks may be of more use in their tank form now with their upgraded attack and what not, but there's no denying it's more effective in siege mode.

The Predator looked like a mighty fine addition for the Terrans. The only thing I didn't like were the lasers. Give them railguns or autocannons and I'll be happy. The intercept mode more than anything was just a huge tactical advantage.

 

Optical Flare wasn't particularly useful. By the time that transports are in range to Flare them, they can see where they want to unload. Battlecruisers, despite almost never being used individually, can be Restored by the Medics, which is just another of their healing capabilities. Same goes for Carriers, they aren't used one by one, so it hardly matters whether they're Blind or not. On top of that, once they're being attacked, they can see the attacking unit, and the unblinded Interceptors can swarm out. Medics were only used for healing purposes.
You say that Siege Tanks are extremely versatile because they're good at both attacking and defending. So are Predators. One is confined to Ground-to-Ground, the other is confined to Air-to-Air. Why are you so against the Predator if you're so for the Siege Tank?
By the time you can use Vultures, the enemy will have much more than just small units. Protoss will have Dragoons, Zerg will have Hydralisks, and Terran will have other Vultures. Vultures will deal 25% damage to Dragoons, because Dragoons are large, and 50% against Hydralisks, because Hydralisks are medium. They'll deal 50% against Vultures as well, but seeing as they're both Vultures, the penalties are nullified. I said that they're useless against Bunkered units because you'd said they were good for "killing barricaded units", which is the opposite of what they' should be used for.
Blizzard has told us what roles these units will take, and they aren't versatile ones. Besides them all being pure Anti-Ground, they're all designed for a different type of Anti-Ground scenario.

 

@Shadowdragon
Terrans are specialized, just the fact that they are adaptable confused people. Also since they can transform this doesn't mean they are not specialized, it makes them even more specialized since they are changing the whole machine into a new form to combat a certain role.

Siege tanks = Long Range Assult. Even if you're defending its a highly offensive attack and they are designed to punch holes thru most things.

I won't talk about the others since Itza covered them.

But the Predator would obviously be better in groups, in the video it was only ONE Predator verses 3 Motherships with energy along with 4 Warp Rays. So how could you discredit the Predator?

Also heres the actual definition for Versatile to clear things up for people:

Definitions of versatile on the Web:

* having great diversity or variety; "his various achievements are impressive"; "his vast and versatile erudition"
* changeable or inconstant; "versatile moods"
* competent in many areas and able to turn with ease from one thing to another; "a versatile writer"
* able to move freely in all directions; "an owl's versatile toe can move backward and forward"; "an insect's versatile antennae can move up and down or laterally"; "a versatile anther of a flower moves freely in the wind"

Now in you saying the Siege tank is versatile, I say no. Its focused on offense nothing more nothing less. Its slow, only hits ground units, can't scale cliffs, big and can't fit thru gaps, and it has to spend the time and upgrade to change into another form. If the Siege tank was versatile it wouldn't have two modes it would simply have two cannons and be able to hit air.

A versatile unit is something like a Reaper, as it can fight small units, go anywhere on the map, en masse maybe be able to take out buildings nicely but it has Mines which lessen the need to be massed like Zerglings, fast, very responsive.
Another is the Stalker, as it can fight both ground and air effectivly, it can also Blink out of or into danger which gives it multiple roles such as raiding, assult, support, defense.

 

Nice post Zergalicious, except you gave the example of the Reaper being versatile. From what we know, Reapers have a weak attack so are only good against weaker units. You say that they'd be able to take out larger targets when massed, but so can any other unit. Seeing as they are weak and fairly fragile, and that they can jump obstacles and use D8 charges, they're specifically designed for raiding, and can't do too much else.
A better example of a versatile Terran unit would be the Viking. The Viking's air form gives it a greatly increased mobility. It also gives it a powerful Air-to-Air attack which is especially effective against armored targets. In this form it is able to escape being hit by any Ground-to-Ground attacks as well as Air-to-Ground attacks, which it will now be able to counter. In ground form it is now able to target both ground and air units. In ground form it can tear through infantry, avoid Anti-Air firepower and can still attack other air units. It's able to alter the situation of the battle into its favor by switching between these forms, unlike the Reaper, which is only ever equipped for one situation.

 

If you're going into versatility, I'd stick with the marine. It's good in groups even in the late game, attacks both air and ground, and last quite a while when supported by medics. It's cheaper and faster to make than the viking and available lower on the tech tree. Plus you can use them with drop pods. Like I've said before siege tanks are much more versatile now, as they're viable in tank mode thanks to the huge buff they got this time.

 

True, the Marine is a versatile unit, but the Viking is more so. The ground form of a Viking is pretty much the equivalent of the Marines. They're both ground units and both can attack air and ground targets, the only real difference being health, damage and cost. The thing that makes the Viking so much more versatile is its air form. With the air form it can bypass any obstructions, avoid Anti-Ground attack and acquire a greater Anti-Air attack.
I don't agree that the Siege Tank is versatile. It is more versatile than in StarCraft1, but that doesn't mean that it's a versatile unit. It is still just pure Ground-to-Ground. The only options it has are between being mobile with a direct damage attack or immobile with an area of effect attack.

 

The Terrans are extremely versatile, people who say otherwise aren't taking the whole picture into account. Versatility isn't just about what a unit can or cannot attack its also about maneuverability and options.

The Marine: you guys have already said this unit is versatile so there is no reason for me to debate it.

The Marauder: probably the least versatile unit in the Terran arsenal because it moves at infantry speeds only attacks ground and has no real options, but we really don't know enough about it yet.

The Reaper: Reapers may only be limited to attacking grounds units, but they are extremely maneuverable and the mines provide the Reaper with a lot of choices because they can either be used in some kind of raiding format to destroy buildings/units or it could be used with a main attack force to control how the opponent positions there units (people aren't going to want to lose units to mines) or they could be used as form of early "bunker buster" when attacking a choke point.

The Medic: we really don't know enough about medics yet because we don't know enough about their abilities but assuming they follow the new Terran theme there abilities will them a lot of choice.

The Ghost: Nuke, Drop pods, EMP, Snipe, and Cloak need I say more?

The Siege Tank: While I wouldn't say the Siege Tank is extremely versatile it does have a choice between 2 forms which are both strong but each has its own advantages. Siege mode: stationary, extreme long range, extreme damage, and slow attack. Assault mode: maneuverable, short range, medium damage, fast attack. Those don't even sound like the same unit I would say that's a decent choice.

The Viking: you have already said this is a versatile unit so I'm not going to debate it.

The Nomad: Anyone want to guess at the number of potential uses of the turrets that we know about? The Nomad is also a decently fast flyer so its maneuverable and its detector and it could still get another ability. The Nomad has lots of choice and maneuverability, it's a really versatile unit.

The Banshee: the Banshee is extremely maneuverable with cloak, its speed, and ability to fly. But it really it doesn't have the much choice and can only attack ground so I would give it a so-so on the versatility scale.

The Battlecruiser: it can attack air and ground it has a choice of 2 radically different abilities and it can fly need I say more?

The Thor: ill get back to you guys when Blizzard makes up its mind.

P.S. I only did things from a SC2 perspective because the race's identity has changed a little between SC1 and SC2.

 

The Terran themselves may be extremely versatile, but a lot of their units are very specialized.
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Marine. Agreed. These are obviously very versatile. With the ability to attack all targets with average damage, there's not much else to say. In short, they're versatile.
Marauder. Also agreed. Purely designed for Ground-to-Ground support, it isn't designed for much more. However they do have the ability to slow biological units, but on its own, that doesn't amount to much. In short, they're specialized.
Reaper. I still think that these are quite specialized. They're designed almost exclusively for raiding. Whether they raid the opponent's economy, pinpoint buildings or circumvent defenses, they're designed to get in and out as quickly as possible. The one exception to this would be, as LordKerwyn pointed out, using them early on to bust Bunkers. If they're backed up with a few Marines, they shouldn't need to flee. In short, specialized.
Medic. In the past they were exclusively used for healing, and I doubt much would have changed. They might still have some abilities like Optical Flare, but nothing too fancy. Their sole purpose will still be healing. In short, specialized.
Ghost. Definitely agreed. In both short and long, they're versatile. They can be used for both taking out single targets and taking out bases. They can individually infiltrate, and can also bring in an army. On top of that they can remove Protoss shields, and nullify any spellcasters.
Siege Tank. While both the forms might be different to each other, all things considered, it's just more Ground-to-Ground support. Whether they deal area of effect with Siege Mode or direct damage with Tank Mode, they're purely designed for backup firepower. These would have to be one of the more versatile of all the pure Ground-to-Ground units. However, despite taking that into consideration, they're still quite specialized.
Viking. Also agreed. It'd be hard to find a more versatile unit than this. I think everyone's in agreement that they're most definitely not specialized.
Nomad. Agreed again. Haha, I'm still trying to determine what their role will be and I've pretty much decided that they'd be a great support unit in almost all situations. Defensive Matrix has been changed since StarCraft1, now affecting a localized area protecting units as well. I think this'd be great for Terran, assuming that they can keep their enemies out of melee combat. Auto-Turrets can easily be used for both raids, assaults and defense, Mine Drones on the other hand are more on the defensive side of things. I've also heard rumors that this might take the Ghost's EMP, but I'm not sure if that's a rumor or not. Lastly, their Nano-Repair can also be used both when attacking and when defending. In short, versatile.
Banshee. I feel this unit is similar to the Reaper. It's able to find the least defended areas and punish the opponent for leaving such an area. However, unlike the Reaper, it can also provide some great backup fire. In short, they're still specialized.
Battlecruiser. Agreed. This was versatile to begin with, and now it's been given even more choices. In short, versatile.
Thor. Blizzard can go a few ways with this. They can give it a pure Anti-Air attack, both Anti-Air and Anti-Ground, or pure Ground-to-Ground, they haven't specified yet. However the only way it will be specialized is if it is only given the Anti-Ground attack. With the other two options, the Thor will still (hopefully) have the Bombardment ability allowing it to attack ground targets. It is a costly and fairly risky way to do it, but it can still be done. Definitely not the most versatile of units, but without any confirmation, it could go either way.
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By my count, that leads to five specialized units and five versatile units, which makes up one very versatile army. They have a lot of specialized units which are mainly designed for Anti-Ground, but when balanced with a few specialized Anti-Air units, they will definitely be a solid army. To get these Anti-Air units, they will need a pure Air-to-Air fighter from the StarPort, whether it's the Predator or not is irrelevant as long as they get one, and a pure Ground-to-Air units from the Factory. If they get these two units, then the Thor should be able to remain as Ground-to-Ground and retain its original role as a pure Anti-Ground battering ram.

 

I will judge them on a scale of 1-10 for versatility.

Marine- A versatile unit which can be used in almost any situation. Functions better with more Marines including Medics to further their life span. 8.5/10

Marauder- Doesn't seem very versatile. Its best feature seems to be against fast since it can slow them down units but it is pretty much specialized to groups of ground units. 2/10

Medic- Main role is to heal Marines, better straight forward althought its other abilities won't be that game changing. The only point it gains on versatility is the Healing Inside a Bunker attribute. 2/10

Reaper- This unit can do a lot in terms of its usage. It can flank an enemy assult party, effectivly raid a mineral patch while evading major base defenses, its low damaging fast attack works against many units abilities; the Immortal being one of those, its role can change from raider/harrasser to precision attack with it's powerful mines.
So although it only hits ground it still as a number of choices to it's usage. 6.5/10

Ghost- Doesn't need an explanation. 9/10

Viking- Its main power isn't evened out since it can attack both ground and air, but instead it has to transform into either mode to do so. It can go anywhere on the battlefield, quickly adapt to situations, be effective both early and late game, used in conjunction with SCVs to repair it while fighting, giving more time for other units to engage the enemy units. 7/10
And I give it 7 not 10 because it has to physically change to fit certain criteras

Crucio Tank- Moves slow, only attacks ground, very offensive unit, vulnrable to air with no counter measure. Its not that versatile, yes it has two modes and a few options but within the unit it's self, it is limited to when and where and who it is with. 4.5/10

Banshee- Its role is clearly defined when you see its attack. It fires a volly of rockets on the ground within a certain radius, not all the missles hit the target. The attack is only useful against ground units and works better when they are clustered up. But this unit is quite weak and could be out manouvered, so its more of a stealth bomber for units. It is weak against buildings. This unit isn't that versatile; yes it can be used in raids and flanks but not straight up in your face. 2.5/10

Nomad- Just like the Ghost I don't think it needs to be explain as it can go anywhere, pretty fast, deploy strong structures, detect, used in many if not all situations, has many attributes of Terran units, can repair on the wing. This is not that specialized. 10/10

Battlecruiser- The unit its self is nowhere near versatile as it is slow, and obvious target, can't evade fire very well, must stay in the same spot while attack so it can't be micro'd. But the fact it has a choice of special atack gives it a + point in versatility since it can choose to focus on one large target, or a group of small ones. But it's main role is of assult. 3.5/10

Thor- The only point this unit gains in versatility is its ability to be built straight on to the battlefield (of that has stayed) meaning it gets rid of the problem from being slow and huge since the unit can be built in a convenient location. But its main role is assult and a damage sponge at that. Not very versatile given comparison to something like a Mothership or Colossus. 2/10

The Terran are mainly mobile but when used in conjunction with other units attributes they can seem fairly versatile but the fact you have to add extras etc. to reach that certain critera they loose points in versatility but gain them in mobility.

 

With most of your ratings, I agree completely, but I'm surprised about the rating of some.
With the Reaper and the Banshee, you gave the Reaper a 6.5 rating and the Banshee a 2.5 rating. To me, the Banshee is much more maneuverable than the Reaper, being able to cross voids and oceans, etc. It has much greater firepower, health and armor increasing its power and survivability, and on top of this it has Cloak, further increasing its infiltrating ability. In short I believe that the Banshee has everything the Reaper has, and more. I'm surprised you gave it a lower rating than the Reaper.
The Viking shouldn't be marked down just because it can transform. If anything it should be marked up for it because, unlike other units, it can completely change in order to shift things in its favor. This gives it a huge advantage over units like Marines, because if your Marines are taking a beating from a Mothership, Colossi or Banshees, they're stuck. The Viking is able to get itself out of these situations, making it unable to be attacked, but still able to fight back.
The Battlecruiser was slow, but most of the time, if a unit could attack it, then it could attack back. This kinda made up for its lack of speed because it didn't need to advance to get in range of its target. Also, being a flying unit it could easily maneuverable, making up for its lack of speed. Otherwise, with a very strong attack against both ground and air targets, the Yamato Cannon and the new Plasma Torpedoes, I think this is an extremely versatile unit.
Lastly, despite not much being known about the Thor, if it's given an Anti-Air attack, it'll deserve a higher rating than two. It is slow, yes, but with being able to blast anything within range into dust, as well as being able to be built anywhere, it is pretty versatile. However if it's an exclusive Anti-Ground unit, then it definitely deserves a rating of two, if not, one.

 

I dissagree with you guys on a few units Tank, Reaper, Bansheee (and BC for Zerg) You guys really aren't giving units much respect for their options. The tank can transform into nearly 2 completely different units (if you can call siege mode a ground unit its more like a long range turret) how is that much different from the choice the Viking gets? Agreed it can only can attack ground and can't fly and so it isn't as versatile but, you guys are putting way to much emphasis on the types of units they are designed to attack and not so much on what they could if used creatively. The resaon I say Reapers are extremely versatile is because they can get just about anywhere and their mines help you control your oponent because they can't afford to just ignore and thats on top of their bunker busting role. The Banshee really deserves the points for its manueverability but I would say they are less versatile than the Reaper. Finally, Zerg it seems like all you like to look at is what a unit can attack, well between the BCs choice of abilities and base attack it can take on nearly any unit in the game and that definetly means it deserves points for versatility.

Marine: 8.5
Marauder: 2
Medic: 3 (atm) possibly up to 7
Reaper: 7.5
Ghost: 10
Viking: 10
Tank: 7.5
Banshee: 6
Nomad: 10
Battlecruiser: 9
Thor: 2.5-8

 

IMO the tank is 6.5, because it can only attack ground, its strongest against light (it gets a bonus), its slow. But its still better then the banshee, because it does ok aginast armored, therefore 6.5

 

Actually its strongest against armor as it gets +100.

Also don't forget the definition of versatile

* having great diversity or variety; "his various achievements are impressive"; "his vast and versatile erudition"

The Terran army on a whole is versatile to an extent although at the moment they lack decent AA capabilities
They have diversity but not varity as lots of their units can do the same thing or similar. For example the Banshee can do exactly the same job as the Reapers cept the Reapers have a stronger secondary attack were the Banshee has cloak.
If they where that diverse they'd have all kinds of units with multiple functions and just because a unit can transform doesn't mean it is versatile cuz it still retains that primary role.
And one example is the Siege tank, in either mode it is for assult and destruction. So I think I gave it to high of a score.
On the other hand a Marauder can give high damage to units as well as slow them down but, it is only useful against units with armor I'd bet and to slow infantry down, meaning Terran vs Terran I doubt the Marauder would be a valuable asset but early game PvT they would slow down Zealots greatly. But that in its self is not versatility since its one continuous thing it can do with nothing more to offer.

* changeable or inconstant; "versatile moods"

Although the Siege tank and iking are changable they are not inconsistant, they are consistant with the roles having the Viking as a semi assult/support and the Siege tank stays consistant with its role being assult/seige.
Something like the Hydralisk is an extremly versatile unit as it attacks both ground and air effectivly, works in decent sized groups and masses, it can effectivly hide from enemies which produces a whole new branch of tacticsm it can turn into an egg with high armor allowing it to survive until reinforcements arrive thus having that edge in battle, they can turn into a whole new unit with a new role and mechanic whether it be seige, defense, or ambush.

* competent in many areas and able to turn with ease from one thing to another; "a versatile writer"

Units fitting this description would be the Nomad, Ghost and Reaper as they can adjust to so many situations and their attributes can be used in many ways for example:
All can evade possible conflict; Ghost can cloak, Nomad can fly pretty fast and the Reaper can jump over cliffs pretty fast.

All can be used offensively; Ghosts damage bioligical and Light armored units very well along with the ability to Snipe targets from long range and Nuke which is devistating and can save the use of an army which has many tactics revolved around it, Nomads can deploy Turrets and Mines at its will to help an assult or raid a base, Reaper have their fast attack and can come out of nowhere suprising the enemy thus gaining the advantage, it can also blow up slow moving and static targets with great damage from rechargable mines.

All can be used defensivly; Ghost can take out important targets from a safe location and call down Drop pods to flank the enemy, Nomads can use their Turrets and Mines so enemies cannot penetrate defenses and Reaper can flank and use their mines to break up formations making it easier to take out specific targets.

* able to move freely in all directions; "an owl's versatile toe can move backward and forward"; "an insect's versatile antennae can move up and down or laterally"; "a versatile anther of a flower moves freely in the wind

Although something like a Banshee can go anywhere with little trouble its attack remains simple and obvious without many attributes cept it can take out clustered units very wall so when used properly they can be very useful but still their role and objective can never change as it is pretty much set out in stone.

IMSO, the only main versatile units Terran have are the Reaper, Nomad And Ghost.

So to put it simple, Terran are not a swiss knife with the knife, scissors, bottle opener, nail file, etc. all in one but they are like a set of nicely crafted utensils with their main purposes.

 

Are you sure here? Do you mean a bonus of 100 or total damage of 100? I researched a abit and found out that the damage to light (from the clip with the tank vs marines and medics) must be 40-50, and that it has like 30-40 bonus damage against armored.
About the versatile, i knew its a pretty hard word to use, especially for us not native englishmen (or americans etc.), and therefore i only said my opinion by the ST.

 

Sorry I don't know where I got 100 from, I think it is +50 vs armored... Ah ok, thats the confusion since in Siege mode it does 50 so yea, its a total of 100.

 

wow great posts!
personally i think the viking should be added to the versatile unit due it very high movability and because it can attack all units. It only weakness as far as I can see is its weakness to swarms, but in those case it can just run away, by switching to air.

 

Zergalicious, why have you given the Siege Tank a higher rating because it has Tank Mode and Siege Mode, but you give the Viking a lesser rating for the same reason?
I don't understand why you guys give the Reaper a higher rating than the Banshee. The Reaper is able to jump cliffs, but the Banshee is a flying unit. The Reaper has powerful D8 Charges, but the Banshees normal attack has the same effect except it's instant and ongoing. Reapers have a pinprick attack, but so does the Banshee, it's just that the Banshee has a lot more at once. Lastly, the Banshee can Cloak, while the Reaper has nothing. Why is the Reaper more versatile if the Banshee can do everything, plus more?
Taking pure Ground-to-Ground units, the Tank is pretty versatile. However the game isn't pure Ground-to-Ground. The Tank has no way of defending itself against air attackers, cannot outrun them and can easily be caught immobile. Exclusively taking ground units, it'd probably have a rating of about 7 or 8, but in the full spectrum of things, I don't think it should have much more than a 4 or 5.