Patch 8 (Real)

what was the point in lowering the hydra's hp? that seemed really stupid to me

 

I've recently taken to rushing to hydra tech as they blow away medicore players when massed. I think they needed the nerf but they are hanging by a thread with their price and i'm sure blizz doesn't want the price of them and the roach to be too similar.

 

My opinion of the changes in this patch:

Terran: Fairly good all around. Much more balanced. And the 100/100 for Concussive Shells is just about right. The cost for it needs to be high enough so people have to think should I get more units or the upgrade. But not to low (everyone would get it asap) or to high (no one would get it). 100/100 is just about right in my opinion.

Protoss: Interesting Void Ray changes. Makes the unit from the specs, a lot harder to mass and use. But I'm sure the pros would find a way to use the unit still and make it work for them. That's what makes them pros right?

Zerg: More Roach balancing. And The Roach needed a nerf. And it got it. I would have kept the burrowed speed fast but gave the unit a borrowing time. Like say it takes 10 seconds to burrow and in that time it's totally defenceless and can be killed.

And for the Hydralisk. This is an interesting change. With the unit on a higher tier then SC1 but the same HP. But people reach tier 2 etc faster then in SC 1. Will 10hp make a difference? Probably not too much. But I'd like to see replays of this to see if that one less shot to kill each hydra now effects battle plans.

 

Terran: good to see they're trying to make people see mech as a good alternate to massing bio. 100/100 for upgrade sounds reasonable, as anything less wouldn't be much of an impact to early army size.

Protoss: I dont agree with the void ray nerf. Why nerf what its main purpose was? It's main use was base raiding/sniping since it isnt good against small army units and most large ones can survive long enough for backup unless there are a lot of rays.

zerg: good to see roach nerf, now early terran/toss has a chance against roach rushes. Not sure about the hydra nerf. But I guess it will make it so that hydras can still be countered when hiding behind a roach wall.

 

Terran was my fav race in SC1 until I fell in love with DT rushes and reaver drops. In SC2 Terran is looking very enticing again. My biggest problem with them was seeing 3M (I just think that sounds better than m&m&m) every other game. Balance is part of the reason for a beta; diversifying each races' own strategies is another.

Glad to see the marauders a bit less viable early. I'll be a pig in **** to see some new stuff outta Terran players as a response to the nerf.

 

@8thark,

Don't you think it's kind of backwards that Protoss research for WarpGates costs 50/50 (incredibly cheap for an incredibly powerful mechanic) when they already have Chronos Boost, and then you have Terran who no longer have Firebats to deal with melee units at tier 1, and have to pay 100/100 for a counter that only works somewhat well when not en masse?

Sounds to me like you're punishing players at a high level of play for the one-unit mass and fail-counter of players at a lower level.

 

Maruaders are dependent on Concussion grenades to be usefull, especially in early game, so this basicly means that Terran needs to pay 100 100 extra to use infantry. I gues that Zelot rushes will be more problematic to counter now since Terran needs to choise between slow, that might not be researched i time ,or an extra Marauder to help the Marins.

 

Well in a way I am doing that without realising it. I'd rather those amass one unit and fail tactics be stamped out in the copper leagues then have them survive into silver and above. Then the players go wtf? I massed units and it worked in copper and bronze and why not silver and above.

I would prefer the same stragegies to work in copper as well as platinum and every level inbetween. The only difference would be more skill and more expert timing required for each leagure you progress through. Having dumb tactics work in copper does not help those new to SC2 and want to learn how to play the game properly.

And players at a high level should be good enough to adapt their gameplay style to suit whatever changes Blizzard deems worthy of making.

 

inb4 buff

Also, this really didn't need another topic Lobster, why do you always repost things? The only reason I'm even posting here is because Joneagle edited it.

 

How was this a repost?
I don't get it, I just posted the patch notes ASAP, and no thread had been made before (except for that fake one) and to be honest I think I was first with the "real" changes. And there wasn't anything on the front page so how was this a repost? I posted the changes, and in the bottom I wrote a bit what I though.. Jon just made it look fancy. And why wouldn't he take mine if it wasn't the first?

 

@Lobsterlegs: Convenience? He does it all the time. It's a fact though that yours was second. Just check the post times. Besides, you reposted several of my topics. I was just wondering why you do it.

@Joneagle: Also, don't worry about the8thark's comments on balance. He hasn't played the game. He's just theorycrafting. I agree with you completely, Joneagle.

 

And don't worry about DeckardLee's comments, he's just agreeing to anyone who has a different opinion to me. Be original and not a "yes I agree man" and have your own thought

 

I really get that Blizz is trying to discourage simple MMM builds, but all this does really is ruin Terran's power in the early rush. People who like using MMM as a mid-game main army are not going to be set back much by that upgrade. I don't mind a nerf to marauders now, but they've already nerfed the marines essentially as well (by making Reactor take so damn long). I guess essentially whats happened is Blizz is trying to give the Terran player a choice for his early game bio-army - Stims or Grenades.

I still am interested to see what happens now. This is a big, big change.

 

It's pretty obvious to me that nerfing the Mauraders was the best choice. If you've ever played Protoss against Terran then you should know. The only two options you have early game are Zealots and Stalkers. Zealots get murdered because the Mauraders can easily kite tem before they get charge and Stalkers are a directly hard countered by Mauraders so that's even worse.

Now, that being said, I do think the price is a bit high. But, that's all I care to go into right now.

OT:

Whatever poor soul posted this, I just want you to know that you got everything wrong.

1) I posted the topic before Lobster. Not the other way around.
2) I never complained about it until now which is about six months after the fact.
3) Lobster has a habit of reposting the same information later and then demanding that the earlier topic be deleted or ignored.
4) I've given many news to Seradin through AIM that he could post it before me and thus have more respect among the community to have a higher chance of getting a beta key. I'm such an attention *****

 

who are you kidding man. terran is by far best race you can choke off ur entrance without slowing ur unit production or anything down. you have the best harass units and are very effective. you have the longest ranged unit u can fly your buildings repair them and have a maphack which is the sensor tower.

 

don't know what this means for protoss air, but the void ray was good imo before the patch, now im interested in seeing it in action

 

@Mako: How can you say that? Terran's have been the only race to be consistently getting buffs while the other races get nerfed. Just because Mauraders are no longer the end-all for early units, doesn't mean your race is getting ruined. In fact, this is to your benefit that the game becomes more balanced.

 

Hate to break this to you guys but the patch has just about ruined Terran against Toss. Before I thought it was somewhat of a fair fight with maybe a 55/45 advantage to Terran (which is supposed to happen), but now it's more like 60/40 toward Protoss.

With Warp-In and all the other mechanics the Protoss have to harass Terran it's nearly impossible to resist the front assaults we're getting now.

Blizzard has to carefully balance low level and high level play. You can't just overreact to one strategy without thinking about its broader effects. The 100/100 upgrade at early game is just devastating to the Terran army. It's incredibly difficult to fend off Immortals and Zealot combinations, even without the Sentries getting involved. I mean, honestly, Protoss has a perfect counter in the Sentry. It reduces damage and allows for a temporary wall.

This nerf just isn't working. The only effective strategy left for Terran is to quick-tech to Tanks and Hellions. Boring.

BTW I'm working on getting Ghosts worked into my build but they just don't come early enough to counter this new Zealot/Immortal push.

 

55/45 is not 50/50.

And a nerf is not the be and end all. It just means you have to play better to win. Cause you can't use the previously unbalanced units to win. it just makes the game more "The player with the best skill wins" and not "the player who best uses unbalanced units/situations wins".

I agree with you JonX that this Terran nerf was a little harsh. But they did indeed need a nerf. Maybe just one not as sever as the one they delivered. But Blizzard is trying to make rushes aseasy to counter as they are to do. So you can't just rush and expect to win. You have to rush intelligently.

But I agree the Protoss "perfect counter" as you put it is a bad idea. No race in my opinion should have a perfect counter. Just a counter that if used intelligently works most of the time.

 

@Joneagle: How would you feel if the upgrade were cheaper?