Overlord SC1 vs Overseer SC2

As GMG said, the zerg could burrow for ambushes, and the infestor can move while underground.

But in sc1 there is also the lurker. While burrowed, it acts as a cloaked unit becauce it's unattackable unless the enemy has nearby detection, which is exactly how cloaked units worked. Like the DT rush, if you got lurker rushed and didn't have any detection, your base is history. The only difference is that lurkers could still be attacked while moving.

In sc2, you now have the nydus worm, which if I remember correctly, is cloaked while moving underground, making it impossible to see unless you have detectors, and only becomes visible when it breaks the surface to let the zerg escape into your base.

 

Sunkuns deifnitly can't expand creep now. Note in the batch they said something about using Overlord's slime ability in conjunction with moving Sunkuns.

 

Yeah, you're right Psi. Of course the new, semi-mobile Sunkens can't extend creep. You could just crawl with your Sunkens without the support of a Queen or Overlord if that was the case. But anyways, I hope that they make Overlords more useful by removing the Queen's Creep Tumor building/ability.

 

I don't think it'll make much difference if the Queen has Creep Tumors. You only have one Queen after all, compared to ~30 overlords.

 

But why give the Queen a Creep Tumor if there are 30 Overlords that could do it instead. Feels redundant. It's like giving the Mothership Psi Stom. The High Templars already cover that.

 

as far as i can tell, the queen can only extent the creep thats already there, the overlord tho can make creep appear anywhere, within reasons.

 

hold on, hold on, so youre telling me (in the previous posts, that the zergs dont have transport vessels anymore and would only rely on nydus worms????? no, just no

 

as far as the info can tell us, yes thats exatly what they did to the overlord.

 

well i gather the overlord is to busy barffing creep to hold any units now. I can understand but what about the vision. this is just really odd.

 

ya, it was given to the overseer, i just think that blizz want that slowly increasing sight range. but it would be a little overpowering to have all overlords to have that.

 

Let me get this straight, you believe that burrowing with Ultras late-game would somehow be useful? Much less make up for the nerf on the overlord?

No. Lurker is not a true-cloak unit. "Oh, but it attacks while burrowed" nothing. Lurkers in practice are melee units. <-- If this statement seems strange and incorrect to you, then: 1)you don't play Zerg in seriously multiplayer, 2)your level of skill is high-beginner to low-mid at best, or 3)even if you do play Zerg with moderate effectiveness, you do not utilize units properly and use a good mix.

Lurkers still serve as a tech rush unit because of its burrowed attack mechanic. However, it is nothing like having a true cloak unit. If anyone should feel the need to argue against this and is a Toss user, please just sit your ass down, please, as if you know what having poor cloak capabilities is like. Terran, then you might have something.

The Lurker is one of the very few units that I personally felt that could carry over to SC2 unchanged. It was good enough, important enough in function, as well as being balanced enough to not need much improvement or toning down. But, what's this? Even the Lurker is nerfed, and it's a fat one. The Lurker is now sitting a tier higher than before while everything else got better. It's like making a middle weight boxer fight in the heavy weight class just because he was "pretty good." Not even near champion level in the middle weight class, just pretty good. Meanwhile, tanks got even longer range(specifically bad for lurks), zealots got charge(specifically bad for lurks), and the rest of the SC world is just a nightmare in general.

Yes, please continue to enlighten me on how Zerg is not getting shafted. Right, defiler can tunnel now, as if Zerg players never burrowed them before, and as if that stopped the enemy from killing it while burrowed. Yes, that makes up for everything, it all makes sense now. Ahh~ the light.

 

What I am saying is that Zerg should not have that good cloaking cababilities as that is a racial trait, they should instead have good detection. Yes, bring back Ovies with detection, and possibly with ventral sacs.

Still, Ultras burrowing late game is better than Ultras NOT burrowing late game, don't you think? Same with Queen and Roach. Those are both tier 1, and can now burrow. And the only Zerg transport is permacloaked.

 

You are missing the picture entirely Gasmask. The question is not whether or not burrowing Ultras are better than non-burrowing Ultras, it's whether or not Zerg has been compensated now that it took a severe kick in the nuts in the detection and cloaking. Ultras burrowing doesn't sound useful at all to me, it is a late-game unit, everyone will have gotten detectors by then. So even for the Ultra question itself, the answer to me is no, not much, if even at all.

Burrow itself has very limited applications, merely having more units that can burrow mean jack squat. Burrow doesn't serve as a tech rush, and if the enemy had detection, you just gave up free hits on your already-low-on-HP Zerg units.

Nydus doesn't seem all that great to me. It travels under cloak, but so what? Visible detectors have been insanely useful all these years. In fact people wave Shuttle and Dropships in the enemy's face taking advantage of their maneuvarability. What does the Nydus have? A "possible" safeness on the method of travel that is promised only on paper? IMO, any situation where you can lauch Nydus, you can just as easily Ovie drop. But Nydus isn't as readily available as Ovies, not abundant in number enough to just load up whatever you need, whereever you need and have a bunch of decoys automatically, and doesn't allow you to have detection automatically on hand to survey the drop zone for things like DTs, Lurkers, Mines, etc.

I would like to see the Ovie regain transport capabilities. If we can't have both Ovie and Nydus, I'd much rather give up the SC2 Nydus, have the old Nydus Canal back, and just have Ovies as transports. What Zerg really needs in terms of dropping is transport with Ovies in conjuction with insta-drop. Zerg has no power drop options like the HT, Reaver(SC1), or Siege Tank. Zerg drop still rely on numbers for the most part, other than tech rushing with Lurkers(which is no longer possible, thanks Blizzard). So the mechanic that Zerg can actually benefit from, is insta-drop. Click insta-drop with loaded Ovies, and all loaded units drop in one shot simultaneously. If there are some defense around such as a couple towers or units, then it hurts the Zerg by dropping one unit at a time, however, Toss and Terran do not have this problem. Not to mention Zerg drops naturally consist of more units, because they are weaker individually.

 

Alot of good points, but still the burrowing of Ultralisk can still serve as quite a nice tactic, because, would you really expect Ultralisks burrowed? xD, i see alot of new tactics burrowing my ultralisk, instead of just my Zerglings, ultralisk up ground - units are basicly forced to focus on them, and then my massive amount of Zerglings up right after, seems better than just rushing them in xD

The Nydus Worm vs Nydus Channel? - i'd take the nydus worm anyday since it doesnt need creep to be placed upon

 

You don't need to expect burrowed Ultralisks, because that late in the game any half-way decent player will have detectors everywhere they go.

BTW, quoting a post in its entirety, especially when it is the one right before yours, is against forum rules. Please edit out everything, leave only the portion where you wish to address. If such a portion does not specifically exist, or you just feel lazy to do the trimming work, simply leave out the quote and put "@ Remy" at the beginning of your reply. If you don't comply with the forum rules and fix your own excessive quoting, others will report the above post and a mod will come take it out giving you a warning anyway.

 

Who says we can only hve one or the other?

Why not have Nydus worms as a trasport unit but still keep nydus canals to move units between bases?


Also @ Remy.
The overlord wasn't much in the way of manuverability either. That one of their aspects is they are more effective running on the ground than taking an overlord to the target. Thats why you hear about reaver and tank drop more than zerg drops

 

I'd rather have Nydus Worms and Ovies instead, if we were to pick two. Ovies for regular transportation and Worms as repositionable Nydus Canals.

 

I'm also for having both Ovies and Nydus as transports. Time for Zerg users to cry out?

 

Agreed. Nydus Worm can't be the answer for everything because all you need is some detection and strong units. every race except the Zerg has multiple ways of transportation right now. So yea I'm in favour of giving the Overlord the transport ability back.

 

Yesssss, that's TWO of us. Time to cry out my Zerg brethren~!! Join us~!!

Waaaaaaiiiit just a minute... you're not Zerg! Protoss scum, meet your doom! Umm... you sit right there, until umm... SC2 is released and there is actually Zerg around to kill you. Yeah, take that! Ha!