New VS: Starcraft universe vs Warhammer 40K universe

The generic idea of a guy in armor shooting aliens came first.

 

you know people, of course WH 40k is gonna have better technology, like units that can destry worlds, or can mind control cities, because WH40k takes place thirty-seven thousand, five-hundred years (thats 37,500) after starcraft. and i believe, that if you pitted all the races of starcraft allied against WH, even being 375 centurys behind, would still be able to hold their own for at least a little while. because starcraft kicks ass, and warhammer doesnt.

 

Most likely the combination of all three races would still amount to something that even the Imperium would consider a minor incursion. Remember even one of the most weakest races in 40k (that being the Tau) only possesses 2000 lightyears worth of an empire. The bigger Imperium posess 100,000 lightyears worth. And besides, i've already cited dozens of reaons why 40k would annihilate Starcraft which refutes your kicks ass claim over warhammer..

 

Space Marine armor has HEAVY fluff, you could probably find out EXACTLY what its made of and how it works with a quick nerdy google. The armor itself consists mostly of real-life elements and experimental or theortical defenses (reactive armor etc.)

A Thor is NO match for a Warhound, a Warhound has about equivalent firepower to a Thor, you could say that but probably wouldn't be true. But a Warhound is a SCOUT Titan, making it UNBELIEVABLY fast compared to the Thor, it could get around it, not to mentiong strafe shoot it into oblivion.

You want to talk about the Xel'Naga than I can speak of the Old Ones... and by hell can they pwn the entire SC galaxy. The Xel'Naga got bum raped by their own zerg, so did the Old Ones by Necrons but Necrons are the most powerful race so that's a lot more to say. Immortal metal beings controlled by sun-eating-gods vs. Zerg?

The Imperiums been in a Dark Age for a long time, if it weren't for that SC wouldn't even stand a chance no matter what. As for Planet Cracker fluff in SC, I doubt it's as grand as the Planet Cracker fluff in WH40K (Yep same name) Which is usually the WH40K trademark, everything is bigger, hence the 40K... that's a big number.

Eldar are weak? I don't suppose they've ever stood their ground against a high powered armored suit in CLOSE COMBAT. Not to mention fend of hoardes of Tyranids in the confines of their own Craftworlds. One on one, an Eldar could probably beat any infantry unit from any race, and a marine from either SC or WH40K without its armor would be like spanking a baby for him.

The Space Marine

Also when did Tyranids almost wipe-out the human race? Was that a backstory or did something bigger than the Ultramar sector thing happen and the Tyranids made it to Holy-Terra without me noticing?

 

This is true it, comparing these two in a battle would be like comparing starcraft's marines and firebats attacking a village of cavemen with sticks and rocks.

Also 40K is a game played with minatures and most of its history is written in codexs books and articles. Alot of starcraft's history comes from the same places but the major differance is that starcraft is a RTS computer game (I know there are 40K games but they don't have nearly all of the minature's features). Of course 40K will have planet cracking weapons and fleets of trillions of units because they will never have to apply that to a game except for maybe rolling the dice an extra time to see if their units are hurt by imaginary ships orbiting the battlefield. Starcraft has to make it's history match what you play in the game. Basicaly 40K has alot more freedom to make epic storylines and crazy weapons because most of them you'll never see when playing. When they were making starcraft they could have created a very wide backstory with massive armies, but then when players played the game they would think "Hey, if the history was so epic, why am I commanding 100 units on a 192x192 map?"

Anyways I play both universes and have nothing against either, but comparing the two only by "Which is better?" seems like an impossible argument.

 

This is true it, comparing these two in a battle would be like comparing starcraft's marines and firebats attacking a village of cavemen with sticks and rocks.

Alot of starcraft's history comes from the same places but the major differance is that starcraft is a RTS computer game (I know there are 40K games but they don't have nearly all of the minature's features).

There are two tabletop miniature games that most likely your not aware of at all. The first being battlefleet gothic which actually does have spaceship miniatures and actually do simulate 40k space combat. The second being Epic 40,000 which is basically massive battlescenes involving skyscraper sized titans, superheavy battletanks and various air units.

Thats not true at all. There are still various weapons that even exist in SC (still pale in comparision to 40k) that are not seen in games but are seen in novels and whatknot, two weapons that come to mind are the Terrans Apocalypse class nuclear missiles (1000 was used to bomb a planet although suvivors were left behind) and the Protoss' psionic enchancment device that allows a psi-storm to cover a planet.

Small skirmishes. What else?

Looking at upper limits of firepower, numbers of ships, size of empire, upper limits and lower limits of all units capabilities would more then suffice in comparision.

 

Well alls I knows is, if the Terrans in Koprolu are only 1 millionth of the pop of the general Terran race, I'm pretty sure Terrans could easily hold their own. And i'm also fairly sure, Koprolu is not the only sector with Zerg.

 

Starcraft would win. The CDs you use would be able to cut or chew up the Warhammer plastic figurines.

I don't know how little hunks of plastic could snap a CD.

 

and how will a CD snap hunks of plastic or let alone the metallic miniatures?

 

If that were the case, just about how many humans would that even add up to in total? The Imperium of Man expands hundreds of thousands of lightyears with countless amounts of humans living among the galaxy. Some estimate the population of the Imperium of man to be at a minmum of quadrillions of humans. And nor does this make a statement as to thier technology which would be desperately needed against something that considers the ability to cleanse a planet of life, standard technology.

 

Ha ha ha ha....

Nice one, a Battlebarge destroying a world ? What sort of bull&@# is that ? Entire SW fleet bombarded TS homeplanet and it took them a lot of time to crack it. Whhile protoss purged MarSara in few hours...

Titans.. how cool, EMP shockwave+Lockdown bye bye scrapheap...

NovaCannon is used by Imperial Navy, not Space Marines :] And its so rare that hardly ever anyone sees one..

Mighty ships ? what crap is that, not even ONE warship in mighty Imperial navy operates at 100% of its power, not even at 40% empire is falling apart and the military might equals numbers not skill. Thechnology is a myth, they pray to a boiler and hope it will work Millons of worlds which rarly if ever know anything about others :]

Why terrans would own empire ? Beacuse they dont need astronomicon :> they dont have to relay on very dangerous warp travel to reach other worlds ^^ whoever own logistc wins and Terran > Empire

Not to mention, powerful weapons. Lasgun penetrating 10m of concrete ? and is stopped by a flak vest (standart IG grunt armour) ? what crap is that ? Lasgun power is equal to an assult rifle, it simply has more shots :>

 

And just about how much Warhammer 40,000 fluff do you even know? There is no bull in a battlebarge destroying a world. It has as a matter of fact been done by the Blood Raven's battle barge litany of fury as per the Dawn of War:Ascension Novels. The Rage of Erudition was also able to crack a planet in the same novel was also able to literally crack the planet with thier weaponry. If thats not enough for you then I point you to the novelization Xenos: Where every shot from a space marine battle barge. Still not enough? The novel Caves of Ice states that a brief lance barrage would more then suffice to level continents. The novel Eisenhorn further shows that a broadside salvo is enough to turn a continent into ash. Protoss purging mar Sara in a few hours is absolutely unimpressive compared to 40k ship weaponry.

And all this would work without the Titans blowing up the ghost with navy level weaponry before he ever got in range.... how? Or let alone the fact that titans even go so far as being able to survive an orbital bombardment, and can continue to serve for an extra millenia?

And this ever stops a SM battle barge cracking a planet in half?

Let that be a testament as to how much further potential 40k has to stomp Starcraft and an even further testament as to how little fractional power is needed to destroy SC. Its not like 40k even needs to be fully powered to fight anything in Starcraft.

Thanks to the fact that its being besieged by all kinds of powers which are magnitudes bigger then anything in SC. Tyranids, Necrons and Chaos are a force not to be reckoned with. If anything SC would only prove to be a minor nuiscance.

Even then,said fragments are still maintained. Hell, look at the Ultramar sector. That is bigger then the Tau Empire and the Tau Empire are 2000 lightyears worth of territory.

And guess why they need to rely on those dangerous methods? The warp was responsible for putting a major stopper on all normal FTL travels methods available, thus forcing humanity to rely on an alternative means of travel otherwise known as the Warp.

Said 10m of concrete is a higher end setting of lasgun (and yes the lasgun comes in different power settings) this was accomplished in a gaunts ghost novelization. And it does not simply have "more shots" it can simply be recharged quickly by putting it in sunlight

 

Ha ha ha... u ever heard about Battlefleet Gothic ? Battlebarges AINT made to crack anything, they got strong support weapons and are designed to transport SM chapters, in a Ship to Ship combat thay aint that tough. U say in novels they smash planets ? Bla bla bla... Then Chaos would totally own Empire that way, and Cadia would be a distant memory so cut the #$@#... only units capable of oneshotting a world were Blackstone fortress and Chaos Planet Killer... rest is fluffy talk made up in novels... :]

And how do u wish to attack a cloaked ghost ? he could as well be on board :] besides... Nids swarmed Tytans and took them down... so sorry they aint so tough :]

Yes.. Fluff wise SM dont destroy worlds, they dont have that kind of fire power to crack a world without DAYS of barrage..

Im sorry, but they dont realize HOW to repeair their ships. They are breaking apart... thats why they operate at minimum power :] Terrans know what to do, they know how to use Cloaked ships to break thr shields and smash vital systems...
Sorry.. but BIG ships against cloaked fighters are just.... a juicy target :>

Empire is large... so what ? They cant destroy TAU.. so little as they are why ? Wheres the allmighty Imperial army ?
Besides many many worlds would simpy join Terran dominion :] coz humans in SC are more... normal ?

Hah... Crons use FTL travel methods and ? Terrans would do hit&runs and Empire wouldnt even know from where they came from...

BLAH... 2nd edition SM was able to survive a blast from a battletank and go on... now they fall from mere lasguns ?
So theres no need for SM lets just let guardsman set Lasguns on max and win the war... yeah ...

Lasgun is reliable, offers many shots and the laspack can be recharged by many means... even by putting it into a fire (well it shortens the lifespan of the battery but hell) but if aint very powerful ^^

 

This is funny..seeing how SC IS a rip off from Warhammer 40K anyways...And believe me, I am a big fan of SC...(I do like WH more, espec since I find the tabletop games/real rpgs pnp, much better than any video games)...

But knowing both universes, WH40K obviously is more powerful than the stuff in SC, espec since most of the abilities in SC prob won't even affect stuff in 40K and as someone mentioned i believe, SC being a smaller scale video game, has to be balanced in a very different way (a much easier way for one than a table top game) but for example...you got marines with machine guns that can penetrate battlecruiser and carrier shields/armour? uhm..hell no....that's just dumb and i have the same issue with Dawn of War...but in the table top game..that can't happen. You want to penetrate armour? unless you have Heavy weapons (space marine Land Raiders armour is sttronger than anything we have currently of course by a large margin) you can't...which would make much of the terrans useless.

but you also have to remember, 40K is technically Fantasy... the existance of the gods (nightbringer...yes the necron's are led by true gods...from another dimension, such as the Beyonder in marvel comics or Abraxus, galactus..any ofthose super beings that could rip the entire SC and WH universes apart).... I compare this to D&D where, if a god is to enter a regular world system they have to take a weaker form...their avatar (or if you have seen Dogma, Alanis!). Nothing can realyl kill the nightbringer for example (you may hurt his standard form but true form can never be harmed) and he has weapon in epic (aeionic orb) that can destroy planets, stars, etc. The necrons themselves are the oldest race and have the most advanced tech in 40K..they alone would rip through any SC races. (and should in 40K as well, but due to GWs retarted story telling, that just never happens).

Chaos is another issue...the chaos primarchs, abaddon, etc..these don't realyl have any equals in SC...abaddon's sword, which has the soul of a demon trapped in it, rends reality apart and thus, anything (other than like the Nightbringer) that he hits..is instanty killed. Vehicles/mechs are pentrated and almost destroyed as well. Chaos would just corrupt races in any universe as is does in WH.

God..I can't believe I bothered. this is funny.

I Must say, even though I do sometimes participate in these discussions...

Arguing online is like winning in the special olympics...even if you win, you're still retarded...

 

yea, i chose 40k too. It is just more detailed and there are more units and stuff. starcraft is great and all, but eh.

 

Well Ctans can die only 3 or 4 are left now Nightbringer,Deciver ,VoidDragon and one more i think...

And online forums are made to argue what can u do more here, exchange facts ? Heresy ^^

 

Did you just decide to purposely ignore novel evidence in favor of a tabletop game that only represents space battles rather then actually demonstrate what 40k ships are actually capable of? because if so, then that right there is a fallicious arguement to make. Why is this? TT games succh as BFG, Epic 40k, WH40k, WHFB etc etc are only meant to represent what the hell is going on in the universe that is limited to the allmighty dice and fixed values that are also prone to changes for balances sake thus making TT gaming an invalid arguement in any attempt to use it as fluff. Much like you attempted to do. Also, only by the 40k standard are they incapable of engaging most other ships. Against something that comes from SC, the battle barge would be more then capable in destroying whatever SC ship there is out there.

And guess what? "Fluffy" talk made up in novels, is actual 40k fluff that is the highest order of 40k canon there is out there. Why the hell are you so keen on omitting 40k novels when you yourself have used the Starcraft novel Liberty's Crusade to support your arguement? Do you not see your own hypocrisy yet, or must I continue to explain further as to what the hell is wrong with the omission of fluff to fit your needs?

In novels, planet killing and rending a planet completely lifeless is a normal thing in 40k. There are that many planets and there are that many people to kill. Hell oh so many planets get rendered oh so very often and yet it still does not stop the Imperium especially against Chaos. The reason why Chaos has not destroyed the Imperium with thier planet killing weapons because the Imperium still fields the same (albiet not as powerful but far more common amongst ships) planet busting weapons that are used to counter chaos.

A titan usually has its void shields active to actually prevent such intrusions from ever happening. But if thats still not enough, even titans have thier own adamantium layer with the higher end titans being reinforced with meters thick adamantium (and believe me when I say that in 40k adamantium is a common metal to find, so common that there was a planet that was encrusted in adamantium) Thier sensors have been known to see a good 30 kilometers all around. Those sensors being Auspexes which act as bio-detectors in those relevant ranges.

And from the way you type, its as if tyranids are not tough enough. These are the same units that have bio-titans capable of burning a 20 mile radius of forestry in under several seconds, with genestealers that have been known to slice through adamantium like a hot knife through butter, and have carnifex's which were able to destroy a land raider in a single swipe of its claws (and land raiders usually have a layer of adamantium within), they number in the quadrillions and hell, even thier weakest gaunt unit has been known to rip through steel with its own claws. So how the hell do having titans killed by Tyranids make the Titan so detrimental?

Fluff wise SM's DO destroy worlds like they did in the DoW: Ascension novelization which IS actually fluff supported on the official black library website and I state again, it shows a SM strike cruiser being able to crack a planet in under an hour. Thier weapons are capable of that seeing as how every shot from a SM battlebarge had continental sized explosions, which I state again is in the novelization Xeno's which is yet again, more fluff.

I point you to the novel Execution Hour, where there are ships that are refitted with different kinds of weapons and different kinds of armor plating, unique amongst each ship that it causes diversity, for each ship making them more unique. Surely if these ships have no problem with refitting these ships with different parts then it is so blatantly clear that they are able to fix thier own ships.

There firing against ships that do battle with the same warships that deal out continental nuking firepower broadside for broadside. Since when has the Terrans ever displayed any firepower like that? And besides, 40k ships are also armed with their own auspex's but if thats not enough, they always keep their psykers handy.

A juicy target which they would be completely incapable of dealing with given that the relevant ranges for a 40k battleship has actually been shown to engage at distances that range at 450,000 km, some dropping as low as 15,000 km or 20,000 km even(as a generous low end figure). Weaponry on 40k as I have stated again and again are of a continental destroying nature, hell even the lances are capable of destroying continents and yet 40k Void shields are still capable of withstanding such withering firepower. Just what in the blithering hell can the Terrans ever possibly field against a ship like that?

And do you know why they have not destroyed the Tau? Firstly its because there so minsicule that not all of the Imperium has even bothered to notice them. Second of all, the Imperium deems Chaos, Nids and Necrons to be far of a bigger threat that there resources are usually dedicated to them first and oh so very little to the Tau. In otherwords, the allmighty Imperium's army just does not give a damn about the horribly weak Tau.

and 40k humans are not. These are the guys who put there faith in someone called the God Emperor of Mankind and who are constantly being besieged by the denizens of the warp. If anything the Terran would simply be far to foreign to be accepted.

The Necrons are the greatest haters of the warp there is. Unlike most others, they actually know how to deal with the warp and actually build technology dedicated to countering the warp. Such an example of technology is the Necron's Pylons which is responsible for suppressing the size of the Eye of Terror. So really now, the same guys who actually know how to combat the warp would quite so clearly know how to build an FTL that would actualyl work against the limitations of the warp.

Terrans would do hit&runs and Empire wouldnt even know from where they came from... [/QUOTE]

Fluff is always changing in 40k.

A semi-automatic rocket launcher should be considered useless because a lasgun penetrates concrete? Your not even taking into account that not all gaurdsmen would always do this seeing as how it would be detrimental to thier battery life, yet normal settings are still sufficient enough to cause a single shot to vaporize any poor victims head, also even if they are able to penetrate concrete it still does not mean they can penetrate certain armor types like that of the Rhino or the Leman Russ. Rhino armor was able to shrug off bolter fire as if it was nothing and as mentioned before, bolters are basically semi-automatic rocket launchers. A Leman Russ' armor was capable of withstanding a 150 mm projectile that was shot out at hypersonic velocities. Hence why the lasgun can become oh so useless against bigger enemies

There not powerful by the 40k standard as illustrated above but in any other universes the lasgun would be a gift from the gods.

 

Yes, becouse games are made by NOVELS... many W40k novels are pure crap, comissar gaunt boldly wounding a chaos marine in HtH ? how.. ? books are always overrated :]

Like what ? COUNTER ? how ?? how do u plan to counter a fleet that u are able to detect while it starts blasting at your world ?? Chaos besiged Cadia and its still there.. so ur saying Chaos Ships are so weak and puny that they cannot smash a world apart ? In gants ghosts chaos fleet burned the planet to the ground by orbital barrage... and somehow it didnt broke apart in few hours... fluff is bluff... thats all to it... i can write a novel where one Primarch would fart and a planet would crack... if GW would recognize me before i published the book, there would be Fart Crackers space marines.... ^^

I did ?? when ? i never read that one :]

And Cron H.destroyer shoots theu Land rider with one shot... Tau Railgun too... oh my.. even crappy Orky Gargant can smash titan apart... adamantuim.. wow... Marine from SC also have adamantuim equivalet armour, ships are made from much more rezistant material :]

And superman lifted a mountain... i prefer Battlefleet gothic sheets than overblown novels... they are much more reliable than some words written by man that just asked GW for permission to use their universe...

Sure... they refirt them with new stuff. Coz they dont know how to repair the old one... and in every change those ships are crippled even more....

Funny.. but psykers aint that reliable not to mention they are quite fragile and dengerous to themselvs... the auspex is kinda... crap ? Eldar stealth hides them from Imperial sensors... why do u think terran equipment is worse :]

Necrons serve the remaing ctans... they are nothing without them and Ctans are far from indestructable...
They suppres Eye of Terror ? How silly... they tried to do that when there were still hundreds of them.. now only 3 remains its silly to say thay can do Anything big...

Tau... they destroyed 3 or 4 crusades some made by IG and some by SM and sadly the empire cannot destroy them... :]

Yeah.. fluff changes, maybe in first edition those weapons were so wonderful as u say, now they are nothing special...

 

I have to say star craft just because of the zerg and the over whelming swarm. the space mariens definitly beat starcraft mariens but I think when you incorperate the vihicals and every thing else the terrans have an advatage on the empire of man (sary forgot acual name)

 

A highly incorrect statement on the very nature of fluff and canon. There is no correlation between games and novelizations. Both are only related in the sense that they represent the universe of which they came from. Novels to state the oh so blatantly obvious are a means of telling stories, yet others view them as the means of showing thier known feats. In such a case where feats are displayed they are generally accepted due to the fact that these actions are seen in actual action in the actual existant universe rather then a game which is only meant to represent and crudely display what goes on. And if books are so overrated then I should just simply say that Liberty's Crusade is an overated book simply because the Protoss were able to glass a planet. But I respect fluff and will choose not to actually say or believe that why? because I accept Liberty's Crusade to be actual Starcraft Canon and many of the other Starcraft novels as well. Do you actually think that its right to dismiss the novel because one feels compelled to call them overrated and write them off as non-canon? No, because if that were possible then the Gantrithor's bombing of Chu Sara would never exist and there would be far less firepower that would exist for the Tau. So stop writing off fluff just because it does not suit you.

Simple. By shooting back at it and force it to divert its firepower elsewhere.

No I am not. It just merely proves how well defended Cadia is against the foes of chaos. Cadia is a freaking fortress world with oh so many defenses up its wazoo that most of its defences would shoot down chaos ships before they would get the chance to fire upon the planet itself. Also there is the fact that around 5000 necron pylons exist on the surface of cadia which are responsible for suppressing the size of the eye of terror. And also the relevant Navy defenses responsible for engaging ships in space.

[QUOTE}
In gants ghosts chaos fleet burned the planet to the ground by orbital barrage... and somehow it didnt broke apart in few hours... fluff is bluff... thats all to it...

You do know that two primarchs fighting on a planet actually are responsible for cracking a planet right? And obviously not all planets crack under orbital fire, the aformentioned battle barge was a more higher end case, rather the planet just gets severely glassed and rendered lifeless enough so that not even a micron of bacteria can still exist there. And theres the fallacy right there, get your book recognized by GW and have it published with thier seal and you may if you wish have it called canon. But when its not recognized by GW its obviously not canon.

State the relevant quote on this one.

It only merely shows just how many adamantium cracking weaponry there are out there in 40k. Anyone with half a mind knows that even the low end chainsword has monomolecular edges that are also designed for penetration through adamantium. Bottom line with adamantium as a common occuring metal in 40k, it only makes sense that there should be alot of adamantium cracking weaponry.

Prove it. Show me where it states that Terran Marines have anything that is adamantium armor at all.

And held black holes in his hands, survived flying through a red sun, lifted a kryptonite island into space, flew around the world to turn back time, etc etc. How is superman even relevant to this conversation?

Your personal preferences do not win out over what GW has actually declared as canon.


Edited out quotes. Please read the forum rules and refrain from quoting unnecessarily.

Simple. Because Eldar equipment is far superior to that of the Terrans and that of the Imperium. Eldar stealth technology are intentionally advanced enough that it obfuscates optical sensors and other targetting sensors. Wraithbones tend to bend radiation around there contours. They also have holoshields that fragment images of thier targets and create sensor ghost on purpose.

Except of course possess the most superior FTL drives that ever existed in 40k which allows them to reach thier destinations in seconds with lightning guns that are capable of destroing 5 of the Imperiums frigate in a single lightning arc. They cleanse entire worlds of life and rend souls and enslave them into machinery. Even with such few C'tan left the Necrons are still more then a viable threat in the 40k universe.

There was only one crusade that they "drove away" and that was the Damocles gulf Crusade which was actually flawed. First of all SM's in that Crusade were employed infrequently. But when they were they wreaked havoc on the Tau. Second of all, supply lines were intentionally left unguarded leaving them to picked off by the Tau, the Crusade itself was also to hastily mustered and finalized. And although these flaws still took place the Imperium nearly did win against the Tau had it not been for the fact that those in the Crusade had to be diverted to fight an incoming Tyranid Hive fleet which was a far more greater threat then the Tau.

You do know that most of my mentioned fluff did not even exist when the first edition was released right?


Merged posts. Please read the forum rules and do not double post.

Do the Zerg even number in the quadrillions? because thats how large a single Tyranid hive fleet can be. And even with them running around the galaxy the Imperium of Man (for the time being is still alive). If anything the Zerg in 40k would be an underwhelming swarm since the IoM are highly accustomed with ridiculous numbers (thanks to the Orks). Hell even the Imperial Guard can be a massive force. Some state that the IG are so massive that if the IG's soldiers were lined up standing shoulder to shoulder, they would cover an entire planet.

And the Space Marines don't have vehicles since when? They have long range whirlwinds, Rhino tanks able to withstand the hits of what is otherwise a semi-automatic rocket launcher, has tanks that even have a layer of adamantium on it (same goes for terminator armor) along with gunships that have 750 km/s (IIRC) speeds of acceleration. So how are Terran vehicles advantageous over 40k vehicles?