New Thor Thread

To be salavagable or liftable all depends on the Thors final stats, as if it was weaker with a faster build time, salvage would seem a better option since it would be faster. But if it goes back to the tough Thor then lift off would probably work better and that way its balances its self out by being slower and vulnrable.
But yea, I do agree with what you're saying.

How about just give it both as if it was salavagable it would balance its self out. Only returning the correct minerals relative to hitpoints, being slow, vulnrable.
If you think about they're kind of the same, the time it would take for a Thor to reach the destination would probably be equal since by the time you've salvaged the Thor, the floating Thor may be half way, then the SCV catches up in no time, and as its finished the build, the floating Thor will reach there by the time the other is built.
Only difference is, the flying Thor can land, unless the enemy micros his units underneath, and defend its self, when salavaging the Thor will be at a bigger risk because if the SCV dies, no more salavage.

 

It is not the same because salvage makes the Thor the only unit with a privileged status by eliminating a the liability that comes with unit deployment. Example:

You drop some SCVs to build Thors to wipe out an enemy's remote island expo that's poorly guarded. Once the small island is cleared out, you find yourself running into some trouble at the far side of the map. If what you deployed was a fleet of BCs, mutas, or whatever else, you would need to take the time to fly them back. With salvageable Thors, you can just salvage off the deployed Thors and build new ones across the map. It grants a kind of safety that is not found with any other unit in the game, which, is an imbalance.

Powerful units(especially offensively) usually carry the balancing factor of slow movement, but the Thor would be granted exemption to such balancing. The only other way to balance that out would be to make the Thor a weak unit, but I don't think that's what anyone wants.

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I've thought of another possibility where the Thor could become a high priority target, and thus, effectively function as a tanking meat shield for the Terran. It kind of goes along with all the other changes I personally want to see with Terran(which I've mentioned in the Jackal thread).

Basically, make the Thor slow/stop/stun enemy ground units in a wide fan-shaped AoE in front of it, from range 0 up to a range of 6 or so. It think it should be something that's there all the time as opposed to an active ability with duration. I also think the Thor should have two separate normal attack targeting one ground target and one air target simultaneously. The Thor has enough guns to pull off all of that IMO.

Obviously this overlaps with the Marauder, but since I never wanted the Marauder to be in the game in the first place, that's not really a problem for me, personally.

Let me recap everything I'm suggesting for the Terran:

Medic - I wish to see the Medic back. In turn, scrap the Dropship's healing.

Dropship - Let it slowly repair loaded mechanical units. This would sharply distinguish it from the Medic's heal, and also help with power drops.

Marauder - Scrap it.

Reaper - Merge Reaper and Firebat to become the high mobility dedicated anti-infantry of choice. Flame attack splash works under Dark Swarm, bonus damage to light units.

Jackal - Change it back to the Cobra mechanic of simultaneous move-and-shoot. It's a cool and unique mechanic that can also provide pro-level micro results for the less-than-pro skilled player. But instead of making it a specific anti-armored or anti-infantry, simply make it deal full and equal damage to all units(perhaps even armor negatiting attack to truly get "equal" damage). Make it attack both ground and air, with decent range. The idea is to go for a moderately decent all purpose(something that the Terran has never had, ever) unit, that could supplement the main Terran force nicely in all situations. It needs to be just a *tad* faster than the Cobra though.

Thor - Give it 800 or so HP, make it SCV-buildable, and give it Lift-Off. Give it Concussive Barrage: a passive auto-ability where any and all ground targets within a wide fan-shaped AoE(like Barrage) is attacked with a low damage attack that slows/stuns/stops for a short period of time. Let it also have a separate normal attack independent of Concussive Barrage(can attack normally while also unleashing Concussive Barrage) where it can target one ground target and one air target separately and simultaneously. Either that, or make it work by mode-switching(like Siege Tanks) where it keeps the normal ground+air attacks in normal mode, but switches modes to become stationary and bombard the wide fan-shaped AoE with a overall weaker but slowing attack.

 

Remy I agree with all your points especially what you said on the thor not having salvage. However can you explain your "Concussive Barrage" idea a bit more. To me it sounds like an ability that repeatedly stuns all ground units in an area. I'm pretty sure thats not what you are trying to say, but thats what I got after reading over the ability twice.
Other than that nice post, reaper firebat sounds very cool with close range death.

 

no the thor wont overlap with the bc's if it deals huge damage against single target... i did not say my thor version can switch between single and aoe damage. and my revision of the thor is still a heavy tanker for the terran. 800-900 hp.

slow attack for the thor? imo the thor should deal huge single target damage as simple as that. it makes better sense lorewise, its an uver mech with huge guns.

and i disagree about the marauder... visually and lorewise its a cool looking and powerful looking unit... and very much effectivejust like the marine, firebat, and the reaper or even better. it just in game the attack visuals doesn't justify how it is like in lore or real life (explosive grenades), i just hope the attack annimation will look impressive.

i agree with reaper + firebat. get rid of the dual pistols. but i would also like to see an electric kind of attack for the reaper that can reap and burn right through enemy skins then name them electrobat. haha.

then change the jackal into a gta unit plus the launch medic drone ability. there.

dont scrap the marauder.

 

Wow the Marauder can slow down units, thats so useful when 50 Zerglings are advancing on your position isn't it...

 

Actually it would be quite useful. At the moment, a single Marauder can successfully kite a Zealot with little micro, so having a few Marauders dealing their slowing area of effect attack to the entire front line of Zerglings would slow them down drastically, giving your Marines and Siege Tanks more time to attack before they're in melee combat or the Zerglings are within their dead zone. Not only that but the still fast Zerglings will get stuck behind the slowed ones, effectively slowing down the entire attack.

I don't see why everyone hates it so much. There are three effective ways to stop your army from dying. The first is to have healers, which the Terran have with Medics/Medivacs, the second is to have something else take the damage, which the Terran should have with the Thor, and the third is to stop them from being able to attack, which the Terran have with the Marauder. Heal, tank and kite. The Terran can't last in combat so why get rid of one of their ways to survive?

 

well 15 microing marauders with some few marines can handle them imo... and plus im sure blizzard is still trying to fix the slowing effect of the marauder to put for better use.

 

if you guys remeber the sc2 matches they had you saw the little doors they had, remeber? well imagine having Marauder at that door while units are trying to rush in.... its just not ganna happen. You might not use the Marauder but when you lose the start of all your (whatever)vs terrans and you cant figer out why. remeber this thred

 

@ zeratul11. Fifteen Marauders is a bit over the top. They're support units and aren't supposed to make up the rough majority of your fighting force. You'd probably be better off having fewer Marauders but more Marines. The Marines are the damage dealers, and Marauders are the slowers. If you're dealing more damage you won't need to slow them down as much, which is much better than slowing them down so much that you hardly need any damage, especially seeing as Marauders can't attack Air targets, etc, etc, etc.

 

the ability on the Marauder has been updated.

From Karune :

"The Marauder's attack effects a single target and is not an area of effect attack."

Source: http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=sc2-general&t=1107089&p=4

 

Well thats not much help against infantry then since theeres so many of them.

With the speed of cracklings I can imagine the best players having trouble getting a marader on each target. To delay them.

 

@ CannonFodder, Actually, that kind of is what I was saying. The Thor goes about its normal business attacking single targets, but with the rest of its guns, it constantly keeps the fan-shaped AoE covered with Concussive Barrage. It should probably be a constant value(no stacking) percentage slow(like the current Marauder mechanic) instead of stun due to the possibility of it being OP when you have more than one Thor on the scene. Naturally, to take get the most out of the Thor's Concussive Barrage, you would have your Thor(s) up front to take maximum advantage of the rest of your Terran firepower. And due to the Thor being a huge hindrance in tackling the Terran army on the ground, the Thor becomes a priority target.

The guns dedicated to Concussive Barrage would only fire when there are targets in the AoE, but when there are targets, all those guns fire simultaneously to effect the entire AoE at once. It should show as such visually as well, with the whole AoE being bombarded. The Concussive Barrage would have an attack cooldown just like normal attacks, firing once every 1~2 seconds or so.

@ Zeratul11, You have your priorities mixed up. A unit being cool, nice, good, or whatever else lore wise, is no reason for it to be in the game. It is merely a reason why it doesn't necessarily have to be scrapped. You can come up with an infinite number of units that absolutely rock lore wise but do not work at all in the game. Also, the Thor with high damage vs single target would still overlap with BCs because of Yamato, unless it's been scrapped, which I didn't know about. The Yamato dealt 260 vs single in SC1. I don't know how much higher you're thinking, but that's pretty high in my book.

@ Hex, There are more than just three ways to keep your troops from dying. I can think of a few more ways right off the top of my head. You can kill the enemy troops before they kill you, which is how the glass cannon Terran has always worked. Or you can also reduce the damage that your troops take altogether, either by mitigating the damage received from augmenting your troops defensive capabilities(buff) or by reducing the enemy's damage output(debuff). You can also make your troops unable to be targeted through mechanics or technicality, such as cloak, switching modes(Viking), levitate to become non-ground targets(Anti-Grav), or some kind of invincibility buff that disallows targeting period.

Just to get it out on the record, I personally do not hate the Marauder. Anyone who's played WoW(yech) or WC3(yech), or just any other game where more than one unit type, class, or ability/mechanic work together should know that the ability to slow the enemy down is indeed a powerful one. I've never said the Marauder sucks, I've never said it doesn't work, because it does. However, I personally do not want to see the Marauder in the game at this point. I do not believe the mechanic is something the Terran should have at tier 1. But more importantly, I do not think the Marauder sits well with the rest of Terran when you look at Terran as a whole, the big picture. If the rest of the Terran mess is cleaned up and the Marauder goes well with it all, then perhaps. But from what it looks like at the moment, I don't think it fits.

The Marauder takes up the Medic's spot in the M&M equation, we have the Dropship healing which is gayness, and the Reaper is obsolete, everything's a mess. I'm not saying the Marauder's slowing ability isn't good for Terran or that it should definitely be scrapped, but I think it would be better moved to the Thor. That way, the Thor can function as a tank/meatshield, the Medic can return to the Terran infantry lineup, and the flamethrowing Reaper can have a real job as dedicated anti-infantry. I might be missing some crucial point sitting right in my face that completely destroys all that and make it all not feasible in the slightest, but so far, it sure looks like a better plan of attack to me.

I've kind of discuss why I think things are the way they are right now with Terran in the Jackal thread, but perhaps part of the reason why the Medic was removed and the Marauder added was because Blizzard couldn't come up with anything good for the Medic. Just to address that small possibility, I want to throw some Medic ability ideas out there.

Heal - Classic Broodwar pizazz, the good stuff. Keep it like how it always was.

Optic Flare - Blinds a single target reducing its sight radius and attack range to 1, also makes mobile detectors unable to detect. Unlike the SC1 Optic Flare which sucked ass, this spell reduces an effected units attack down to melee range, regardless of whether or not there are other friendlies around to "spot" for it. This effectively takes away an enemy ranged unit's advantage, greatly reducing its combat effectiveness, the tactical advantage gained is obvious. The exact details would depend on balance, but it should be a duration and not a permanent effect. Would depend on actual mana cost, but around a 30~45 second duration sounds about right.

Overdose - The medic force-pumps a friendly(one of your own) biological unit with the StimPack drug, but at an insane dosage. Overdose "kills" the target unit instantly, but due to the powerful effects of the drug in such a high dosage, the unit still functions after its death for a short period of time while under an even greater StimPack effect than the normally used dosage. You can kinda think of it as making one of your own biological units into a sort of hyper zombie I guess, I don't like to describe it as such, but I think it'll help make it easier to understand.

In-game wise, Overdose kills the target instantly with no way to stop or reverse the effect, but the unit "lives on" for about 5 more seconds while gaining StimPack attack speed(2X normal) and roughly 2X StimPack movement speed. So basically during that short period of time, the unit attacks just as fast as when StimPacked, but moves 1.5~2 times faster than when StimPacked. The Overdosed unit dies after 5 seconds no matter what, but not before that.

So why would you use this stupid skill and kill off your own units for such a short effect that you can just get from normal StimPacking? Well, Terran infantry are relatively flimsy units that die easily. When your Marines(or whatever else biological) are going to die anyway with just an ounce of health left, you kill them off on your own and have them serve you for 5 seconds longer, on hyper mode. Another use may be to Overdose a small number of Marines or Reapers turning them into a suicide squad to charge in and attempt to take out key units such as casters. Since they're already dead, they can't be killed, and moving at 1.5~2 times StimPack speed would help in charging and chasing down enemy units in the back.

Invincibility is often a bad thing, but I think such a short duration and the fact that the target units are guaranteed to die afterwards would be enough of a balancing factor to prevent abuse. The enemy could use micro to make you waste units if you just Overdose all day for instance. I really liked this ability when I thought it up, but since I can't think of everything, please feel free to point out any obvious flaws.

Since there are some people really anal, err... specific, about lore, let me go ahead and address that while I'm at it. Basically, you can think of the Medics as a sort of commissioned officers in charge over the rest of the Terran infantry, like trained non-criminal actual military personnel that outranks Marines and the rest of the guys. On the battle field, they are tasked with making the Terran infantry's combat units fight the good fight. But even though Marines and Reapers are valuable, they're still expendable to some degree, especially when their usefulness runs out. So if and when a Medic decide that some Marines are going down anyway, she forcefully administers the drug in lethal amounts to get some extra mileage out of them. As bad ass as Marines and Reapers are, they still would rather live to fight another day, so they don't just Overdose themselves on their own.

Mark Target - Medic marks a specific enemy target for nearby Marines to attack, this allows them to target the marked target from a slightly greater distance than normal. Basically, the Medic designates a single target to be "marked"(kind of like how the Ghost paints the strike zone for Nuking, except it's on a specific target), and nearby Marines gain +2~3 to attack range VS that specific target. Keep in mind, this is target specific, it does not directly increase all nearby Marines' attack range by +2~3, but only VS the specifically "marked" units targeted by the Mark Target ability.

Yes, lore lovers, I got a story for you on this one as well, since I can already hear people saying "omg, how can the Marine's rifles just magically shoot farther? wtf..." When a Medic marks a target, it isn't her shouting "shoot that." Rather, the target is marked electronically, and it shows up on the Marines' visors. So instead of how Marines shoot at stuff normally, they can target and aim according to what's shown on their visors. So basically to logic lore wise is, their rifles are capable of hitting targets from greater range, so long as they can accurately aim at them.

 

bcoz he said it was agaisnt 50 zergling... and thats too many. i think you can easily make 15 marauders by the time he gets 50 zergling. so about the marines, ok 15 marauders and 20 marines. or 10 marauders 25 marines.

@remy.

well all i can say is the sc lore suffers just bcoz starcraft's priority of having fast pace exciting gameplay.
and for example, you like the thor to get the stun or slow effect from the marauder. well imo and obviously that would suck lorewise and doesn't make sense at all (huge mech guns that stops and slows zerglings, hydras etc, for short time, the thor will insatantly kill anything especailly small units like zerglings, hydras, immortals etc..and obviously will not slow or stun anything lorewise. maybe cept for the colosus or ultra but thats just hard to imagine and unlikely and useless (since in real life the ultra may aready be half dead and another shot would kill it). lorewise the thor is build to kill enemies instantly not to slow them down.

lorewise the thor can just step down and crash zerglings, marines, zealots, etc like an ant.... and if you see the thor stun and slows zealots in game that would just exagerately far from the lore.

although it will be good gameplay wise.... thats ridiculous lorewise. imo lorewise also plays an important part, it should be equally balance with gameplay on how to choose units and their abilities. at least the marauders(not a giant mech) with the grenade launchers can slow down surviving enemies when they are not killed from the first shot lorewise maybe from the after electric stun effect of the grenade.

about my thor, the high damage on single target is from his ability. the thor attack would be normal. they are very much different than the bc bcoz its ground and its a ground tanker.

the thor with the slow / stun effect makes the thor less of a unit than the original one with the bombardment barrage and the thors gta version. it just become a giant supporting unit. gameplay wise its not impressive for its look and lorewise its mediocre and unreal.

 

I'm aware that there are other ways to avoid taking damage, but I just listed the three main ways that the player would have the greatest control over. I was thinking of listing killing them before they kill you as well, but it's not really something the player has a great control over as the enemy is trying to do the same thing as well. The player will always pretty much have the greatest control over healing. They make the Medics/Medivacs, position them and can order them to heal specific things. There isn't much the enemy can do to stop healing other than taking out the healers, which in the case of Medics will be healed by other Medics and in the case of Medivacs, if the worst comes to worst and they do end up replacing Medics, they could be repaired. The Terran will always be healing, thus keeping all their troops alive, and it's near impossible to stop them from doing so. The same goes for the Marauder's slowing attack. The player has a direct control over it and it's extremely hard to physically stop them from slowing your army. Try to take them out and they're being healed, you can't stop them firing, etc, etc, it's pretty much the same as healing. Tanking is a bit different as it plays with the enemy's minds a bit more, or at least it does if the proposed idea for the Thor comes into play. The Thor would be dealing a lot of damage so the enemy would want to take it out as quickly as possible, and it has a lot of health so it is able to take a lot of that damage. The player doesn't have a direct control over this, but it's pretty definitely going to happen. Killing your enemy before they kill you is still valid, but the player hasn't got much control over it. They can build and build and micro and micro, but their enemy is doing the same thing. As much as Terran are designed to be a glass cannon, dealing lots of damage from a distance but being fragile themselves, both Zerg and Protoss are designed to withstand and overcome that. Buffing and debuffing aren't really that valid in StarCraft, it's more of a WarCraft thing. There aren't too many spells or abilities that you can buff your own troops with, the only real one I can think of is Stim Packs which damages them as well so isn't a particularly reliable way of keeping them from dying, and although there are a couple more debuffs, they don't really reduce the targets damage output, they basically just increase yours which kills them, thus reducing their damage output. However both buffs and debuffs are just abilities. All teams have them so in a way they cancel out. As much as you're buffing and debuffing your opponent is doing the same so it's not like healing, tanking and kiting. With Cloak and transforming, they don't apply to all units. Yes, they do stop that one, individual unit type from dying, but tanking, healing and kiting stop almost all unit types from dying. Also with transforming it also stops the Viking from dealing damage as well.

I don't really see how the Marauder doesn't fit in with the rest of the Terran. The Terran need everything possible to prevent the enemy from dealing damage and the Marauder is another way they can do this. It seems logical that they'd create such a unit, so it fits lore-wise, and gameplay-wise, it's just another infantry unit, which the Terran are known to have a lot of. Visually I feel that its helmet could be made to fit in a bit better, if it were made to be more like the Marine's or Firebat's instead of the weird thing it has now.

About your Medic ideas. Of course, Heal is awesome. Optical Flare looks much more effective but do you think it should still work on units like the Thor, Colossus, Siege Tank, etc? Overdose is interesting, though I'm not particularly fond of the immortality for the lore side of it, I think there could be another explanation other than them in essence, being zombies. Instead of immortality, couldn't they just be given a huge armour bonus? Or maybe it could be as though they're under the effect of the StarCraft1Defensive Matrix, taking one damage from every attack? It would mean that they could still be killed while overdosed, but I don't feel that's a bad thing. Also, I think it would be wise to get rid of the zombie train of thought. Whether it's an accurate representation or not, having dead trigger-happy Marines running around at insane speeds. Instead why not just make the drugs kill them after the five seconds rather than 'killing' them right at the start? They'd still be alive when under the effects of Overdose, because they've still got to obey orders, etc. In my opinion they should be given such a large dose that they're completely unaware of pain, thus taking very little damage from enemies, and that after their body starts to absorb all of it or whatever, about five seconds later, they're killed by the Overdose. No zombies, no immortality, no murder, just a good, old fashioned, drug induced rampage, then death by overdosing. Mark Target could be interesting, but it wouldn't it require you to focus fire on specific unit? I mean, it's great with priority targets like Thors, Colossi and Ultralisks, but they're seldom going to be just outside of the Marines' range. It might also be a fix to when you see that one unit sitting right on the very edge of your vision, out of range of your Bunkered troops, but that's not really an important aspect of the game that needs to have a counter, especially seeing as it's usually accidental and there are also other quick fixes like Snipe. Anyway, that was a bit of a tangent, but I really don't see this being used to often. Perhaps if it was an electronic transmitter or something that the Medic threw onto the battlefield allowing Marines and Ghosts, etc, to have increased range when attacking that area it would work well, but against single targets, I'm not too sure. In my opinion the Medic should have Heal, Restoration, your suggested variation of Optical Flare (although I'm still not sure about it working against Thors, etc.) and Stim Packs. Heal and Restoration are essential classics, Optical Flare would negate both Detectors and long ranged units, and Stim Packs would help, but not fix, their problem with being too slow for Reapers. The reason it wouldn't fix the problem is because Medics would still be unable to jump cliffs, however Reapers should not need to rely on Medics after that point. They're base raiders, not front-line fighters. Hit-and-run, not stand-and-fight. They should not be in a situation in which they need to be healed by Medics, but if being able to increase the Medic's speed would help, then it should definitely be done. Besides, when Stim Pack'd Marines are running forwards, the Medics drag behind anyway when that's the time they're needed most.

EDIT: @ zeratul11. Fifty Zerglings isn't really over the top. They're basically meant to be massed, but Marauders aren't. When your opponent has made fifty Zerglings, you're not going to have made fifteen Marauders. It's not necessarily because of cost or time or anything, it's because there's no need. Also, with the fifteen Marauders and twenty Marines/ten Marauders twenty-five Marines, they're still going to cost more than the Zerglings and take longer to produce. Fifty Zerglings cost 1,250 minerals. Fifteen Marauders and twenty Marines are going to cost 2,125 minerals and 375 gas. Ten Marauders and twenty-five Marines are going to cost 2,000 minerals and 250 gas. Also, the Zerglings will be much quicker to produce.

 

Please note Marauders have no splash what-so-ever and they deal the same damage as a Marine, by the time those 15 Zerglings are slowed and being killed the other 35 will be coming at you from every direction. Remember the Zerg showcase video, at the start. There was many Marines and when the Zerglings got close not that many even died, Zerglings are simply too fast for Marauders to be effective against a mass of them. Zealots is a different story since there are always less of them and they don't move or attack as fast.

Also note that 6 Zerglings are produced at one time from one production building. The maximum of two Marauders can be produced from a single production building. Now if you're gonna mass them you'll need those minerals for more barracks and reactors, while the Zerg are free to mass Zerglings which are more effective ratio wise.
2:1 (2 Zerglings for 25 each, 1 Marine for 50) and while that one Marine micros one Zergling, the other simply goes from behind and its gg Marine. The ratio for Marauders and Zerglings would be like 3.5 or 4:1 since Marauders cost gas and more minerals. So it isn't hard to see how Zerglings would own Marauders, as Blizzard always give examples, Marauders work well against slower units like Banelings and Zealots.

 

I like a lot of Remy's ideas. Making the Thor a support unit with a large, slowing splash attack might actually make the Thor unique (if the Marauder is scrapped) for once, without any overlapping with other units. But, I really like the Marauder, so I don't know if I like the consequences of this change.

I like the Mark Target and Overdose ability, but Itza suggested just what I thought about Overdose. There's no need for the Marine do die at that very moment, it shold just die after the timer. Also, why would the attack have the same cooldown as if normally stimmed when the target receives extra speed? The ability should either give the Marine additional hp or armor, or a much lower attack cooldown.

 

I think people are still misunderstanding my stand or points regarding the Marauder. I don't hate it, I don't think it sucks, and I'm not saying it doesn't work. Anything that works = good, gameplay wise, but only when looking at it one dimensionally. I want the Marauder to be scrapped because I don't think it benefits the entire Terran picture. Just look at how things are right now, it's a mess.

I also don't expect the Medic to "fix" the Reaper. It's the Medivac Dropship that broke it, so it should be "fixed" by removing the Medivac Dropship. Flamethrowing Reapers would be fully functional despite the fact that Medics can't follow them cross-terrain. People should get that obsession out of their heads right now. Base raiding Vultures, Lurkers, High Templars, dropped Tanks, and everything else never worried about having full support from other units, why are people b!tching now? Those units, and now the Reaper, off to raid bases via back door are there on specific missions, it's not a full frontal confrontation. For that, Reapers will get plenty healing from Medics. If you want healing on Reapers on base raids, just drop Medics with them. I never saw the Medic's inability to jump cliffs as a problem, I don't know what whiny asses on b-net forums cried about it.

Let me elaborate on the Mark Target ability to help people better understand how it would work and how to use it. Focus fire from Marines would actually be initiated automatically when used correctly. I think Jon said that the Marine's attack range in SC2 was 6, and let's say Mark Target gives +3 to attack range on the Marked target. If there are many enemy targets positioned 9 matrices away from your Marines, and a Medic Marked a target, then all you Marines would automatically focus fire on that target since that is the only target that the Marines can acquire at that range. Or if an enemy brings in a Shuttle to drop a Zealot on top of your Siege Tanks trying to draw friendly fire only yourself, you Mark the Shuttle from range 9 and beyond, and your Marines would automatically focus fire on it once it comes into range 9, allowing you to efficiently take out the Shuttle. In situations where everything is right up in your face, you would not use the Mark Target ability since you don't even take advantage of your basic attack range of 6 anyway, and manual focus fire or general troop movement would take precedence.

About the Overdose ability, whether or not the target is dead at the time of casting or after 5 seconds is really irrelevant, the difference is only a minor technicality. You still have an effective duration of 5 seconds and a dead unit in the end. The reason why I specify that the unit be "dead" right away is for balance and functionality. The important things are that you definitely lose the unit regardless of outcome, and that the ability can be useful on Marines that are about to die. The drug basically puts a unit on berserk mode allowing it to live through any damage and punishment for 5 seconds. More would be IMBA and less would be rather useless, hence, the reason for not going the HP or armor route.

The reason why I suggest that Overdose grant only an increased movement speed and not attack speed is balance. The Marine is a unit with a relatively low life expectancy, being easily killed. If Overdose effectively quadruples a Marine's damage output, you're then faced with the problem that it may often be beneficial to just indiscriminately Overdose your Marines in full on battles since you're likely to get equal or greater total damage output from each Marine anyway.

@ Zeratul, I'm not even gonna get into the gameplay VS lore argument with you, but it's just plain silly to want to dictate game design with lore. Do you think SC will go down in history after many years because it has a great story? No, it'll be remembered as a game with kick ass gameplay and good balance, good story would only be gravy on top of all that.

Much of what you say don't make much sense anyway. You are proclaiming the Thor's lore as how you want it, not what it really is. The lore behind Thor will be whatever it ends up as when the game is released. You think a new unit or mechanic is introduced because it was written into the story of SC? I seriously doubt it. The story is written in for whatever unit because it is introduced as a new gameplay element, please understand the priorities.

And what's this business about how a direct hitting grenade can slow enemies but not the Thor blanket bombarding an area with its many guns? Who decided that? The ammunition used in Concussive Barrage could be explained as being explosive rounds that throw off shrapnel everywhere, anything can be made up. Maybe it doesn't make sense to you, but to me, it makes more sense than the building-sized Thor specifically targeting individual Zerglings with its huge guns. But whatever, I don't care for lore much, so long as it isn't absolutely absurd in relation to the rest of SC, which, is already pretty absurd.

@ Hex, I don't really care to get too much into the whole 'how to keep your troops from dying' thing with you, as it was never meant to be a "you are wrong" argument. But "there are three..." is a definitive statement, which is why I chose to comment.

I want to point out though, that healing with Medics is more of a macro thing instead of a micro thing. It is more important to produce a good ratio of Medics to Marines(or whatever else) than it is to directly control healing, as Heal is automatic and does not stack. Although Heal comes in the form of an ability, it is somewhat deceiving, and you need to think of it more as a general unit mechanic. Repairing a bunker under FF with many SCVs contrasts this, as it is an example of micro over macro when it comes to healing. So you saying a "player will always pretty much have the greatest control over healing" isn't entirely accurate, at least not in SC.

You also can't water things down with blanket statements just because the enemy can do the same, or there would be no point in anything. As you can't really say that if both of you are healing then no one is healing. Also, killing them before they kill you is the Terran business model, just because the enemy wishes to do the same doesn't change that fact. By contrast, the Zerg is often about killing them while killing some of my own, and Protoss has been more about resilience. But again, since I was never really pointing out that you were wrong, but merely pointing out that what you said was not all inclusive, there really is no argument.

 

Its because Reapers are pretty flimsy but yea I've never pictured the Reapers being used with Medics on a raid until recently when people raised the 'issue'.
Why not just leave some Medics around and when the raid gets to itnense, they simply jump down, heal and fly back in their with full health and mines.
Flame throwing reapers would work well, but that means no more Jackal. I remember everyone wanted the Firebat and Reaper to be combined.

 

Heal doesn't work that way and you should know that. Marines have very small healthpools and when they start taking damage... they die. There's no time to retreat and heal a 40 hp Marine. The Medics need to stay and heal them all the time, it's like a buff that stops working as soon as they stop healing. It would be even worse for the flimsy Reapers. A Reaper taking damage is already dead.

 

You're right. But in my head it was a scenario where you jump up their, throw some mines, recieve a little light fire and jump back down.