New Infested Terran Model!

I don't know how you can't see the difference. For a terran unit you need a Terran race, for an infested terran* you need a Terran and a Zerg race. What Blizzard did here was remove the Terran part being required, which is nonsense. You can't change what you don't already have.

* the current one with the powersuit and armament

 

The involvement of the Terran race is meaningless if the physical humans are spontaneously generating inside buildings, just as the Infested Marines are in the Infestor. With Protoss, they're physically warped in from another location. With Zerg, they're physically bred. The problem with the Infester is that the Infested Marines come from nowhere, but that's exactly the same as the Marines produced from Terran Barracks.

 

great, you've ruined the terran race for me. what has been said can't be unsaid. >=\

 

I always thought the Terrans had an underground tunnel network all over any planet they have a base on. And as we know any SC map is not the entire planet just a tiny section of it. And to me part of the building a Terran building process is also connecting their underground tunnel system to their new building. And with the relatively small area the SC maps are it's plausable for the Terrans to have a tinnel network all over that map area.

And they use the tunnels to ship personel and raw materals to the new buildings and the unit is built/outfitted in the new building. I know it's really not SC lore but it's how I make sense of marines just appearing from a building.

 

The barracs acts as a staging phase for off-world cons to be refitted as marines. It is cheaper to produce the suits and necessary support infrastructure on-world and then fly in the human occupants.

Blizzard does not show us the dropships landing with cons or the transports supplying the barracks with conscripts, because there's just too much to show. Conceptually however there is no problem.

However, an Infestor is an entirely different matter, as it is entirely created from scratch on-screen. That would require the larva to contain not only the human genetic information, but the information to recreate the entire marine suit that by the way is also falling to pieces, which is ineffective and pointless.

So yeah, big conceptual problem.

The way I see it, the original building infestation mechanic was removed due to the fact that it would require infested protoss, a big lore no-no so far. Infested marines was a way for the infestor to still actually infest something at all, but its inconsistent as people have pointed out. I'd remake building infestation to constantly spawn mantalings, or perhaps some larvae. Infested terrans will have to remain in single player, as balance would require for protoss to be infestable as well.

 

@ the8thark. Even Char, Aiur, Shakuras, or planets/moons that they've newly landed on? I could understand a complete underground network for planets they've already got control of, though even then it's still a bit of a stretch for the less developed planets, but anything more than that's more an excuse than an explanation.

@ Sueco. So the fact that Blizzard doesn't show us dropships or transports is conceptually fine, but the fact that they don't show us Infestors consuming Marines is conceptually inexcusable? Yes, we do see the Infestor being produced from scratch on screen, but the exact same thing goes for the Barracks and Marines. You can't excuse one unseen detail but object to another. As for there being circumstances were consuming Marines would be impossible in terms of continuity, such as Zerg versus Protoss, the same problem still applies for Terran when it's been impossible for them to call in Dropships and transports, and that's in the campaign, where lore actually matters. In terms of the actual multiplayer game, gameplay comes first.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the lore behind it is that the Infestor consumes marines and other Terrans, preserves the body structure within their own bodies, infests it, and then summons the newly infested Terran on to the battlefield.

 

To ItzaHexGor:

Yes I agree it's a pretty week explanation for it all. But it's better then just saying they just magically appear there. I really think this is something Blizzard to address, this part of their SC2 lore.

 

Yes because while I'm prepared to accept a reduction details in the complexity of how they show terran bases for the sake of gameplay, i find it hard to accept that the infestor i made a minute ago somehow snuck away and swallowed 5 marines without me noticing. On a protoss match.

 

@ Sueco. You find it hard to accept a newly built Infestor can be housing five Infested Marines in a Zerg versus Protoss match, but would you blink an eyelid if your last surviving SCV built a last Barracks that started producing Marines? No matter what way you look at it, units are spontaneously generating in both cases. Otherwise you're simply choosing to accept one example of spontaneous generation but are blatantly objecting to another.

@ the8thark. I really don't think lore is that important in the multiplayer aspect of the game, because not only is there always going to be some situation that can break it, but because lore specifically relates to the campaign anyway. Multiplayer is simply where you take the units and mechanics of each race and play an even match. Lore's already broken in multiplayer anyway. Why are all the teams perfectly matched? We've been told, lore-wise, that Protoss are able to simply incinerate planets. Why are all the races on the teams they're on? Nothing lore-wise would support a four-way team free-for-all of ZTP v ZTP v ZTP v ZTP. It's obvious that completely random stuff shouldn't just occur, for the same of gameplay, but I'd hardly count spawning Infested Marines as completely random.

And a question. Who says the Infested Marines start in the Infestor? If a flimsy explanation that violates everything actually seen in the game is enough to support Marines not spontaneously generating in Barracks, why can't it be said that after previously over-running the Terran, the Zerg've stored 'captive' Marines in the Hatchery. Once an Infestor's been produced, it consumes the Marines directly from the Hatchery, infests them, and spits them out onto the battlefield. Seems solid to me. Or as solid as it needs to be to at least match the lore behind the Barracks which, despite being contradicted by looking at the game, is perfectly acceptable, for some reason.

 

To ItzaHexGor.

Just because the Protoss can destroy planets, doesn't mean they always have their super weapon at hand. Also the protoss might not want to destroy planets at every turn. Their honor and ways might dictate. And they might feel more honour in besting their enemies in fair combat rather then a one shot kills the entire enemies planet.

And yes in most games lore is broken in multiplayer. It only needs to be solid in Single player. Which I'm sure Blizzard will do.

And your explanation for the infested terrans, so you're saying thewy will take a sizable number of hostaged terran marines still in their suits accross the galaxy. So when they land on a new planet they can infest it and infestthe hostaged marines when they need them? I think it's much more plausable to say they infested the marines on site. And the infested marines still in suit travel with the zerg over the galaxy. Just like all the other zerg. ready to be used on the new planet.

And no the marines just appearing in the barracks is not acceptable to me. I just tried to make sence of it. Just as you tried to make sense of the lore behind the infested terrans.

 

About the Protoss destroying planets, basically they resort to that when it's overrun. Logically it'd be impossible to defeat Protoss, lore-wise, as they'd defeat you honourably, or purge the world when the battle was lost. Though the whole honour thing seems a little shaky when we've seen them use such devastating weaponry on defenceless and unaggressive Terran mining ships. Regardless, it's been established that lore shouldn't be an issue in multiplayer.

And if you think it's more plausible that the Marines are infested on site, then so be it. It really doesn't affect the explanation. The point is, it's possible. Even for Zerg versus Protoss matches.

 

Wouldn't the marines commit suicide before taken captive by the Zerg?

 

They didn't before. Besides, hardly matters if the organism takes over the powersuit.

 

Agreed that gameplay comes first, but there are myriads of ways to find clever mechanics that are not so weak in lore. There is a difference between choosing what to show or not to show regarding the details of a protoss or terran base, and saying that the swarm now travels with bunches of infested terrans that make sub-par soldiers who last a short time and can be used by the infestor. Just hatching zerglings would make infinitely more sense from an effectiveness point of view, which is what the zerg are all about. There are much cooler things that could be done with an infestation mechanic than essentially creating a few improved broodlings.

I understand you wanting to play the devil's (or blizzard's) advocate but there's no way around the fact that spawn infested terrans is an uninspired mechanic that makes little sense and is weak in lore.

 

You've really got to stop holding onto the illusion that the Terran's production of units is infallible. There is literally no difference between the spontaneous generation involved in making Infested Marines and the spontaneous generation involved in producing regular Marines. Thinking otherwise is just a double standard that you're using to attack an ability that you're obviously not a fan of.

In terms of the actual mechanics, as far as both StarCraft2 and the Zerg army goes, it's a pretty perfect ability for them to have. Simple, and nothing that's never been seen before, but pretty perfect. Firstly, it's new to StarCraft, or at the very least if I'm having some mental blank, it's hardly a commonly seen mechanic, simply being able to 'summon' new units. Secondly, it fits seemlessly in with the Zerg. Zerg are almost exclusively about masses of weaker numbers, and nothing really captures that better than being able to constantly replenish your front line from underground mobile menaces. Thirdly, seeing as the Infested Marines naturally travel within the organism that is the Infestor, being stored within a Hatchery for potential use is hardly that much of a stretch to the imagination. Especially when 'Marines are drop podded into the Barracks, it's just that Blizzard never shows or mentions the drop pods' apparently isn't a stretch. As for storing units for a situation like that, regardless of strength, do you really think the Zerg mind would have the whole 'these are just sub-par soldiers who last for a short time' attitude? Or do you think they would throw absolutely everything they possibly can at the enemy, using brute force, sheer numbers and even terror as a weapon against their opponents, just as they do with Broodlings, Zerglings, Changelings and everything? Leaving behind a resource such as Infested Terran would be like Zerg deciding to invade Aiur without using Zerglings. It makes no sense.

So overall, it may not be the most inspired mechanic, but it doesn't have to to suit its purpose. Furthermore it's no weaker in lore than any of the bar standards we've seen before.

 

There IS a difference. What you call spontaneous generation of marines is a simplification. The simplification that involves infestors spawning infested marines is an order of magnitude larger, and therefore that much harder to believe. You could argue for the introduction of one-legged ninjas based on a liberal interpretation of lore. It'd still be a bad idea. It'd still destroy immersion which is paramount in making a believable universe. The same kind of fail applies to this.

So yeah. No. But hey we're all entitled to our opinion. Its all in the hands of blizz anyway.

 

No no no. You have missed the point I was trying to make. I am just trying to say that in single player there should be a explanation in the lore for these things. You and I and many others made up our own lore to make sense of it all. And that's cool. I know multiplayer is just for fun/pro games and lore does not hold there.

But for single player there should be a lore with no major holes in it. And for me, saying It's all ok just how it is to make gameplay more balanced is just an excuse. Blizzard can make a lore with no holes and balanced gameplay for single player. Whether they will do this will be seen in beta/final release I guess.

 

Sueco. If lifeforms spawning inside metal is a simplification, how is metal spawning inside lifeforms any different? There's no order of magnitude, you're just used to one and not the other. With tonnes of RTS's there are countless examples of how unit-producing buildings simply 'create' or 'spawn' their units from nothing. While this is mostly covered in StarCraft, with the Protoss being Warped-In and Zerg being bred, the Infestor is just another example of this, so is no more 'wrong' than any Terran production, and so long as pseudo-logic is enough to bridge the gap for Terran, saying that there's an underground network or unseen APC's or drop pods delivering the people to and from the Command Centre and whatnot, saying the Hatchery may contain a few ensnared Terran victims is hardly a stretch of the imagination.

@ the8thark. I see what you're saying, but I think it's a little early to say what suits, lore-wise, for single-player. Especially for Zerg, as we've been told each race will be done in a different style. I believe Zerg's more RTS focused so we don't know how that will affect the production of an army or anything. And I'd presume that any Zerg versus Protoss, without any further development of the Infested Marine lore, spawning Infested Terran would be disabled.

 

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