New Colossus Attack

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now it has to shoot twice to take around 4 to 7 out

noone here knows how powerful this new attack is...we would have to wait and see until karune says something..
but im still with you guys...i hate this hew attack.

 

I don't see why some are saying that this will take out swarmed units faster. The old, better Colossus attack swept across units. As soon as one was destroyed, it moved to the next. This was why it was good against swarmed units, because it had such a concentrated attack that it killed small units so quickly, it moved onto the next one almost instantaneously. This was an awesome and completely unique way of dealing with massed units without resorting to area of effect attacks.
Not only does this attack look completely ineffective graphics-wise (because only half the weaponry is firing at a time) but here is an explanation of why it's weaker:
Let's just say that one attack from the old Colossus dealt the exact same amount of damage as the new Colossus. Remember. these statistics will be made up, but they will be constant throughout the example so won't effect the outcome. Here goes. Just say that both attacks will deal 100 damage and last 5 seconds. That's 20 damage per second. Let's also say that Zerglings have 20 health. That means that in one attack, under ideal conditions for both old and new Colossus, they will kill 5 Zerglings. Now, the old Colossus attack will kill 1 Zergling every 1 second, because its attack sweeps across them, one by one. However, the new Colossus will kill 5 Zerglings after 5 seconds because it's damage is spread out across the Zerglings. This averages out to be the same, but it kills them all at once instead of one by one. So far, both are equal. However, the change occurs when factoring in the Zerglings' attacks. Let's just say that Zerglings deal 10 damage per second, and see how things pan out.
With the old Colossus, after one second, each of the Zerglings will have attacked, and it will have killed one of them. After the first second, it's taken 50 damage and will have dealt 20, killing a Zergling. After another second has passed, the remaining 4 will have attacked again, this time dealing 40 damage. The Colossus will have also killed another Zergling, and there will be 3 remaining. After 2 seconds, the Colossus will have taken 90 damage, and killed two Zerglings. After 1 more second, the Colossus would have taken an extra 30 damage, from the 3 remaining Zerglings and killed another. In total, it's now taken 120 damage and killed 3. Another second passes and it takes 20 damage from the remaining 2 Zerglings, and killed all but one. In total, it's taken 140 damage and will have one Zergling left. After the full 5 seconds, all the Zerglings will have been killed and the Colossus would have taken 150 damage.
So what about the new Colossus? It's in the exact same scenario, except deals a total of 100 damage per 5 seconds over an area, and it's not directed at a single unit. The damage will split between the 5 Zerglings. After 1 second, it will have taken 50 damage, which is exactly the same as the old Colossus at the moment, but it will not have killed one of the Zerglings. Instead it will have dealt 20 damage to each of them, reducing them all to 80% health. After another second has passed, it will have taken a total of 100 damage, which is 10 more than the old Colossus, and still won't have killed any Zerglings, but will have reduced them all to 60% health. After another second, it'll have taken 150 damage, which is 30 more than the old Colossus at this stage, but there are still 5 Zerglings on 40% health. Another second and it's taken 200 damage, being 60 more than the old one, and have reduced all the Zerglings to 20%. Finally, after five seconds, it'll have killed all the Zerglings, but will have taken a whopping 250 damage. That's 100 more than what the old Colossus would have taken.
The reason for this is that the line of concentrated fire kills each Zergling one by one. Each time a Zergling is killed, their total damage per second is reduced. With spread out fire, even though it kills them all in the exact same amount of time, all Zerglings are able to attack right up until the end, meaning that they will always be dealing their maximum damage per second. So, for those of you who say that the new attack is more effective than the old one because it deals damage to an area, think again. I'll be happy to explain certain parts if anyone doesn't understand. All you have to do is ask.

 

^ I understand your logic there, but it's not like the fan attack will only do 4 damage across the line (assuming one fire of the fan a second, it would take 4 damage each time to kill a 20hp zergling) it is more realistic that the fan attack will be able to kill any low hitpoint unit (zerglings, marines) in about 2-3 shots, and the damage will be between 25-35 over the fan area.

The fan doesn't take out lots of spread out units, its takes out packed up groups of them because it is AOE. Look you guys keep referring to a video that was made over 6 months ago with a meatshield of zealots, I'm sure some changes were made to the damage of the colossus. It might have been too powerful in its original form, and the only option to keep it effective was to change its attack type. Watch all the videos, in one there are 2 colossus that get taken out by like 5 hydralisks because they are all spread out. This is MEANT to the the weakness of the colossus. This isn't much of a weakness for a unit with a direct attack that was already fairly similar to the warp ray.
Another one of the things that needs to be realized is that the colossi are taking the position of the reaver for a reason, back line fire power support. Not to mention you don't want a unit as expensive as the colossus taking the brunt of the fire power from the opposing force.

 

I don't think it was really similar to warp ray. One of old colossus' strong points was sweeping through numbers of small units like zerglings with ease, which is also warp ray's weak point

 

The old Colossus simply is win because it had multiple functions which different when the Colosuss was with a certain unit or more of its own.
1 Colossus will sweep thru and kill enemy units and as the beam gets stronger in the 6 seconds it lasts it will cut thru them nicely. Now this allows players to spread their forces out to evade the beam, thus giving a nice dynamic.
5 Colossus would be extremely effective against armored units and buildings but the costs equal up to the damage output.

With the new attack its simply a .8 second burst of fire then cool down, which doesn't have any attributes or anything its just a simply attack. Tell me how this will make the game more dynamic and interesting?

 

Sometimes balance overcomes the necessity for a "dynamic and interesting" game. Even though the warp ray isn't good against small units, it is still the same firing mechanic, focused beam, as the colossus. I don't think that the old colossus beam increased in damage over time, I'm pretty sure it was just constant.

 

Regardless, if the Colossus is dealing damage to a large area, its attack damage would have to be reduced. As it's reduced, it'll be dealing consistent damage across multiple units instead of dealing concentrated damage to each unit one by one, meaning that the group will retain their maximum damage per second for longer.
Also, remember that these were under ideal conditions. The new Colossus wouldn't always be able to fire at a horizontal line of swarmed units, but it doesn't matter if the old Colossus is or isn't able to, because it's still just as effective.
It doesn't matter that both the Warp Ray and Colossus have a similar attack beam, that's like saying that Blizzard needs to change the attack of the Phoenix, Stalker, Immortal, Phase Cannons, Mothership and Interceptors, because they all fire the same plamsa-like projectile, not to mention the Zealot and Dark Templar who both use psionic blades. It's good that the Warp Ray's and Colossus' attacks were similar because they really suited Protoss. The new attack, however, does not.

 

You will need to explain to me why the new attack doesn't fit the protoss...

 

If it did suit the Protoss, why would 21 out of 23 people vote it down?

 

That doesn't mean it doesn't suit the protoss, that just means that they liked the other attack better.

 

Maybe you should read the posts
Also the votes give our points more power.

 

People would like Protoss to have an attack that suits the Protoss. This is why the new attack has been voted down so badly.
Also, sprays always appear weaker than direct beams. Think of those water sprayers with the adjustable nozzles. The jet stream always looks strongly than the mist spray does. The same goes for the Colossus' old and new attacks.

 

I'm sorry but you still haven't answered why it isn't protoss, I just read every post and no one complained about it "not feeling like the protoss" they were either a) upset about it only shooting from one side (wrong), or b) thinking that the other attack was a better attack. I just don't see how it doesn't suit protoss, it is an elegant energy beam that sprays out a lot of damage in a good sized area.

How effective are direct beams though? Anytime you are cleaning windows you use spray to cover the maximum area, a direct beam just wastes your windex.

 

Have you noticed Protoss like to focus their power?
Protoss favour power over speed. The Colossus defies their views or whatever you want to call it, because it fires this weak spread fire which has a long cool down for something as impractical as this.

What I find wrong with it:
1. Doesn't utilize both beams at once meaning less power.
2. Looks cheap, it isn't imposing, not very poweful as you saw from the video.
3. Alters its role and limits possible tactics you could of used when combining units.
4. Can't really choose an exact target, as it goes from left to right very fast meaning the unit is only exposed to the damage for a short period meaning its weak.
5. Works like a shot gun being fired from a distance, it would be strong close up, but the shot spreads no matter what meaning the weak damage of one beam has to be shared out between a number of weaker units, and as the weaker units get more hits on you since your Colosuss isn't cutting thru them it limits its effectivness.

*Tags in ItzaHexGor

 

Your entire argument is based on assumptions, or things that could easily be changed.

The animation could easily be altered to include both beams at once.
Its a LASER, those things really hurt if you get by a military grade one.
Like I said, this is the role that Blizzard meant for it to play.
I am sure that you can choose a target that will be in the center of the fan, and it doesn't just go from left to right, it goes everywhere across the line. Also, the reaver only shot one robot, but that wasn't weak, the carrier has lots of little interceptors, is it weak?
How do you know how the damage works? That is just a ridiculous assumption.

You need to work on your argument skills...

 

Its basic physics and logic, it just depends how you look at it. But whatever you have your views I have my views which are on the same track as most people so its all good. :]
Just look carefully at the video btw and you'll see how ineffective it will be. Just upgrade your observation skills or evolve into an Overseer so you can detect what we are saying.

 

It looks stupid, especillay because it blocks the field if you know what i mean, and a strong attack with splash or AOE would really suit protoss better.
Why should they make many weak when they can make one strong?!?!
Zerg are those who have many weak units (or beams), protoss have big ones!

 

I don't understand how you people can keep calling it a weak beam?! We know nothing about the damage stats that it has!

 

Its called fucking perception.

 

http://www.starcraft2forum.org/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=47&topic=6392.0
OK look at the halfway mark in this video. The colossi are able to quickly and easily decimate the entire mineral line as it tries to escape. At one point when the two attacks cross it instantly kills the worker. That is at least 25 from each colossus. That is anything but weak, especially since it is spread out over a fairly large line.