New Colossus Attack

Word. Just bring back the sweeping beams so we can all rejoice in the magnificent epiphany that is the colossus.

 

Technically speaking, mass carriers and mass bcs counter virtually everything. >.>

*Edit* 555, lol fucking right.

 

Actually, mass Mutalisk, Scout, and Wraith would own any large fleet that only consisted of capital ships. That is if you spot them before they waste your base. lol

 

Mutalisks? Mutalisks are most effective when countering a large group of smaller units so that the glave wurms can bounce as much as possible. And capital ships have lots of armor, every glave wurm bounce will be reduced to almost nothing vs. capital ships.

In SC1, Scourge > Capital, and in SC2 Corruptor > Capital, not Mutalisk.

 

So you're saying 100 Mutalisks can't beat 20 Bcs?

 

Not as fast as 100 Corrupters can corrupt 20 BCs, no.

And by the way, 100 Mutalisks would cost 10 000 mins and 10 000 gas while 20 BC would cost 8 000 minerals and 6 000 gas. Is that a fair fight?

 

Wrong. The old Colossus had a fat laser, which followed units on the move. 20 big lasers from many dirctions on one unit? It wont look good. The small lasers will look better that way becuse they are thinner and they come as one and one.
And there IS possible to make 20 colossus in one game, maybe for a progamer. Have you seen how many seige tanks they can make?

 

I doubt that the old Colossus' attack is like five times as fat as the new attack. The old beams might have been a tad larger, but that doesn't make it cluttered. It makes it defined. The new Colossus' beam takes up a much larger space. That's already been shown with kuvasz's image. There are too many beams going in too many directions making it look messy, inaccurate and clustered.
Also, you're saying that having twenty old lasers firing at one unit wouldn't work, but imagine having fifty plus new beams firing at one unit. Which one would be worse? The old beams would all look neat and accurate as they would all hit the unit directly and precisely, vaporising it instantly. The new beams would be going every which way looking disorganised, uncoordinated and inexperienced. They would still kill the unit relatively quickly, but not as quickly as the twenty old beams.
Lastly, and just quickly, the diagram of the new Colossus' clustered beams should actually be even more clustered. kuvasz, you left out two beams from the middle attack.

 

Give me a break, it was almost midnight And I think the current attack has 5 beams per Colossus and I only put 4. What else is there... yeah my winter terrain kind of lacks doodads. The point is clear though - it has got to go.

 

Of course they made the current attack stronger than it should be but when you look at it from a lore point of view it goes against Protoss lore, it also clutters up the screen which Blizzard want to reduce. So why they came up with this now I have no idea but I really hope they change it back as it does make more sense to have the single beams.
I think this was a reation where people say they want it to actually sweep back and fourth but what Blizzard has done is added extra beams which do a litte more damage before they dissipate.
And yes, it has to go.

 

Haha, that made me laugh. I wasn't having a go or anything, just mentioning that it's actually even more clustered than that.
I definitely agree that it has to go. It's far too messy, inaccurate and clustered making the Protoss look disorganised, uncoordinated and inexperienced, when in reality, they're supposed to be the polar opposite. If it doesn't go, before playing any game involving Protoss I'm either going to change its attack animation/projectile in the Map Editor or download an appropriate mod.

 

With the AoE attack its just going to be a mess when you have more then 5 colossi on screen. Might as well give it the acurate twin thermal lances, it would make the protoss loo some what cordinated now.

 

i really cant get how most people regard the new colossus attack as a change in visual graphics, and most people who want the old beam attack back is because it "looks cooler"!! have you no regards to the gameplay whatsoever?? Didn't you even consider that they'r doing this for balance issues??
The disappearance of the reaver left a very large gap in the protoss army that relied on firepower to break numbers because they are always outnumbered...the old colossus attack, while i will agree it looked "cool", didn't give sufficient burst damage...didnt u c in the first video how the banelings just ate up the colossus?? how would you have stopped an army of banelings marching towards you with thye sweeping beam attack???
now with the new attack there may still be hope. it's not still as effective as the reaver's attack, but i think this is because the colossus has much more armor than the late reaver...i personally prefer more firepower, but they just had their minds set on putting the colossus and taking out the reaver...ok, as most guys here always say, this is not starcraft in 3d, although i find that would be the best solution to make a seqeul to a prefectly balanced game...just put a new campagin, new graphics, and some new mechanics, or maybe not even...
Anyway...the point is, you have to be pretty sure that the change in the colossus attack is to balance the game, nothing more..and still nothing is final...so please stop complaining about everything and let Blizzard do their work!!

 

necro

FOR GOD AND HEAVEN SAKE THANK YOU! atleast some one else is getting the picture. You people just dont get it. Let me try and break it down for you lets say theres a colossus fighting 1 ultralisk and 2 zerglings. it shoots the first thing it sees, the ultralisk. By the time the old colossus gets finished with the ultralisk to kill the 2 zerglings they would of cracked up more dmg on the colossus then that 1 ultalisk will. Big units hold up the colossus from doing its job! Killing small units. look at the reaver. it god everything in one shot. If you only have the colossus shooting one thing its not doing its job in a fight agenst many enemys. The new colossus is like reaver that can walk over walls and dosent have to buy its attack. The new colossus is a big upgrade.

and u think the old colossus with a constand beam is going to be any better to see around??? atleast with the new colossus there time to see in between the attacks unlike the old colossus.

Personaly i think the colossus should get an aupgrade that switches it from the old attack to the new attack. the upgrade shouldnt coast alot either. it should be one of the cheepist upgrades in the game.

 

thats right i2new...this is another point adding to the obligation of changing the colossus attack to the new spread beam attack...

 

i was on this thred earlyer but i just gave up lookingat it cause alot of the people that comment on it have never played the game and dont have enough common sence to relize this is a fast moving mass unit game and the colossus's old attack was not fast enough. dont get my wrong its old attack was cool but it wouldnt be enough. The slash attack is hitting more then one unit. Come on how could any 1 disagree with killing extra units???

 

Assuming the Colossus's staying power is constant and its cost is constant then both versions of the Colossus's attack should kill the same number of the same kind of units if its balanced correct? The only difference is the way those units are killed.

necro we don't know any actual numbers about the current Colossus or the most balanced version of the old Colossus, so how can you say any one attack is completely better than the other? You can't. All we can do at the moment is give our opinion on what we think looks the best (which is important, balance only matters in the base game) and what mechanic we like the most (whether our reasons are balance based or lore based). The majority thinks the old attack is the better of the 2, its as simple as that.

You guys are free to express your opinions and try and convert the majority to your point of view, but just because people disagree with you doesn't make their opinion any less valid. i2new I find it very amusing that you say people's opinions are invalid when they haven't played the game and you obviously haven't played it either (very few people have) so your opinion must be invalid right? I also find it very amusing that you say anyone that disagrees with you doesn't have any common sense because you are obviously very lacking in that area if you think attacking people will convert them to your point of view.

Finally anything can balanced if enough effort is put into it, so both attacks are viable. I personally prefer the original for a number of reasons but that's just my opinion.

 

The new attack was obviously an attempt at giving the player a chance to dance/attack as they called it. It was a response to the community for asking for more oportunities to micro with units.

I still like the old way attack better, because it was cooler. The new one just seems lame. I think it would be cool if the collossus had two independant, sweeping beams. It would also be a nice game mechanic if target firing would focus both of the beams, while an attack-move would force a general sweeping attack of the highest priority unit or whatever.

 

Why did so many people voted for the sweeping beam? Its absolutely and uterly useless except for the fact that it looks better (which is supposed to be fixed anyways).

Colossus is supposed to be AoE unit, replacement for Reaver. Single beam is hardly any aoe. Youre wasting too much damage going around with the beam and focusing on single targets, the spread out beam is the true AoE - almost instant, wide volley of amplified light by stimulated emission of radiation which stacks up well if you have multiple colossus like Jon said.

Argument: "I want the old one back beacause the new one looks lame and the old one was waaay cooler" fails when talking about SCII. SCII is about gameplay remember? About mechanics? And as I said they promised to enhance the animation somehow.

edit: What happened to my signature???

 

There is no rule which states the Colossus is the Reavers direct replacement. If Protoss wanted an AoE unit they'd upgrade the Reaver.

Protoss is all about raw power, as we all know Protoss beats all on a 1:1 ratio. Having spread fire isn't Protoss style as if you look at all their past and mostly present units, they all have strong focused fire attackes. If you wanted to deal AoE, Psi Storm was the best thing for them and I think it should stay as the best thing for them.
I've just realized the Colossus is like a horizontal Psi Storm which doesn't require mana...

Although, the animation looks sucky, the mechanic of it seems even more sucky which is what I've focused on if you read my earlier posts.
Before they had long range and dealt a lot of damage to single targets allowing the beam to slice thru multiple units if choosen correctly, now they have simplified any possible micro and made the beam automatic sweep around which is a downgrade IMO.

I would rather maximize the effects of the beam by correct positioning and attack order.
Now the way to maximize the Colossi is to have groups off them which obviously limits them, just like a single Carrier was pretty much useless.
Units, especially Protoss ones, should be useful in someway by them selfs, but obviously the Colossus would get owned by its self if the damage output was correct and balanced.

Spray fire-
Pros:
In groups it owns.
Works well agains't weak clustered units.
Cons:
You have to work out the damage output to unit distribution to get decent effects.
Less microble as opposed to the single beam which you had full control over.
Damage spread out in a definite area meaning its useless against single targets.
If attacked from multiple directions the spread fire wastes too much energy on single targets.
Shorter range; if its range is still long then thats even worse as the spray will widen. Tanks will rape it 9000 times
Not accurate. Protoss seem to me to be all about effeciency. Wasting energy isn't effecient

Focused fire-
Pros:
Full control over damage distrubution, allowing better micro tactics.
Extended version of the spray fire as the strong beam would still sweep through many units careless enough to be in the immidiate 6 second line of fire.
Longer range; works with the 6 second firing time as when units try to get in range they get ripped up doing so, also works good with high elevation.
Balanced since units areable evade the powerful beam by different formations allowing more dynamic gameplay around the Colossus.
Works good 1:1 or against groups and in groups.
Nice Roach counter.
Cons:
Can be evaded with good micro; but its part of balance so its ok.

If you want me to elaborate on any of the points, I'll gladly do so :]