Mothership is a super unit again.

I don't know, in my opinion I always thought, screw Lore first get the balance done then figure out the Lore part of the game. Otherwise you get games that rely on their storyline and not on game play which is why a huge amount games now a days don't have staying power as much as they used to.

 

True but if SC1 was just a bunch of chess pieces flying around would it be nearly as entertaining, would there even be a "pro" league? You cannot ignore lore and cool ideas or you are going to alienate a part of your fan base and really the most loyal part of your fan base because pros can always find a equally competitive game.

Think about this if you screw the lore what are a you balancing a flying brick? Imagine that, there are 3 races the Bricks which there a fewer of but they are really powerful, the stones a medium race that relies on range, and the pebbles the swarmers? That sounds way more interesting then what we have now right?

And your vaunted balance what difference does it make to your average gamer or UMS player or story buff?

Starcraft didn't start off being very well balanced it just looked cool and the balance came later which is what granted it, its replayability along with some help from the UMS community of course.

Either way what does this discussion have to do with the Mothership?

 

Hell yeah. Chess has been around for longer then most know and it has no story to it but because it a well made game it will be around for long periods of time. I doubt anyone in the top leagues gives a crap how the storyline is when they are ramming 50 dragoons down someone's throat.

Only sort of. Not too many games come out as well-balanced as Starcraft has.

Lore doesn't get rid of the images or the graphics or the strategy involved. Lore justs adds a reason as to why dragoons are around or whatever. Lore adds no gameplay value in multiplayer matches. And single player only goes for so long.

Not sure what story buff means but I do know that balance is everything to everyone. If the game was unbalanced people would be leaving a lot sooner then what they have been. For instance, if Mutas did 50 damage per hit but still bounced to everything AND bounced more then they do know how do you think the gameplay would be? If this was the only change from what we have now, zerg would be the most popular race and a decent number of people would leave because they couldn't use toss or terran and be just as successful.

Nothing, it is just I am tired of all the "well we could balance this perfectly but it would intersect with Lore" crap posts I keep seeing on this forum. Who cares if the lore says something if the game can be made perfect if we ignore the Lore.

 

Blizzard right now is developing the gameplay at the same time as the lore. Don't worry - balance will always come first. I'm sure they won't have any problem changing some lore around to match the gameplay. We can have the best of both worlds, and I'm positive Starcraft II will be as great a game as the original (both lore-wise and game-wise)!

 

Without the visuals without the story idea of 3 constantly warring races no one would have played Starcraft in the first place, Blizzard would have dropped the game like a stone before the balance even came close to what it is now.

Also there is always another game, it may not be as intune with certain people as another game but there is always another game.

Lore is the idea behind of every unit. Lore comes first in the creation process, you can't balance something you know nothing about. Without lore you wouldn't have Dragoons or Marines all you would have is Ranged unit 1 and Ranged unit 2. You don't honestly believe the first part of the unit creation process is deciding a units role do you?  Lore is what makes the game Starcraft instead of Generic RTS 7.

Bullshit. You know how I know that is bullshit, because I don't care about balance, everyone who makes their own maps where they modify the unit stats doesn't care about the balance of the original game, everyone who builds a campaign just for the sake of creating a story doesn't care about the balance of the base game. Everyone who buys the game and plays through it just for the story (Story buffs: people who buy the books and want to know the lore behind everything but really care about gameplay.) doesn't care about percision balance for the base game all they care it about is playing through a cool story.

 
I do. Thats one. The millions of people who buy this SC2 "because it looks cool" can also be added to that. Anyone who liked SC1 for the story, cares if it is potentially injured in the name of baance. You say your tired of the people who say "well we could balance this perfectly but it would intersect with Lore", well I am tired of the people who say,"Balance is all that matters." 

@niner balance doesn't always come first, $$$ come first, they always have and always will, if it means just settling for good balance istead of perfect balance, to get more $$$, don't expect Blizzard to hesitate.

 

True enough.

My point is mainly that BOTH are important elements of the game, so Blizzard won't skimp on either. This will satisfy the most people; a.k.a. cash money.

 

Agreed. I am just pointing out why people bought SC in the first place and why a lot of people will buy SC2.

I want the game to be balanced because I do also enjoy just playing the base game. But balance is what should be sacrificed for good lore, not the other way around, because the game will become balanced eventually no matter how unbalanced it begins, because Blizzard will keep updating it. But the lore is something that you have to get right the first time because you look a lot more idiotic going back saying oops the Protoss can't actually warp people across the map instead of saying oops this unit was a little stronger than expected lets lower its attack by 2 points and increase its cost by 50 mins.

 

I see Ace_Bear likes balance more and LordKerwyn likes story more. I like them both, for one I like a good story and starcraft is pretty unique, and the multiplayer balance was eventually made top-notch. For the UMS lovers, the map editor was very good for its day and age, you could create a lot of stuff besides just maps based on starcraft. I loved blizzard RTS games for their awesome map editors, warcraft 3 especially since you could create ANY type of game granted that you had the talent and knowledge to do so. But I think the multiplayer balance was what made starcraft so successful in the long run, theres only so much of the story you can get into and speculate before there is nothing left . . . until a sequel is made ^_^

But yeah, starcraft is a perfect pyramid . . . great story, great balance, and a great map editor that lets you manipulate the game how you see fit.

 

So many fallacies and broad assumptions my head is just swimming. Screw it, you win. My head hurts to much to deal with that mess.

 

Errr... Late to the seen, I was there when they said it wasn't a Super Unit though! I hope this hasn't changed again since then.

I love the Mothership was a super unit, a massable Mothership would suck. Good 'ol Blizzard, doing things right since 1998.

 

It's 'super unit' status whas changed shortly after the demo. It allowed you to build multiple MS and scrapped the black hole ability for a cloaking spell. Also, the planet cracker was toned down to be less effective.

Now, you can only build a single MS again. But it's abilities and effectiveness remains the same as it's non-superunit counterpart.

 

Why does it have to be a super unit, its just a very powerful unit and its power equals up to its cost of production and upgrades. Its just lots of power in a controlled form.

 

It's not a 'super unit' as it was originally described (super strong spells and armor). They just gave it the one-limit back because it overlapped with the carrier way too much.

 

IMO it should be a super unit (even thought it overlaps with the queen, another problem...), but a caster (which also overlaps with the queen). OK conclusion. Remove the MS, then everything is fixed.

 

It doesn't overlap with the Queen. the Mothership is primarily for destruction. The Queen lore wise and gameplay ways looks after the Broods and ensures each base runs smoothly.
In ants and termites queens are the bases of their society.
In Sc, Kerrigan is the basis of the Zerg now and she is the Queen. Does the Queen not make sense now? its like having a Kerrigan in every Zerg brood.

 

I think Queens will be the new cerebrates in that regard

 

Zergalicious i ment that it should be a Superunitcaster, in which state i think it would overlap a bit atleast. I know my post was messed up sorry.

 

Well actually since the Mothership came first the new Queen would overlap with the Mothership, and the Queen should be removed. But there really is no overlap besides in the most general way, even then the Queen is a defensive unit the Mothership is an offensive unit. So really, neither should be modified based on potential overlap with the other.

 

It was realeased to the community first LordKerwyn!
Yeah when i think more about it, you right, no overlap at all.

 

Queen overlaps with mothership?
hmm...

Oh noes! We gotta remove zergling, it's basic melee unit like zealot!!

@post below:
I've read that. I was commenting in general about people saying that the two overlap