Most powerful unit?

Kerwyn, if you still have that test map. Test a fully upgraded carrier vs a fully upgraded bc. I've always thought it was BC that would win, but the carriers are a little easier to micro around.

 

This debate was the reason for the test map's creation dark. Basicly the Carrier loses in a straight up fight but the Carrier can be microed to beat the Battlecruiser (even assuming equal skill amongst the players). In essence the Battlecruiser wins if you compare the visible numbers, but when you add in the numbers not shown (range, speed, and aceleration) the Carrier wins.

EDIT: According to TL the Interceptors cooldown is aprosimately 37. Which means with 8 Interceptors the Carrier has the best dps scaling in the game (besides the Reaver which only has 1 upgrade level). At +0 the Carrier (with 8 Interceptors) has 1.08108108 DpC, at +3 it has 1.72972973 DpC.

 

I do think you're overcomplicating it. Niceshades was not interested in supply, cost, micro, or anything beyond raw unit stats. Obviously there isn't much point in discussing things like this when you take into account the whole of SC, but he was interested in a very narrowed down, inaccurate but demonstrative aspect. Which means the last couple of posts are spam and should be penalised

 

With the penalized minerals going to you no doubt.

DpC?

 

I'd say the Dark Archon is the strongest single unit in the game 1V1 for the reason of having the single most devastating skill in the whole universe.

Mind Control - even if the target unit has no mind, no problem the dark archon can manipulate even pure mechanical units such as the reaver as demonstrated in brood war... lol

 

It is the most "influential" unit in the game. I agree. But I don't think powerful should be used for it.

 

I hate how they got rid of the Dark Archon and Mind control along with it in Starcraft 2! They keep getting rid of the bestest abilities, e.g. Arbiters Cloaking, Mind control...

 

Not totally....

Arbiters cloaking was even further enhanced by the mothership adding structures to enable cloaking in its field. And MC is quite nerfed in terms of duration as the infestor skill neural parasite w/c temporarily takes control of the targeted unit for a brief amount of time. So technically they are still there.

*** By most powerful unit are we talking here about a single unit or an air unit that is controlled by numbers of personnel i.e. BC, Carrier. If a single unit is to be considered the strongest then it will have to be the devastating Infested terran, though it could also be considered more of devastating rather than stronger in terms of damage accumulation in a period of time...

 

but you have to remember, that since there's 8 interceptors, against armored units the armor essentially counts for 8x as much. a simple +3 armor upgrade would bring it back down to 1.081.

and against units with naturally high armor, like the BC or ultralisk, it does even worse.

 

True armor does have a much larger effect against the Carrier but this is also true for any unit that has an attack with a high rate of fire or large number of projectiles (i.e. the Zergling or the Valkyrie). Again not counting special abilities I don't think there is a unit a Carrier couldn't beat 1v1.

Dark, DpC = Damage per 1 Cooldown (In essence DpS but seconds being replaced with whatever time value 1 Cooldown represents).

 

Carrier will not be able to take down cloaking units especially a full charged wraith.

 

I am well aware of that hence why I said not counting special abilities.

 

assuming full upgrades, a BC should still beat a carrier. easily. with full armor, a BC will reduce a even a fully upgraded carrier, with 9 damage, to 3. that means it's half of even the base damage vs. an unarmored opponent... about 0.54 DpC.

the BC, however, will be doing 34 damage per hit, -3 against the shields and -7 when it gets down to the armor. that's still 26, a bit higher than its "base" damage rate, 0.833 DpC. and it still has more HP than the carrier.

...and that's not counting yamato cannon. in short, carrier should win against low-armored opponents like buildings and infantry, but its usefulness quickly drops as armor goes up.

 

I don't know is there even a most powerful unit in Starcraft? The game is very well balanced and any unit can be very powerful when used properly. If I had to choose though I would probably go with the Battlecruiser because they are almost unstoppable when massed.

 

asdf that would be true if those were the only variables. The Carrier is faster than the Battlecruiser, has a faster acceleration, and a longer range (not counting Yamato), which means in the hands of a player of adequite skill with room to move the Carier will beat a BC every time. Trust me on this I thought the same way as you until I had an opportunity to test it extensively.

Though I agree with Pancake SC os balanced well enough so this debate rarely will ever matter.

 

Power is being absolute and dominant, hence why should this poll be constricted within normal range? I made 4 battlecruisers to destroy my enemies' 4 carriers because I know that I can do it with the help of yamato. If people are concerned with upgrades and skills then why don't they ever restrict the carrier to 4 interceptors and see the results.. Even if the carrier has the speed, eventually they will get cornered, unless its a battle of 10+ bc vs 10+carrier w/c is highly unlikely to happen in an official match.

Yes, yes, we know the carrier will win by means of kiting (sounds like gay-tactics to me), but what do they have against terran once they got hit by 3 yamatos? doesnt that spell instant carrier doom, besides, I also think that carrier is only powerful in terms of maneuverability, but in a raw face to face battle everyone knows that BCs will decimate carriers any time of the day.

But since the thread questions isn't well defined either, I will go back to my resolve that the Dark Archon is the most powerful unit capable of controlling organic and metallic minds at will every 150 energy... lol

 

If you make 4 Battlecruisers to counter 4 Carriers you are begging to lose your Battlecruisers. While the thread was never defined well in the OP I always defined my posts as talking about 1v1 with no abilities and a full hanger, which the Carrier is the top dog in.

Also, if you think kiting is a gay tactic, then I have a news flash for you, there a lot of things in this world that surpass there oponents by being able to outmanuever and outrun. In war its known as guerilla warfare.

 

That is also why I said if it was a head to head combat, man to man, face to face.... otherwise we all know the results...

Unfortunately I only hate kiting in scenarios where there are questions of who is stronger/powerful/better in terms of power, wherein there will be stipulations that breaks the rule of head to head bout. Such as this scenario..

Look at MMA and Boxing, despite how good you maneuver eventually in time you will get pinned and cornered, but that is a different story and there are also lots of conditions to make that happen.

Anyhow, I have nothing against your avatar, if you are defensive about its tactics, well whats is an RTS if you dont use the S part on a game... (which also out rules your condition of 1v1 w/no abilities scenario and my condition inward fighting without running your tail behind). At the end of the day strategy and tactics wins over power. Btw that news flash is old, every body knows it.... its so deteriorated that power is trying to break the rules and boundaries of tactics.. Just like US's resolve for using the A-bomb because their head to head tactics crumbled at pearl harbor lol...