Merge the Carrier and the Mothership.

Well if they are merged then the Carrier would have cloak but the disadvantage the cloak has (can't move or fire) doesn't applied to the carrier since it has no weapons and doesn't need to move since the interceptors do all the work.

A carrier based cloak would have no inherent weakness making it really scary

 

See your point, even with SC1 cloaked carriers were hard to kill. The main weakness was the arbiter, since it could be killed off rather easily with low life, but any smart player would have it behind the carriers, meaning the defenders would take massive casualties before it would be destroyed.

If it could cloak itself, the only way to fight back is with a detector, which are usually the first targets a carrier will go for, spore colonies/cannons, and turrets, since the interceptors would destroy these without any risk of loss, making the carrier extremely powerful, even when uncloaked.

 

I don't see why you'd want to combine the traits of the Mothership and the Carrier. Their only similarities are that they're...large Protoss air units. They have completely different roles. If you're going to unload the Mothership's abilities, why not spread them out between the other, lighter units? Why not give the Warp Ray Planet Cracker, whatever becomes the air caster could pick up the cloaking field and Time Bomb (yes, that unit would then become almost exactly like the Arbiter.)

If the Carrier gets anything, it shouldn't be a direct attack or a damaging spell, it should be something that supports its Interceptors, since that is the role of the unit to begin with. Maybe the cloak could go to the Carrier, but it would be treated like it was with the Arbiter: the unit projecting the field is not affect. To emphasize the Interceptors, it might only work on Interceptors or small units.

 

I actually think that is a bad idea because the 8 small interceptors distract enemy units making micro harder for the other player. If the interceptors become invisable then they won't be attacked then the carriers would be at a higher risk. That would give the cloak a negative effect

 

That occurred to me as well, I was going to suggest that the ability have a high energy cost, but I retracted it because the distraction loss would be big enough. I suppose it would be best for Carriers attacking from out of sight.

 

We could just do this

Protoss Carrier
350 Minerals 300 Gas
25 Minerals Per Interceptor

Shield:300(+50 from Upgrade.)
Hitpoints:250
Energy:200 (+50 from Upgrade.)

Armor: 4
Shield Armor: 0

Interceptors:4(+4 from Upgrade)
Shield:25
Hitpoints:25
Attack:10

Special Ability:

Interceptor Phase Shift.
The Carrier remained as the Capital Ship of the Protoss Fleet. With the Fall of Aiur and Loss of the Judicator Caste the Arbiters of old were abandoned. With this came a great deal of loss to the Protoss. Thus, the Carrier, the Capitol Ship of the Protoss, grew in use, but still the numbers declined.
The last of those who held the power of the Judicator Caste grew to now Pilot the Carriers of Old alongside those who piloted them before combining their powers. With their psionic powers now at the disposal of the pilots they held a greater control over the Interceptors of the Carriers than before. Now, the Interceptors using the powers granted by the Judicator Caste of the Old Protoss now phase in and out of this reality. This new slipping allowed more Interceptors to survive between attacks more effectively at the cost of slowing depleting psionic power.

Ability Mechanic:
The Carrier uses 1 Energy Per Interceptor to allow a dimensional shift so that they pop in and out of small dimensional rifts. There attack time may increase by close to a millisecond.


Dimensional Jump:
The Carrier Pilots now accompanied by the last of the Judicator Caste gained the knowledge of the reality and time bending abilities of the Judicators. With this came knowledge and growing understanding of other realities. Thus, the acts of the Judicator have now allowed the Carrier, to slip in and out of the dimensions.

Mechanics of Dimensional Jump:
The Carrier at the Cost of 225 Energy Jumps from one point on the map to another. The Carrier can only jump to an area that is revealed in the Fog of War by a unit's sight line.

Ya....


Bonus 200 minerals for a Reply of Relative Interest

 

The teleport one sounds good but the phase shift won't be since the interceptors move so quickly and are repaired every time they switch targets it is hard to lose one before the carrier is destroyed since that i what players target

 

Oh wow I missed that completely for the Carrier... guess I never noticed.. Uh... Anyway ya I think that the Carrier deserves something more than Interceptors if it were to be combined...
*Crosses out Idea on Phase Shifting Interceptors

 

Could someone explain why the carrier and the mothership overlap? The mothership is an über spellcaster, the carrier deals damage. I don't see any overlapping here, at least game-wise. What bothers you, in my opinion - correct me if I'm wrong - is that you see them both as capital ships. And that's it. I seriously don't see any overlapping except that. I was never a fan of the mothership being a super unit idea and I hated the unit, but I grew to like it since they changed it's abilities and since it's not a super unit anymore. I picture it as a buffed up arbiter. All of you are complaning about the mothership not being a super-unit just because of what I think are two reasons:
a) Because it's a MOTHERship. Well, if it bothers you so much, just change the name and the lore behind it. I don't see what the big deal is. Mothership. Bah. I don't see the coolness surrounding the name like everyone else does. It just sounds cheesy.
b) Because you want the super-kewl black hole ability back in the game. Admit it.

I never liked the idea of a super unit. First of all, it doesn't sound Starcrafty to me. When I hear the phrase "super unit" I think of everything else but Starcraft (not to mention that my blood starts to boil). I'd rather have a toned-down unit that the game won't revolve around. You will disagree, saying that it won't alter your strategy. Yes, it won't, but you'll be much more centered on it. I can already see a thousand noobs playing protoss without any other strategy than simply getting the zomfgüber mothership. Doesn't really sound like a fun game to me. I prefer a toned-down version of a buffed up arbiter. That's the "mother"ship I like.
I don't know. I had to write this post to get it out of my system. Sorry if it seems like a rude post, but I'm really tired about constantly seeing complaints about the mothership not being a super unit anymore. I like it the way it is now. Maybe it's just me, but I just hate the super unit thingie.

 

Many think they overlap because both are capital ships that are good against ground targets. However, the MS can't attack air units whereas the carrier can, thus, the MS is over priced and useless against aireal assults.

That would be one reason I want it to be a super units again. The BH animation in the demovideo was cool to watch and I feel in love (not literally!) with the thing at that point, and was anrgy when I heard the black hole was being scraped for a cloaking ability.

No need to be sorry, you're just telling your ideas and why you think they are correct. I just think the MS should have a limit on how many people can build so they don't mas them into the fight.

 

Why would people mass them? After all, you yourself just said that it has no AtA capatibilities whatsoever. The toss air has an amazing synergy. The phoenix is very good against weaker air. The warp ray is amazing against buildings and capital ships. The carrier takes care of everything that's ground and the mothership has a supportive role with planet cracker, time bomb and cloaking field. I didn't mention strong ground units here because, as far as I'm aware, there's no strong ground unit with anti-air capatibilities.

 

Mass MS with warpray and phoenix support. And the MS curently have 300 life and 300 shield, so any support against its only weakness would give the MS much more time to completely demolish a base with Planet cracker and Time Bomb would protect the MS from arcraft fire and all AA ground fire.If multiple MS are used at once, then not only can they use both abilities alternately to deal massive damage to any base, no matter how powerful it is.

 

That's a bit naive thinking IMO. You just listed 3/4 of the toss's air force and you completely forgot about, for example, marines. What would you do to counter 50 marines? Phoenixes would get devastated, so would the warp rays and, finally, the mothership. Sure, you could try to use planet cracker. You know what would happen? The MS would get focused and destroyed before the planet cracker could go on for even 2 seconds. And even if you somehow managed to pull it off, killing the marines without losing the motherships, what would you do without mana? You couldn't use planet cracker to demolish the base. You couldn't use time bomb to disable all the 10 or 20 turrets. You could pull back to recover your mana but the enemy would easily rebuild his forces by then, not to mention that he sure as hell wouldn't have only 50 marines. Your thinking is wonderfull on the computer screen, but I seriously doubt it would go as smoothly as you describe it in the actual game.

 

the picture shown in the beginning of this tread has enough MS to sweep across any base. Time Bomb slows all enemy units, and from whats shown in the demo, stops ranged attacks, making the marines useless against it. Also with low life, the marine are easy to kill without taking too much damage, even when only using a regular ground attack.

As for the turrets, with a total of 600 life, the MS would easily kill turrets without them being too much of a threat.

 

When casting time bomb the mothership can't attack or use any other abilities. And the time bomb isn't as big as to cover all of the enemy's AA forces, even with 4 or 5 motherships. And do you know how much damage 50 marines do if they shoot all at once? 300. Stimpack them, poof, one mothership down in 2 seconds.
And of course, you have to consider that deep in the game when you have a considerable force of phoenixes, warp rays and motherships, the enemy has a considerable force too. Other races have good units with good abilities too. Mothership is not the only good unit in the game.
And I also doubt that the mothership has a strong normal attack. It's a caster, after all.
IMO, the current mothership isn't as allmighty as everyone thinks and is seriously overrated.

 

The mothership can deal much more damage than an arbiter to my knowledge.

 

Agreed, they keep downsizing it. At this rate, MS will be just a powerful spellcaster with no other reason to exist, like the zerg defiler from SC 1, cast something then run for your life. What ever happened to lore about the MS being able to destroy planets? It's now lucky to kill a single base. The super unit idea is the only way to make sure that the MS and carrier don't overlap.

 

if you timebomb the marines than you just overload the phoenixes, boom problem solved

 

@DKutrovsky - yes, and it also costs much more and takes more supply. Plus, even that doesn't mean that it has a strong attack, arbiter's attack was crappy. Concerning the power of the MS normal attack, we will have to wait and see, but my belief is that it's not strong. Maybe it was when it was a super unit, but now...

@EonMaster - that's exactly what I want it to be. A powerful spellcaster that complements the toss air force with it's abilities. That's reason enough to exist. And as I already said, if the lore bothers you so much change it. And the name. I think that would also be the right thing to do if the MS stays this way, since it bothers so much people.

@ijffdrie - overload works on air only.

I'm off now, I'll check back later

 

I still have a feeling that they overlap quite a bit, i mean its probably more so than the Thor and Siege tank, they are both big, both from the stargate, both are supposedly choke point killers.

They need to separate their roles a bit more.

Anyone care to share what the carrier's role is and what the MS's role is.

You would think the mothership is a Banshee like, ATG attacker, with some special abilities, which exels at breaking choke points. Weakness no ATA

Carrier, multi task or choke point breaking, capitol ship?
Weakness?