Melee Combat Ghost.

Psionic dampeners? Or amplifiers?

Why would high orbit be so hard to hit? Once the rounds leave the atmosphere they're just going to keep travelling until they hit something, and seeing as Marines would have mechanical assistance when aiming to compensate for human error, the chances or missing would be reduced.

Zerg are extremely enigmatic and don't follow the usual restrictions of normal creatures due to their accelerated and augmented genetic coding, so there's no telling what they could be capable of. They've got units that can not only survive, but fly in a vacuum, so I don't think hitting orbiting targets would be too much of a concern. It's not that I agree with leaving all these excuses for stuff like flying in vacuums, etc, but that's the way it is. Due to the Zergs' uncommon though natural, if it can be called natural, control over Warp Space, whenever it's brought up I tend to just 'sub in' my own explanations as to how it's possible.

 

Point 1. The player was having a hard time with the zergling. If I was playing that I wouldn’t get any single damage, by doing sidestep, crazy maneuvers, fast battle anticipation etc. just like in other games. I would owned the zerglings easily since its alone or few in numbers.

Point 2. Like I said nova or not, what im talking about are ghost that can do most things that I’ve said.

Point 3. They are low tier because they are just infantry. Bc and tanks are harder to make so that’s why they are on higher tier. Also bc and tanks do splash damage, can kill enemies easily lorewise, is armored unlike biological units like the ghost. that’s why they are on higher tier. But it doesn’t mean ghost are weak, specially that we are only talking about melee one on one combat match here.



Point 4.

The gameplay is the one sensationalized not the trailers and cinematics, but the fact is nova is capable of doing this things in real life or else there should be no starcraft:ghost in the first place (like if the ghost can’t even kill a single zergling in real life using a melee weapon).

Game would actually be closer to real life scenario than trailers or cinematics? Wow. I think your very much wrong here, im sure you know why there are cinematics in games. Yes to let you see and know what and how things actually happened.

In real life you will never jump and fight those brutes and tanks, but masterchief is not you or anyone of us. He is an enhance soldier just like captain America. Lol. He can jump and kill those brutes etc because he is powerful and skillful. It was not sensationalized, its according to master chiefs lore, that’s why he can do stuff like that. Its not been made like that just for the purpose of making it cool etc… in silent hill the guy you play it basically a real human, and you will never see him do stuffs like masterchief can, but the game is still cool and popular etc. Its that way because the silent guy story and lore is simply like that, masterchief is that way because the lore told it so. So you think masterchief will die after that jumped? Believe.



Point 5.

Yes they have killer instinct etc… that becomes a disadvantage especially if you are facing against an actual skilled fighter who uses both mind and physical prowess because you just go attack directly without thinking etc… just like what I think of a zergling would basically do.

Point 6.

Heroic ghost? When I started this thread I already base it pretty much on starcraft:ghost, meaning that’s the ghost im talking about average or not. And you played on until lord kerwyn talked about the difference between heroic and average ghost.

So you are saying now that a hero ghost could handle a melee weapon and beat a zergling? And in your earlier post, you did not talked about heroic ghost etc, you simply disagree with starcraft:ghost’s ghost. so if we go back, you now actually agree, your just trying to deny it now by saying the average ghost is not a heroic ghost.

Anyway, I already said that im talking now about ghost that can actually do more or less the stuff nova can do. And its not like nova is the only one who can do all these things. An average ghost surely knows some basic melee combat since they are also psionically enhance and all.

About the ghost suit, well the main purpose of it is for the cloak.

Point 7.

Not only its protagonist, but because in real life he has the right stuff or capabilities to do it, and its because its back by lore and the story. He is a dragon slayer, a very good one in fact… that’s why in movies / games you beat dragons etc. In game you may beat tons of dragons, but like I said plenty of times, its not like he beat all of them at once or in the same manner. Anyway what important is in real life he is capable to do so just like a ghost against a zergling etc.

Yes zerg have strong carapaces, but its not they are made out of thick metal. They are still biological. More monstrous heavy armored skin biological monsters than a zergling in other sci fi or fantasy settings, obviously is killable by melee weapons.

 

Point 8.

In real life, luck and random circumstances and actions matters.

As far as I can tell zerg just go on berserk and on a killing spree. They are mindless bloodlust creatures who don’t care much on battle situations unless the overmind tells them so. I don’t think that zerg creatures are that skillful to do so. They don’t even know a firebat would shoot flames, if they do so then they would not just go on and get hit by the flames, they would try to strategize instead. The zergs are breed only to kill, fast and hard without really thinking on consequences etc.

In a realistic point of view a single or two zealot have a chance killing a single ultralisk. Just like the warcraft 3 cinematics, where thrall and grom killed manaroth. Lol

Yes the 2 orcs are heroes but manaroth is a hero as well. A war godlike powerful hero in fact. And in game its like manaroth is unkillable immortal like powerful demon. You fight him in game, you may get owned or manaroth gets owned depending on how you played it.

But the fact is the two orc heroes beat this seemingly unbeatable monster storywise or in real life. How? Not like the way you played it but rather in a realistic perspective as you can see it in the cinematic. Yes manaroth 99% of the time could kill those 2 heroes in real life, but the important thing is the 2 heroes are actually capable to it do it also as well, win. I can imagine 2 zealots fighting an ultralisk in similar matter to that.

This would be the same thing happening with the game starcraft:ghost and all other games.




Point 9.

Yes years of genetic evolution etc… But they still are biological and bleeds so it can be killed.

Yes zergling may know a little bit of common sense, but the ghost surely is always 10x steps ahead.



itza quote- “For your summary, you're assuming that Nova is of the same skill level as normal Ghosts. All your quoting is about Nova and then in the last line you say "a Ghost or Nova". Ghosts aren't even mentioned in it apart from Nova, who's a hero and a sensationalised hero at that. “

read point 2 and 6.


10-20 marines can destroy a battlecruiser in real life? Omg! That is absurd compared with ghost in melee combat vs a single zergling/hydralisk/zealot discussion. That is just impossible. and insane. and very unimaginable compared to a single or two zealot killing an ultralisk. If you want we can make another thread for that, like 20 marines downing a battlecruiser?

Obviously you basing it in the starcraft rts game, and that is just more worst than me basing my points on starcraft:ghost game. Now I know why you can’t perceive or imagine a ghost capable of doing most things that I said, coz your pretty much stuck with the ghost in the rts game as well in starcraft 1 cinematics not even trying to imagine what a ghost can actually do in real life as according to its lore.

 

@LordK All the information under Wiki for protoss is on the SC2 website and the PI scale s from the books so all the information i have usd dose have a real Basis, You just dont wanna accept some things just because you dont wanna be labled as wrong. But what ever

 

No in fact it isn't. All of the information is based on someone elses interpretation of what they have read on the Sc websites and what they have read in the books. Since I havn't read the books (and I don't count them as a very good source of information by comparisson to Blzzard), I am just using the information I have read on the site and gathered from the game. My interpretation is Zealots are naturally weaker in psionic ability than Ghosts, but Zealots have such a large technological advantage they can still be in effect more powerful than a Ghost. Also I find it amussingf you are now just starting to attack me instead of my points which really shows you don't have a whole left to argue with.

 

LOL, Zealots weaker than Ghosts psionic-wise? I coulda sworn I proved that they were stronger.
http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4902&page=6
Also the logic is all there, Protoss are born with potent psionic abilities, the communicate with psionics, etc.
Ghost's need suits to amplify the psionic ability and that doesn't even compare to a Protoss.
and I'll re-quote:

 

Um Psionicz you should check your sources before you post them because I can't find that first quote anywhere on the Blizzard site.

As for your second quote I thought we already disscussed the differences bewteen heoric and normal Zealots/Ghosts also I am pretty we wrote the charge upgrade off as a technological bonus along time ago.

 

You should check your eyes lol

How can charge be a technological bonus if they them selfs can turn their body into pure energy?

Only Ghost have some psionic power. All Protoss do.
The fact they can manifest pure psionic energy from theirs kinda draws the line doesn't it?

 

Wow your reading comprehension is through the floor. I said I couldn't find your first quote on the site, and guess what it isn't there. And if you would like to bring up what only some Zealots can I would be happy to bring up the things that only some Ghosts can do.

Now for your second point, did you miss the part where it said they use special crystals to crewate the blades or that they use advancedx technology to allow Zealots to create shielding, or are you just choosing to ignore those little details? Also if I remember correctly Ghosts can also use Terran versions of psiblades they are just rare. On top of all that Ghosts have to power to sense of psionic units in the field and cloak which pretty much trumps using technology to into light for a couple of microseconds.

 

@LORDK or nono my friend Ghost use technology to enhance three detection of other Psionic beings so saying they can do this normal is a high understatment. Protoss can do this as well just in the Game like SC and SC2 they dont bother to equip units with this feature cause blizzard dosen't want too many overlaping roles in the game. This trype of technology also stated is expensive and i would guess that gose for protoss as well. Now with that information givin like i said before zealot need to remain cheap and effective, thats why they dont have a cloack, or psi detecting technology. Not to also point out there not really trained for this unless they took it to a personal matter to surch out for Psioinc energy them self. The main reason why i can see a Zealot not having this is because notmany other Races have Psionic type units and even if they did it would be so weak it would be hard to pick up a trace of it anyways.

And were not ignoring those litte details but, we can go and pick at the small details you would ignore on the ghost as how much of a boost they get off there suit and after reading the profiles on many ghost and the ghost programs the terrens have much of there technology in between SC and SC:BW was stole from protoss. There getting more of a boost then even you would want to admit.

 

Wow amazing, did I ever say that Ghosts didn't use technology to assist them. In fact I think I commented on that several times and generally pointing out that Ghosts use inferior technology to boost there psionic abilties while being able to produce similar effects to what Zealots do.

This has been my point the entire time, with all else remaining equal Ghosts have more raw psionic ability than Zealots and Zealots have more raw physical ability than Ghosts. The Protoss still have way more advanced technology so most of the time the Ghost will be inferior to the Zealot (assuming they are both equiped and trained for the same kind of mission).

 

Yeah you sid that but i think there armor is giving them a little be of abigger boot then the litte boost thn you infering too.

Then lets talk No armor. if a zealot and a ghost didnt have on any armor who would you say would have the advantage in Psionic Power?

 

The Ghost not by a ton but a noticeable amount. The Zealot of course would be way stronger physcally and neither would be able to make much use of their psionic abilties for actual combat.

 

Why? What can you show to prove that ghost on a normal given second have a greater psionic power then a zealot on a normal givin second.

 

Part of it is idealist logic and the other part is just there general descriptions. Ghosts are always described as having substanial psionic power while Zealots are generally mentioned for military prowess and ability as well as their "Zealotry." When the topic of a Zealots psionic power comes up in a Blizzard article it always seems to jump to how all Protoss have "some" psionic ability instead of actually talking about what Zealots can do. Which tells me that really all Zealots do with psionic powers is power their psiblades/shields and communicate. In contrast to Ghosts who are always descirbed as having there psionic abilities limitied to just being channeled through their suit, which suggests that they could do more but they couldn't be as easily controlled.

Finally like I said a little bit of idealistic logic comes into play. Ghosts are the best the Terrans have to offer on the Psionic front and they are rare at best. While Zealots are the cannon fodder of the Protoss, they are Protoss's first level of soldier and infantry, If Zealots are better then the best the Terrans have to offer then that makes the Terrans pretty much a piece of crap on the psionic front, when they obviously aren't.

 

Lol either I'm an idiot or you cannot read the solid information properly
heres where the first quote was from and that was in the original post talking about this on page 6.
http://www.battle.net/scc/protoss/units/zealot.shtml

We know they use the technology to amplify their psionic energy to manifest energy blades we also know Zealots use technology for shields but that isn't a variable as the Ghosts have their technology.
The fact still lays right infront of us that they can turn them selfs, their whole body into energy. I don't see a Ghost doing that.

A Ghost in-game can detect units with energy, lore-wise any Protoss could do that to an extent but in-game Zealots don't have abilities like that, they are purely offensive.

How does it trump the technology to turn into 'light' as you said. They do it them selfs, they do not use technology, if they used technology they could remain in that pure energy form for longer.

Also you havn't posted anything to back up your statements so your points are not as valid when you say things like, Terrans have a psi-blade type weapon as I can just counter that and say they obtained some crystals the Protoss use and back-engineered the things on their wrists which focus the energy further and used another form of energy to channel into the crystals to create a psi-blade which clearly out-rules them using their own psionic energy to do it.

Wrong:

[FONT=arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]

[/SIZE][/FONT]Here is what a Ghost can do:

*Which means they have the possibility to further enhance it beyond the normal human psionic potential being mild telepathy.

**They almost completly rely on those suits to boost their combat abilities. It isn't their psionic abilities which makes them strong, its the 'artificial muscle fibre' in the suit which gives them extra power and increased reaction times, etc,

They are, cuz they barely match the Protoss' weakest psionic beings which are Zealots. Don't even tempt me to talk about how High Templars and Archons would trump the whole of Terran let alone a Ghost since the Ghost is so great.
___

Imagine humans and Protoss fighting each other without technology, it would be Civilians armed with sticks and fire vs Zealots, High Templar, Archons. GG.

 

First off your an idiot if you havn't noticed that isn't the link you just provided isn't the the link you atributed to the quote originally. But there are some days when I'm blind as well so moving on...

Next I thought I said don't use an ability atributed to only some Zealots or I will start bringin up abilties atributed to only some Ghosts (this means no more Charge disscussion). The average Zealot can't use charge atleast according to the lore so I have been atributing the in-game upgrade to technological support so the average Zealot can achieve the ability. Since the ability requires if you compare to the Ghost using less advanced technology to Cloak and sense there enemies I would sya that makees the Ghost appear more impressive.

Third I have posted about as much to backup my statements as you guys have.

Fourth, i2new asked my opinion on something an opinion can't be wrong. But since you insist lets look at the modern information on the Ghost v. Zealot in psionic ability.

Zealot:

Ghost:

Remove technology from this debate and the Ghost can do more than a Zealot can. Incredible Potential > Some.

Fianlly, have you had your head in the ground this entire time or did my Carrier avatar make you believe I somehow was a Terran supporter? I have never said Ghosts come anywehre close to High Templar. All I have ever said is the Ghost has a little more psionic power than a Zealot, I have never even said the Ghost could beat a Zealot in melee except in rare cases. In fact if you read through this entire thread you would notice a lot of the time I was against Zeratul's comments on the strength's of a Ghost.

__

No **** sherlock. but once you remove the technology from the equation the only effective Protoss would be the High Templar (and subsequently the Archons).

 

psionic potential.......
potential
potential
potential

hum this word makes the ghost sound as if he could be great but really isnt. makes me wonder...

 

Ohh how mature of a mod calling me an idiot over a friendly debate.
Also check the attatchment

Such as?

Blizzard never said it was rare, they just said some. Also you cannot define it as technological as Blizzard has defined it as their own ability, the reason its an upgrade in-game is because they have to learn it, which is what an upgrade is. You are telling your Zealots to learn the charge ability. so the average Zealot can infact charge, they just have to learn to do so, just like other more powerful Zealots could probably make their own psi-blades without the machine.

Dark Templars are basically Zealots remember that, and they can cloak without technology so I think that is more impressive. The lore on Zealots also said they focus their psionic abilities on aggressive things like energy blades, not passive abilities such as cloak. Zealots don't want to cloak, a Ghost has to cloak or its toast.
Also a zealot would easily be able to sense their enemies as they've stated in the lore section and they don't even need technology for that.
The Ghost is only impressive on human standards.

I see no sources, only your font. Mind you, I havn't read through all 10 extra pages.

Your opinion is that Ghosts have better psionic ability than a Zealot meaning without technological boosts.
My opinion is that you are incorrect when saying that, and the fact you try to disprove my 'opinions' and simple logic is what makes it a discussion so telling me an opinion can't be wrong doesn't justify any of your statements as I am not trying to be right or prove anyone wrong. I am simply trying to enlighten you as to why the Zealot is stronger, in all ways than a Ghost.

Incredible potentional simply means they have the psionics available for amplification, using their suits as the amplifier; naked a Ghost couldn't do much more than have faster reactions and be able to mildly predict movements better than a well trained human.
And I'd like to say Zealots train over hundreads of years with their psionic ability, the Ghost would have like 30 years life experience let alone combat.

And from those two all you could pick out is that one sentence, as opposed to my whole discussion.
Thier psionic abilities are channeled meaning they focus it into the suit which amplifies it, again they need the suit. Zealots don't need a suit as on the lore section they clearly stated the suits amplify their already formiddible psionic ability.

Another contridiction, if the Ghost cannot beat a Zealot in melee doesn't that highlight the fact Zealots are superior to Ghosts, as the Ghost requires technology to have the slighest chance of beating a Zealot, and they also need range.

So what if a Ghost had a psi-blade, the Zealot has had over 400 years of experience with them not to mention their conditioning is out of the Ghost's leauge so what does that small amount of greater psionic ability help the Ghost to accomplish if you your self said the Zealot would beat a Ghost in melee combat?

Earlier you said remove technology and the Ghost can do more, so I removed technology and noted that Protoss > Terran

I also find it strange you say the high Templar and Archons would be the only effective ones when before you said a Zealot beats a Ghost in melee, so how would normal humans stand up to Zealots?

 

WOW LORDK, your getting talked into circles here, maybe you should quit while your ahead cause other people reading this my only look down on you. And boys keep the bad words in your head and not on the screen.