Melee Combat Ghost.

Ghost Melee Combat Analysis

Well time for my say in this. I say this with all honesty. As much as it is possible for a Ghost to kill a Zealot and or Zergling in melee it seems just as impossible. I say this because of the obvious differences between the three units types. Here is my breakdown of the the matter.
*Note My opinion changes after finding all the information.


Terran Ghost: Psionic Commando/Assassin that moves on battle
in a Hostile Environment suit attuned to their psionic nature.

Weapon(s):
C-10 Canister Rifle
AGR-14 Assault Rifle(?)
BOSUN FN92 Sniper Rifle(?)
E-11 Lockdown Device(?)
Psyblade(?)

Special Abilities:
Cloak
Lockdown
Nuclear Strike
Sniping
Psionic Sight/Energy Detection(?)(Passive)
EMP Rocket/Shot(?)

Side Weapons(?):
# BE-3 Sticky Grenades
# E-16 Lockdown Grenades
# Tactical Nuclear Launchers

Augmentations:
Cybernetic Implants(Sight)
Psychic Dampener( Psionic Capability)
Terrazine Gas(Spectre Augmentation)
Moebius Generator( More Psionic Energy)

Strengths:
Stealth
Multiple Ordinance
Psionic Capabilities
Most Augmented of the three.

Weaknesses:
Very Light Armor
Weakest of the three Physically

Zerg Zergling: One of the smallest strains of the Zerg. Are both warriors and scouts. Newer strains have small wings.

Weapons:
Fangs
Scythe Claws

Special Abilities:
Burrow
Baneling Metamorphosis
Ability to climb walls(?)(Not in-game, but has been described elsewhere)
Bloodlust(?)(Possible Speed and Damage Enhancement when with other Zerglings)

Bio Enhancements:
Metabolic Boost(Speed Increase)
Adrenal Glands(Attack Speed Cooldown Reduction)

Strengths:
Strength
Endurance
Speed
Ferocity

Weaknesses:
Least Psionicly Attuned of the three.
No armor other than natural armor.
Closest Melee Fighter.

Protoss Zealot: Low ranking Templar who are have not yet reached an upper level of the Khala. Are the main warriors of the Protoss Race. They are psionicly attuned, but use their power specifiably for the purpose of war.

Weapons:
Psionic Blades(Channeled through a power suit)

Special Abilities:
Charge(Passive)

Enhancements:
Charge/Legs Enhancement(Increases Movement Speed)

Strengths:
Physically strongest of the three.
Psionicly attuned
Special Armor that helps to form a psionic shielding and has the most outright hitpoints.

Weaknesses:
Least Versatile of the three.
Very little abilities and or enhancements.

(?) = Possible / Starcraft:Ghost / Starcraft II information
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Now that the information is out there and we know the capabilities of each you can truly argue out your points.
My feeling after all the information has been gathered is this: in melee combat the Ghost would only win if it used cloak or took the victim by surprise, the Zergling would win if it used borrow and surprised the opponent or it was an opponent of lesser standing(Ghost), and finally the Zealot would win outright in any other type of melee confrontation due to its overall strength and endurance. That is my take on this after all the information has been gathered. Seeing as this was needed for all you to really argue based on facts. Now enjoy the rest of your arguing.

 

I was not talking about starcraft;ghost gameplay alone, but instead the overall picture of the game itself. The games tells the “story” of nova of how she beat enemies and accomplish missions. Nova uses melee combat in game to, so that means in real life or in the story she can do it and can beat zergling with it… but not exactly / completely the same as the way you played it.

In game zergling may just spawn all the time etc… and you just go fight them head on while getting hit back. That’s not like it in real life, but still the point is in real life nova beats the zergling (doesn’t matter how she did it) just like in game because in the end you won the mission and that’s the story or lore blizzard made.

They are powerful, what are you talking about? That’s why we have the game starcraft:ghost, it means a ghost or nova is powerful. Overall lore-wise a zergling is nothing compared to a ghost.

Zealot is many times stronger, i agree. but they can get still killed.

i know psi blade is way stronger, but its not just all about the weapon. As long as the enemy is not immortal and bleeds it can be killed miraculously or skillfully.

Psi baldes takes a lot of skill to master? Its not like zergling or a hydralisk are going to block or dodge it. They will get cut easily. omg, even some one who knows basic sword figthing could handle a psi blade and just some lucky few slashes it can easily kill a zergling. It will not be like a duel between two master jedi when a ghost and zergling fight, it will be quick and easy.

ghost don't have the skill etc? hahah. who said this?

Marines can't kill a zergling running towards them? one on one? Then why do zerg needs swarms and hordes of lings in the first place. As far as i see it zergling are just pawns in the zerg armies, meaning they are mass and get killed easily in battles.

Do you really need a godlike blow or swipe to kill a zergling? wow. as far i can tell a samurai slash of an average built human would slice it in two if given the chance to do it on an open harmless zergling just for testing purposes.

 

About the 'overall picture of the game itself', that doesn't at all prove that a Ghost can beat a couple of Zerglings. First off, it's the story of how she completes her objective, not the story of how she kills units. Secondly, as I've said before, Just because the level's able to be finished, it doesn't mean that a Ghost can take on a couple of Zerglings. In the video, despite having all her advantages which you seem to ignore each and every time, Nova practically just runs out and goes straight for the Zerglings. That's practically the equivalent of you running Kerrigan out and telling her to go straight for a couple of Ultralisks or, if you want an FPS example, like in Halo if you just ran out into a whole lot of Brutes. The outcome of all of these situations is that you get owned. Now, just because it's a story of how Nova, Kerrigan and the Master Chief complete their mission, it doesn't mean that they can survive these situations.

StarCraft:Ghost only means that Nova is a powerful Ghost, it doesn't mean that Ghosts are powerful at all. Saying that Ghosts are powerful based on Nova is like saying Marines are powerful based on Raynor, etc. Nova is a powerful Ghost, just as Raynor is a powerful Marine. That does not correspond to Ghosts and Marines being powerful.

In response to your response to Wlck.

Psi Blades are extremely powerful. There's no disputing that. Anything weaker would make it harder and harder to deliver penetrating blows, etc. Seeing as Terran are absolutely nowhere near the Protoss when it comes to melee weapons, it would be extremely hard for a Ghost to deliver a damaging blow. If Zealots, who are much, much stronger, and wield much, much more powerful weapons have to deliver several blows to take out a Zergling, imagine how hard it would be for a Ghost who's weaker and has a near-useless weapon.

Psi Blades do require a long time to master, and Zerglings and Hydralisks would parry, dodge and block attacks. They have an extremely tough carapace that even Zealots take a while to penetrate, so provided that the Ghost is able to hit them, the chances of it being a penetrating blow are minimal. Someone who has a basic understanding of sword fighting definitely wouldn't be able to wield a Psi Blade. I doubt you realise how long the Protoss Templar train for. They spend ages attuning themselves with the Khala and would spend the rest of their time training physically to complement their natural strength and fighting skill. Seeing as they live for hundreds and hundreds of years, an ordinary Ghost would hardly be able to compete.

As I said earlier, no, Ghosts would not have the skill. The Protoss are naturally more skilful and spend their entire lives training and attuning themselves. Seeing as they live for hundreds upon hundreds of years and Ghosts probably only live to about forty on average, well, yeah. Ghosts would be much less skilful.

Zerg players need swarms and swarms of Zerglings because they're taking out much more than a single Marine. If the only thing they had to kill was a Marine, I doubt they'd produce more than two. And the only reason they wouldn't only produce one is because they spawn in pairs.

Do we really think we'd need a godlike blow to kill a Zergling? Well not godlike, but it'd need to be much stronger than that of an average Ghost. How the hell could an average person cleave through a Zergling's carapace with a mere Samurai Sword? Now that you've said that, I understand why you think a Ghost could beat a Zergling, and it's because you obviously think a Zergling's carapace is made of either Styrofoam or petroleum jelly. Believe it or not, they aren't. Their carapace would be around as strong as a Marine's armour, which is make from NeoSteel, and seeing as Samurai Swords are made from a much weaker material than NeoSteel, it'd be like trying to cleave through a block of iron with an aluminium rod.

 

What? So how did she won if she didn’t even beat a single zergling? So you mean she went through and finished all mission without encountering enemies lorewise? And that’s just for gameplay purposes? Weird.

She absolutely completes objective lorewise, storywise, or in real life, and that includes encountering enemies along the way ofcourse but not exactly how it is gameplay, meaning zergling does not respawn, have no hitpoints, she did not face all of them zerglings at one time, continuing without resting, doesn’t get injured, have a direct shootout against 5 hydralisk , it did not take only few hours to accomplished a level like how you played it, etc. that’s just for gameplay purposes.

But the point is lorewise she did beat the mission meaning along the way she encountered enemies and beat them and that may include melee combat as well, since in the gameplay the ghost can fight in melee combat as well. Blizzard will not just allow or make the ghost fights in melee combat if they can’t really do it in lore, story, or in real life.

Story wise or in cinematics you see a clear perspective of how the ghost finished the mission and beat down enemies. If blizzard shows and tells it just like other games.

They can survive this kind of situations ofcourse. How? you can see it in movies, or in cinematics of the games, stories, novels, etc. not gameplay wise. The gameplay is only there to prove that heroes like nova can do this thing and beat the hell out of the enemies but more in a semi unrealistic kind of way(gaemplay). But in the end the gameplay revolves around the story or in real life that the ghost nova indeed can beat zergling and win missions.

Yes masterchief is a good example. You see in game he just go on charging, firing, with his shield and armor. In real life, yes he could easily die by a banshee attack, yes it seems unlikely for him to fight an enemy flying aircraft(banshee), but he have a chance of killing it lorewise, in game it may be just shoot shoot and shoot, but the thing is, in real life he could have done it differently on a more realistic fashion, say like in the halo 3 trailer, lets say the banshee fired straight down at him, he would easily die with that unlike in game, but then he uses his portable bubble shield to cover him up, then after that he runs through a higher cliff and snipe the covenant driving the banshee so he beat it. But in game as you can see you just shoot and shoot to destroy the banshee, and while doing it you’re getting owned by the banshee firing back at you. This is what im saying from the beginning, the game shows that masterchief can take down a banshee in real life, but not the way you did it in game rather on a more realistic, cinematic, storytelling way. And that would be the same scenario for starcraft:ghost’s nova taking on a zergling or hydralisk in melee combat.

Well there are many ghost outhere and have different levels or ranks. I don’t know what ghost you are talking about but when I started this thread I was mainly basing or thinking about ghost that are similar to starcraft:ghost’s ghost which is nova. and the ghost Im talking about here is the ghost according to lore, not the ghost in sc1 and the ghost in game who just stand, cloak, shoot, etc.

Yes it would be hard to imagine if you keep on imagining the lame ghost in battle of amerigo cinematic or the in game rts ghost. According to lore and real life(not in rts), the ghost would not act or be limited that way respectively.

I don’t think a zealot needs several blows to slice a zergling in real life, just like having a light saber, a single or two strike would kill a zergling easily and fast.

Useless weapon? If terran would get a melee weapon im sure it would not be just a kitchen knife.

So your saying that you need to be as strong as a zealot to kill a zergling with a melee weapon? wow.

i don’t think that the zerg skin or armor is that strong. A futuristic chain saw would cut a zergling in half for sure, its not like that they are made of steel or anything they are still biological, a psi blade would easily cut a zergling if hit hard and precise.

Ghost are physically strong, and if there is a terran that could hit hard with a sword or similar type of weapon it would be the ghost.

The buggy jeep in sc1 cinematic bump a zergling and it died instantly. =\

Yes, a ghost with a melee weapon against a zealot imo has a 20-35% chance of winning specially the top class ghost.

A zergling? Ghost would pwned it.

A hydralisk? Imo a ghost with a melee weapon like a psi blade have a good chance. Really good chance.

Yes the protoss are very skillful. But sometimes all you need is luck and enough skill to kill it. And this is basically the main point of our discussion here, “Can ghost defeat or have a chance of defeating zergling, hydralisk, or even a zealot in melee combat with a melee weapon?’.

Not that im saying the ghost would win all the time against a zealot or the ghost is preferable to have a melee weapon.

Im just pointing they have a chance and win even it is in a rare occasion.

So like one on one zergling>marine considering the fight starts at a range distance?

I think marine have the advantage with a 1:2/3 ratio. Even at close distance the marine still have a chance. And that’s why zergling attacks in swarm.

 

Average ghost? We don’t really know how strong they are. But if you base it according to the game, then that ghost can’t do anything. Anyway average or not, ghost are trained and enhance so I believe they can easily kill a zergling with one or few thrust of its soft spot. Its not like the zergling is made up of armor or all parts of it are composed of the strongest carapace.

Well as far as I can tell the zergling doesn’t really have a strong hard armor like what you are saying. yes its not made of Styrofoam but they are not made out of steel either. Old samurai sword can cut thick woods etc if hit hard precise and fast… what more a future samurai sword would do.


I think the marine armor is tougher than the zergling skin. And yes its steel compared to the “zergling” skin, armor, and carapace.

 

First off, I left the compy while typing my response and someone carelessly closed the window, so instead of having to start again from scratch, and due to the fact that I was just repeating myself anyway, I'm just going to list my points. If I have to repeat myself after this, I'm just going to quote myself as I'm sick of having to say the whole thing over and over, especially when there's the chance of losing it all. Also, instead of quoting entire paragraphs and pointlessly reaching the word limit, you can just refer to it point by point.

Point 1. StarCraft:Ghost is about a sensationalised, heroic Ghost. In the video we've all been shown, she has Cloak as well as a gun and still struggles against a few Zerglings.

Point 2. Normal Ghosts are much weaker than heroic Ghosts. They do not have the same physical or mental capabilities. Normal Ghosts do have the highest mental and presumably physical capabilities out of all the normal Terran units, but both their mental and physical capabilities are nowhere near that of heroic Ghosts.

Point 3. The lore behind units is not greater than the unit itself. There is absolutely no point in having the Ghost's capabilities so great that they can't truly be expressed in gameplay, regardless of whether it's an RTS or FPS. If Ghosts were indeed as powerful as you're portraying them to be, they'd be much more powerful and a much higher tier in the game, but they're not as only heroic Ghosts are as powerful as you're describing.

Point 4. Just because Nova can complete the level, it does not mean she has to be able to take on several Zerglings at once in melee combat. It's just like how although there may be several Brutes in Halo, it does not mean that the Master Chief has to be able to take them all on at once. Instead you've got to go about it another way, like luring them out individually or take them from range. Just because there's a certain amount of units in a level, it does not mean that the player has to be able to take them all out in melee at the same time.

Point 5. Apart from a Ghost's physical capabilities being far worse than a heroic Ghost's, they're also much worse than a Zealot's or Zergling's, or that of any Zerg for that matter.

Point 6. Again, apart from a Ghost's mental capabilities being far worse than a heroic Ghost's, they're also much worse than that of a Zealot. They are however obviously more mentally capable than Zerglings, but Zerglings make use of their instincts instead.

Point 7. Terran melee weapons cannot compete with that of the Zerg or Protoss. They obviously won't be using kitchen knives, but even the Terran's top-of-the-line melee weaponry, which would not be distributed to ordinary Ghosts in the first place, would not match the Zerg's claws or Protoss' Psi Blades, as it would receive next to no funding, as there's no use for it in the first place. It would be like modern day scientists trying to perfect the bow and arrow. There's no use for it, no-one would benefit from the research and it would always be inferior to modern day weaponry.

Point 8. Protoss melee weapons are not so powerful that they cleave through anything they touch. If they did do that, then Zealots would be able to down even Ultralisks in a single hit, which is ludicrous. They'd be just like normal blades, only they've been perfected after thousands of years of development. That said, they're unable to instantly cleave through a Zergling's carapace.

Point 9. Zerg carapaces are not flimsy. They're approximately equal to the strength of Marine's suits and we've all seen that they can take a lot of punishment. They're pure-bred to be the most potent melee fighters ever, so why would they have a weak carapace? That'd be like breeding Guardians, who're bred for aerial siege, to have an attack range of zero. Also, although they may be stupid, intellect-wise, they're extremely instinctual which gives them everything that intellect would give them in regard to melee combat.

If I've left anything out, please tell me.

 

IMO, we don't even have to touch lore before stating that a melee Ghost is impossible. Gameplay comes way before lore. Giving the Ghost the role of melee damage dealer would not work as it already is a spellcaster, anti-biological and assassin/spotter of key units that use energy. Melee Ghost wouldn't fit gameplay.

 

Even without going through all that, it only takes basic logic to know:

Zealots are stronger than Ghosts -> Zealots have much stronger weapons than Ghosts -> It still takes Zealots centuries to be trusted in combat -> It still takes Zealots a while to kill Zerglings -> Ghosts don't have the physical, mental, and psionic capabilities to match a Zealot -> Ghosts have much weaker weapons -> Ghost gets his ass handed to him by Zergling

I'm not denying there's a tiny chance an average Ghost could kill a Zergling, but it's just a waste of resources lorewise and unnecessary gameplay wise. And please, don't make us repeat the same thing over and over again.

 

@GMG screw gameplay. This disscussion stopped being about gameplay a long time ago, and if you believe gameplay is all that matters I am really glad you are not on the Blizzard team.

@Itza and Wick I believ both of you are making the same mistake Zeratul is but in polar oposite form. Zeratul is making lore assumptions to the extreme while you aren't doing it enough. If you are going to convert an "in-game" unit to its lore form you need to apply a conversion that goes with the theme of the unit. You are assuming since it takes a Zealot 2-3 attacks to kill a Zergling "in-game" that must mean Zerglings have extremely power carapraces and attacks. What is stopping an "in-game" Zergling from representing 4+ weaker Zerglings? That would make a lot more sense considering the swarming nature of the Zerg and it would make Zerg carapraces more reasonable when it comes to something that was evolved instead of crafted. Almost every infantry unit in the game probably represent numerous copies of itself rather than 1-2 powerful units because of the way infantry normally outnumber heavier units by a lot more than they do in Starcraft. Probably the only exceptions to this infantry rule is the Templar and the Ghost (and Zealots to a partial degree), because these units rely more on stealth or extreme power to beat there enemies so it becomes unlikely that there is such a large number of them.

What this means is the units there truly is only a small number of (Ghosts and Templar) would be able to kill quite a few more units in the "lore" than they actually do "in-game." Which means that the odds oof a Ghost being able to beat a couple of Zerglings or a Hydralisk is quite a bit higher than what we would otherwise assume if we atributed all of a Zerglings or Hydras "in-game" strength to strength rather than numbers. The average Zealot v. the average Ghost is still of course debateable but I think the battle would be close than a lot of you are willing to believe (other than Zeratul of course), because if you removed the Zealot of its technology than it is really weaker psionicly than your average Ghost is but stronger physically along with more experience. Once you give the technology back the Ghost still loses most of the time but still puts up a way better fight than a group of Zerglings or a Hydralisk.

@Zeratul the Ghost is strong especially when we talk about lore, but most of those "real-life" tricks you talk about the Ghost using to beat another unit in combat come from using cloak and range to their advantage. Ghosts should be able to hold their own in melee for awhile but they will eventually lose because the Terrans don't have the Protoss technology or the Zerg numbers to make them effective.

 

@Lordkerwyn i Disagree with your statement that a average Zealot is psionicly weaker then a average ghost is wrong. Every protoss is releying on there psionic energy to run more of the gear that they have on. For a zealot this includes there shield and weapons, lets also add some comon sence into this. No protoss has a mouth and on a 24'7 bases have to use there mind to do almost everything in there daily life. A ghost on the other hand dose not live by the same bases as any protoss so to say a ghost is psionicly is a slap in the face to alot of zealot.

 

Gameplay is just another thing backing up the argument, especially when there's so much lore backing it up already. The teams are all equal, and gameplay is balanced, so it's at least a rough guide we can go by.

There's no real reason behind assuming that an in-game Zergling represents more weaker, lore-Zerglings. What's stopping their numbers being relatively accurately represented in-game? Just because Zerg carapaces evolved, it doesn't mean that they can't be up to the standard of other, crafted armour. It's not as though it just evolved over time, it's been augmented, altered and purified. The strongest threads of this DNA combined with the toughest threads of that to create the most durable armour possible. The same goes for almost everything about them, their claws, speed, everything.

I doubt the amount of infantry in each game is too far off either. Neither Terran nor Protoss, although Protoss are able to save most of their units, have the numbers to sustain such large battles. The Zerg seem to match them, so regardless, the in-game numbers are relatively accurate.

About the Zealots versus Ghost, if both of them have all their technology taken away, then the Zealot would still win. The Ghost's psionic capabilities are channelled and amplified through their psi-sensitive suit, so get rid of that and they'd have none, unlike the Zealot who would still be quite psionically attuned. Granted, the Zealot won't be as psionically capable as it is with equipment, but it would still have the psionic advantage over the Ghost.

 

complicated it is.... lore vs. gameplay the same they are not....

@ i2anew - funny you are,. stating a ghost with oral efficiency you have, mysterious are the protoss but.. telepathy dont tire them does it?? little i know with protoss but,.. if the protoss gets tired of telepathy, no one really knows... (getting tired of this i am)...

"in the end it doesnt even matter"

 

I am aplogize if this sounds rude but ItzaHexGor you really need to open your eyes on this one. Do you honestly believe the in-game units are a good display of the actual number ratios between units? Do you seriosuly believe that the Terrans will on average be able to to field 1 Battlecruiser for every 18 marines? Or the Zerg have only 18 Zerglings per Overlord, especially when see cinematic battles where there is nearly as many Zerglings on Screen as can be fielded in a single battle with max population...

I don't see how anyone could say the numbers are representative when there are hundreds of thousands of Terrans and millions of Zerg according to the lore, and yet the most that can be fielded in a battle between the 2 is 200 Marines with no support and 400 Zerglings with no support.

As for the disscussion of psionic power between a Ghost and a Zealot the Ghost has more raw power but has access to less technology to amplify it and control it. Here is an exceprt on the Ghost from the Sc2 site:

And here is the description of a Zealots power:

Which one sounds like more to you? All of the Protoss have psionic abilities and as a race can have far moe powerful psionic individuals than any other race, but the Ghosts are the most powerful psionics the Terran's have to offer while the Zealots are the lowest tier of Protoss psionic ability, if the best the Terran have to offer are worse than the lowest Protoss why aren't all Zealots equiped with cloaking abilities? The Protoss obviously have the technology to do it , so what makes Ghosts different if they are worse in both technology and psionic ability, something has gotta give.

 

There are 14 pages, so I'll just post this article link: http://ps2.ign.com/articles/371/371543p1.html

"There will also be at least one melee weapon in the game: a sort of Protoss/Terran technology hybrid curved psyblade that looks similar to a Klingon bat'leth, only curved inward instead of outward."

 

I don't, and didn't say I did. I just said that I value gameplay more than lore.

 

the zealot was in a sence created for its purpose as a basic Foot trooper for protoss. Giving EACH and EVERY zealot a cloack would be coast effective, Look at the coast of all units with a cloack. They all coase gas and that fro protoss wouldnt make sence at all. They are giving only what they need to do a effective job, Blades and a shield...... Humans have a personal clock but why isnt it givin to every gound unit? And guns are so interchangable why is the weapons of reaper, marauder, ghost, and marine not all rolled into one? Because it would coast too much to train someone to use all of those type of weapons and/or make the weapon itself caost to much. Dark templar converted to void energy because they chose to over psionic back then the protoss exiled half of there race but now that they have reunited do you see any mix of a DT/Zealot. thats because it's going to take way too long and more then likly coast way too much to prepare.

And i will still take a zealot over a ghoast when it comes to psionic power level. It was stated on a website that a ghost dose equal out to a zealot. No more, no less. the only way a Zealot and a ghost will NOT be equal is if there both striped of there technology since the Zealot who is proned to death dose not carry around equipment that is coastly such as psionic enhancement devices.

@freedom23, if you get tiered of having your mind herd you would just stop talking. if you do something repeatedly over and over and over it should be come easyer. If using telekinesis for a long range of years like most protoss lifes, about 900ish years and more using telekinesis to talk will not even require energy.

 

@GMG
No you said:

Since this debate stoped being about gameplay a long time ago either you can't read or you believe that since gameplay is more important than lore this debate doesn't, hence lore doesn't matter. So either way I am glad your not on the Blizzard team because you dislike lore or am I glad your not because your comprehension skills are miniscule, take your pick. And if it sounds like I am a little bit annoyed, I am and I tend to get that way when people say gameplay is more important than lore (which its not) or you use that as argument to justify something else. In this case you are using gameplay as an excuse to say why 1 side of a lore debate and the debate itself doesn't matter do I need to tell you what that makes you look like, or are you happy with just having bad comprehension skills?

@i2new I would love to tear your post apart in every way possible, but Ill ignore your numerous spelling and grammar mistakes because my own spelling and grammar isn't that hot either. First the Protoss have more advanced technology especially when it comes to the wielding and amplification of psionic energy. Zealots are in fact given extremely advanced psionic amplification devices we know as psiblades and shields, which Zealots spend hundreds of years learning how to wield and how to get the most out of them. While Ghosts are given a less advanced suit "psionic amplification suit" and somehow are able to enhance all of there physical atributes as well as turn invisible for a period of time, and Ghosts probably spend less than 20 years learning how to do this. That should make it very clear who is the stronger when it comes to raw psionic power.

If I had to pick a unit that was psionicly poweful I would choose the High Templar (which is basicly the Ghost of the Protoss), however since this debate is about Zealots v. Ghosts I would take Ghosts every time. That doesn't mean I think a fully equiped Ghost could take a fully equiped Zealot in melee, in that battle I would always pick the Zealot even though every now and then the Ghost could come out on top.

 

@LordKerwyn, Thanks for leaving my spelling out of this, i always rush the post cause i'm playing either SC or W.o.W and aslong as the word is close i kinda dont care, but onto the topic. Ghost are getting an increase bigger then what your trying to portray here. I'm not saying that there incease is as high as the protoss but its not as low as your trying to make it sound. And let me compair the protoss to a samuri here. There training the bodys a little more then they would there mind. If they focused so much on there minds they would become a high templar. There hundreds of years of training is for the melee combat more then there psionic combat, thats not what there trained for. Its only trained to an extent to use the there equipment. If they choose to go beyond that that is there choice. And there equipment cause more of there psionic energy to maintain unlike the terren ghost suit which runs out of energy very quickly. A ghost can only hold cloach for about 2-3 mins while some one like Fenix lost his energy after DAY and died when he was a zealot.

Zealot have a Greater psionic level of energy its just used in a different way.

 

dont worry, starcraft 2 rts ghost will not be base much completely on ghost lore obviously. and if you want to see or know the real thing, also the real ghost, then play starcraft:ghost or read them in stories and novels and yes its all according to lore and as you can see its very different from the rts point of view.


@itza

Point 1: She struggled? That’s because the player is noob, and that is just gameplay. If you see it that way lorewise then theres no point of making starcraft:ghost story and lore in the first place. Lorewise it didn’t happened that way, if it is then shes dead right the beginning. Also lorewise the ghost or nova is meant to win, meaning however it looked in gameplay the fact remain that nova beat them all and won the mission and that’s why she a ghost is powerful (than a zergling for sure). Like I said in real life she won’t be fighting unlimited spawning zergling and many of them at one time, rather 1 to 3 zerglings at a time in melee combat, and as many as possible with a range weapon.

Point 2. Well as far as I can tell heroic ghost pwns zerglings easily. Easily. So I believe a lesser ghost will still do fairly good against a zergling complete an average one man mission task or win in random basic melee combat encounters.


Point 4.
Who said she fought several zerglings at one time? How many is several exactly? Anyway like I said a lot of times, what happened in real life is not exactly the way it happened it game, but the point is base on the lore and story and the purpose of the game, nova can indeed beat a zergling in melee combat in real life and it doesn’t matter how she exactly in details did it.

See the halo trailer and watch masterchief jump straight to the battle field with several numbers of brutes and tanks. Its real life masterchief could be killed easily. So do you think he can survive and beat the enemies after that jumped? I believe so, coz the game lore does not tell you masterchief will get there or on that matter. So you ask how? Well just imagine, that’s real life. Masterchief could have pierce one brute with a melee weapon then use it to block off enemy attacs, when the tanks comes in, masterchief decided to run for cover, then let say he don’t have a range weapon but have an electrical melee weapon, so he then run towards the tank avoiding most blast, while on it mastercheif open the tank door and killed the brute inside while getting injured as well. After he went out there are still many brutes left, so he decided to run and escape first and do battle with them later.

In game its not like that, you go shoot shoot and wait for you shield to reload and shoot again to kill all those brutes and tanks while getting owned by the enemies. This is unlikely in real life just what you are pointing out in starcraft:ghost’s nova getting owned in game by the zergling.

But see, what im talking about is the actual thing just like the halo real life event I narrated.

So if nova or a ghost encountered multiple enemies in the game and still won. The way it happened would be similar to my halo narration and not the way it was in game.

And I did not say nova or a ghost can beat “all” enemies using only a melee combat.

I think you’ve forgotten something, we are simply debating if a ghost with a melee weapon can beat a zerling, hydralisk, or a zealot one on one. And you said no, and the worst of it your saying it like the ghost don’t have the slightest chance. I can even imagine an average real person who has enough strength to carry a huge axe kill a zergling luckily. What more by a skilled sci fi enhanced human.

Point 5. All ghost have hard and exceptional training for war… and that includes hand to hand combat and using melee weapons.

Zergling traning? I don’t think so, they are just meant to be spawn, mass and kill enemies directly with their physical attribute. Yes they have exceptional instinct for killing but one thing is for sure they are not skillful and can’t really adjust very well to battle situation unlike a ghost as in cinematic, and stories are concern.

Point 6. Instinct fails without true skill and the ghost surely have both of them while the zergling are just like mindless straight killers.

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Psyblade - why would they use it if its useless and if they don’t have the skill to fight in melee combat.

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Combat_Knife

“Ghosts are extensively trained special forces with psychic abilities. They are lightly armored and can hide their presence with a cloaking device. Their training includes channeling psionic energy to enhance their natural physical strength and endurance.”

“In physical training, Ghosts are trained in target shooting, close-quarters combat (martial arts and possibly other techniques) and vehicular expertise”
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Ghost_Program#Physical_Training

Point 7.
You don’t only need weapon in fighting, you need skill most importantly. In mythological or fantasy setting or even in real life, a knight with sword can pierce and kill a dragon. This is what im talking about. Dragoon(let say don’t uses fire) > zergling. But the dragon is killable by a skilled dragon slayer even using only a sword. And how in the world can a zergling not be killed by a sword if a dragon can be killed.

You don’t really need a top of the line advance alien like melee weapon to kill a zergling or a zealot. A gears of war chain saw could reap the zergling or a zealot in half.


Point 8. The ultralisk is just to big and heavy armored. But its not like its going to take 5 or more zealots to take it down lorewise or in real life. A single or two zealot could kill it for sure in real life but the chances are slim. This is another good example actually. In real life the zealot won’t just go charging and hack and slash, they would use theirs skills like dodge, jump, etc. and if the zealot won’t get hit by the ultralisk tusk, the zealot with some more slashes would kill it.

Just like in lord of the rings, gameplay wise the elephant is very hard to kill and it can kill and smashed all small units including heroes like Aragorn and legolas, but in real life in the movie legolas with the right skill killed it easily shooting on the top of the head. But ofcourse legolas would get killed to if he was step down by the elephant massive feet or get hit by the tusk. But the fact is it will never happen because the story is meant to be that way, and its justifiable because its back up by the lore behind legolas being a powerful elf, a skilled ranger knight Aragorn.

And that is what starcraft:ghost is like. the thing is nova or ghost is capable of doing such things that i said about them because the lore backs them up.

IMO. Zealot would cut a zergling in half in a blink of an eye in real life.

Point 9. For basic zerg like a zergling the carapace is there just to reduce minor not precise hits etc… not that it will actually protect them from lethal and powerful attack.

Imo, zergling just go straight and attack in melee combat and they don’t care who they are facing. Anyway they are not facing just some random civilian here with no experience on fighting and killing. Ghost imo would pwn zergling 90% of the time one one one in melee combat lorewise.



From starcraft:ghost site.

“Not only does Nova's superior conditioning give her a physical edge over her opponents, but her psi powers also give her a speed advantage as well. Using her psi speed power, Nova can quicken her movements to such a degree that the rest of the world seems to come to a literal standstill. This power is extremely draining on her psi energy reserves, but when she uses it, she moves at superhuman speeds while her enemies move drastically slower, enabling her to easily dodge their attacks and outmaneuver them.”


“At his command, she used her telepathic skills to scan the minds of Fagin's associates, root out disloyalty, and even kill. As a rogue telepath, she could not help reading the thoughts and emotions of the people around her. It wasn't long before she dreamed of death. “


A ghost or nova can actually do a lot of out of this world stuff. Its just unfortunate we did not see or know this in starcraft 1 and not in starcraft 2 rts game as well.

Also we are not talking about in game melee ghost here anymore. But good enough ghost in melee combat fighting zergling, hydralisk, or even a zealot one on one.

 

I just wanna point this out caus its a major facter point here.

for those of you who want to grade ghost vs zealot on a scale of Psionic energy this is a GOOD freaking point right here. Nova (Hero ghost) dose this to dodge and evade attacks. She speeds up her body to out speed the average units. To an extent Zealot do the same thing. In SC2 do te zealot not get a charge???? WAIT. i thinkthey do....... If this is the case the have become so well at three charging they dont require energy at all? How would you explain this but when nova dse it it drains the hell out of her??