Melee Combat Ghost.

impossible to incorporate? the rts version plays differenty, but in starcraft ghost you see the actual battles on an upclose perspective.

for example in war hammer, when you play the commander in the rts part of the game he only do basic stuffs like shoot, run, and slash.

but the actual happening would look like this. cinematic lore or in real life.

http://au.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/14...awn-of-war-ii/videos/WarhammeDawnofWarII.html

in game that ork would be hard to kill and the commander can't jump like that. but the movie shows the real thing that could happen.

thats also it would be like for starcraft. in rts you play them simple and basic, but in lore or movies you see a clear perspective of how a ghost acts etc.. not just shoot and wait for zergling to come near her and tear her apart. even what you see or how you play in starcraft: ghost is not the actual thing happening, but the point is nova beat zerglings etc.. in game, meaning she done it also lorewise but in an actual realistic manner and yes not just by mass shooting etc just like in game.

 

Ummm, dude, you basically just proved my point. In StarCraft:Ghost, they show the close up perspective, right? You've used that to back up a lot of your statements. Well, Nova getting owned by a couple of Zerglings in StarCraft:Ghost is the upclose perspective of a heroic Ghost, with both Cloak and with a gun, when fighting some Zerglings. Despite being a hero, being Cloaked and having a gun, she's still getting ripped by them, so imagine what would it would be like if she didn't have Cloak, didn't have a gun and wasn't a hero.

 

Not to mention the realism of that. A few stabs and shes dead.

 

just play starcraft:ghost and lets see who gets own. ok.

you beat the game. won all the mission. everyone got own except nova. got it.

you watch some cinematics and shows how nova beats a pair of zergling easily in melee combat.... even tho you did it differently in game. but the main point is that the story tells that nova a ghost beat the enemies... and beat a zealot in battle using melee combat with an improvised terran psi blade. and zergling did not own nova.

if you are advance player, you get to beat the zergling without losing health. and if your a noob you either dead or half dead after beating the lings.

and please dont ignore my warhammer example and my explanation about it relating to gameplay to the real life view of it.

 

Just play StarCraft:Ghost and see who gets owned? That's a laugh. See how many times she gets owned along the way would be more accurate. Try getting through the whole of StarCraft:Ghost and with no deaths. You know why it'd be hard? Because Nova cannot take on absolutely everything. She will still get owned in tonnes of situations and you'll have to try again. StarCraft:Ghost has been designed for Nova to win, just like how in StarCraft1, the team you're playing for is designed to win. It doesn't mean that she's or they're all powerful and have no chance at losing.

Obviously if you play the game Nova won't die, just like how if you play the StarCraft1 campaigns, Kerrigan won't die. The thing is that that doesn't mean that you can just charge her out and start blasting away at everything, because she'll obviously die. Just like how in StarCraft:Ghost, despite having all the advantages, Nova should not charge out against two or three Zerglings.

I did not ignore your Dawn of War example, it's just irrelevant. In Dawn of War, the units are programmed to actually fight each other and not just sit their spamming their attack animation like they do in StarCraft. So not only is Dawn of War both an overall perspective as well as an upclose perspective, but in that trailer you posted, when you compare it with Psionicz's video, the Ork is the equivalent of Nova and the Space Marine is the equivalent of the Zerglings.

Psionicz video is surely proof enough. A heroic Ghost with Cloak and a gun, getting owned by a couple of Zerglings. Now imagine how much more powerful Nova would be when compared to a normal Ghost and imagine what would happen if it was a normal Ghost, without Cloak and no gun.

 

i have to agree. If a powerful ghost like nova, with all her equipment all training can't even 2 zerglings, how can a average ghost armed only with a melee weapon (a sword I assume), take out even one. I also think a ghost would not be able to use a psi-blade, or whatever as it would have a strong enough mind to operate it, so thats why I think the ghost would only use a sword.

 

hahah. You never did understand or maybe your just ignoring my main point about the way you play it in game doesn't exactly refelct what happened in real life. but the thing is, the storyline tells pretty much what happened in the end or in certain events regardless of how you play it.. Starcraft:ghost tells the story of nova beating up enemies and completing missions, she owned and she did not die. But in game you play whatever and however you want it (you get own sometime if your not good, you die, etc..), but in the end what matter is, in the story nova a ghost beats the crap out of her enemy and won missions... how? well not exactly the way you played it. but rather from a realistic point of view (check out the CINEMATICS or STORIES etc... just like in all other games). and its according to lore... that nova more or less still a ghost clearly have potential to do so.

yes just like all other games. designed to win? ofcourse thats the story and thats the truth. your not going to win if your just a peasant in warcraft and fight dragoons etc. and when you use power overwhelming and win the mission thats not how exactly the story is after beating the game would be like. the ghost in starcraft:ghost is designed to win because she can win because its according to the story which includes that she has the right stuff to do it.

Have you played console games? just like in resident evil, leon well just a mere human compared to a ghost, faces way stronger monsters than a zergling like a giant troll etc... the story tells that you beat the troll tho in a different in how you play it, when you play it you just shoot shoot and get hit back, but as you see what really happened in real life, leon might have done it differently ofcourse that troll would not be that hard to be killed compared to the in game version. The fact is in real life or story wise leon beat killed and get passed from the troll to proceed, but it doesn't mean he did it in real life just like the way you played it where you are actually getting own but not getting killed because of health points. So you ask how? the cinematic and stories etc tells what really happened, maybe in the cinematic you can see leon dodges some few hammer strikes, then leon shoot some, then somehow got the troll in the eye afterwards leon climb the thing and start cutting the virus at the back of the troll and then killed it. that easy, lucky or not, more skillful or less skillful. the thing is leon is capable to do so in real life.

Yes they are indeed powerful. i did not say the ghost have no chance of losing. Starcraft: ghost jsut proves that ghost are indeed powerful and can take on some few zerglings etc.

Another good example is gta? you see you win the missions and beat "some" cops in the story (which is the real thing that happened). not like in game like you faces hordes of police but still be able to escape and not getting killed. in real life the gta hero would get killed in one shot, but the point is the story tells that the gta hero won and beat bad guys (yes shown in some cutscenes, the real thing), but not exactly how the way you played it. the gta hero is indeed skill to pull it off in real life.

Yes kerrigan will not die because the story tells it so , andshe is skillful and its not like you are going to see her fight hordes of marines and battlecruiser lorewise just like in game.

Who said she was going to charge straight on? in game you can do it that way, but like i said million of times the story, cinematics, novels, better if detailed, tells what exactly happen. So if you beat 3 zergling in melee combat in starcraft ghost, then she can do it lorewise maybe shown in cinematics or told in stories but not exactly how you did it in game.

irrelevant? its because dawn of war is a different game, they can make starcraft like dawn of war, where marines now can stab and kick zerglings, hit them with their huge guns, dark templar climbing a thor and hitting the cockpit for the last killer move, zealots dodging and doing crazy moves, thor stumping down on units.... and yes ghost in melee combat with a melee weapon even just for visual jumping while attacking enemies and so on.

Space marine are not really mastered skilled in melee combat, as seen in cutscenes, pictures, sotiers etc.. but they know basic melee attack. they use chainsaw when necessary etc.

now a ghost more physically fit and flexible would surely be capable of melee combat as well.


the ork is nova? ya right.

i see the orki as a hydralisk or zerlgin.... see how the ork miss with its first hammer strike and the commander jumps and kill it.

the ghost would obviously ca do the same thing but not exaggeratedly like that. the ghost can jump/side step dodge a zergling attack and then proceed with the melee attack.

Thats just in game and like all other games, it depends on the player. you either get own or owned you enemy gameplay wise. but the thing is, if you beat and win the game, the game is supposedly designed like that and is back up by lore. and thats what it is supposed to be lorewise/storywise/real life and being back up by lore the main hero is indeed CAPABLE to do so.

just like nova... a ghost.

 

Look, you said yourself that StarCraft:Ghost is the upclose perspective of what a Ghost can do, right? But now that StarCraft:Ghost has been used to prove you wrong, you're saying it's wrong as well. First you were all for it, saying stuff like look at all the awesome things that Ghosts (read Nova) can do, but now that it's shown what she can't do, you're disregarding it.

Also, StarCraft:Ghost would actually have been sensationalised, so Nova, etc, would be even more powerful and skilful than they would be in real life. StarCraft:Ghost shows all the things heroic Ghosts can do, and more. So if Nova, who's a hero and has also been sensationalised, cannot take on a few Zerglings with a gun and Cloak, then a normal Ghost definitely wouldn't be able to.

Just because StarCraft:Ghost tells us the story of some of Nova's missions, it does not mean that she's able to take on Zerglings, Hydralisks, Zealots, etc. Besides, even if she was able to , normal Ghosts would not stand a chance as they aren't nearly as powerful as heroic Ghosts. Look at a normal Ghost when compared to Kerrigan, because that's basically the difference between heroic and normal Ghosts. If Nova has trouble taking on a few Zerglings with Cloak and a gun, then normal, unarmed Ghosts wouldn't stand a chance.

Just because Nova may have the capabilities to complete the missions, it doesn't mean she can take on a few Zerglings. If she's being owned in that situation, then that's obviously not the right way of doing it, so other methods have to be used. For example, it's easy to fail missions in the StarCraft1 campaigns, but that doesn't mean that it can't be done. In StarCraft:Ghost, Nova obviously can't win in that situation so she has to go about it another way. Yes, she's got the capabilities to complete the mission, but that does not correspond to having the capabilities to take on a few Zerglings.

StarCraft:Ghost does not show that Ghosts are powerful, they show that heroic Ghosts are powerful. It does not show that Ghosts can take on a few Zerglings, it shows that even heroic Ghosts can be taken down by a few Zerglings, even with Cloak and a gun.

My StarCraft1 analogy was meant to show you that there will be situations in which Kerrigan, etc, can die. You can't dispute that that's not the case. If you get her into a poor enough situation, then she'll die. This is exactly what happened to Nova in the StarCraft:Ghost video. Just because Nova's able to finish the level, it doesn't mean that she'd be able to beat those Zerglings.

You misunderstood my analogy, so I'll go over it again. It's easy for any hero to die in StarCraft1, right? All that has to happen is for the hero to accidentally run into more enemy units than he or she can handle. If that happens, the hero will most likely die and you'll lose the mission. However, that doesn't mean that the mission is impossible, as there are tonnes of other ways to go about completing it. In order to finish the mission, you've got to avoid running into those units because you cannot take them on. This is exactly what's happened to Nova in StarCraft:Ghost. She's run into more enemy units than she can handle, chances are she'll die and you'll lose the mission. However, that doesn't mean that she cannot finish the level, as there are other ways of going about it. In order to complete the mission, she's got to avoid running into those Zerglings because she cannot take them on.

Dawn of War is not irrelevant because it's a different game, it's irrelevant because it incorporates both the overall perspective and upclose perspective into the game itself. That's not what you were originally saying. You said in-game they just run stab and shoot, but they're actually doing this, which is wrong, as they actually do fight like that in-game.

Space Marines, excluding Scouts, are actually masters of melee combat. They might not be as skilled in melee as Tyranid or the Orks, but they aer much, much, much more skilled in melee than the Terran. The proof? Their Assault Marines, Assault Terminators, Commanders, Dreadnoughts, and their Chainfists, Force Weapons, Power Weapons, Power Fists, Lightning Claws, Storm Shields and Thunder Hammers, not to mention that all their units and squads have the same Weapon Skill as the do Ballistic Skill. No race that isn't skilled in melee combat would have so many melee fighters and weaponry. The Terran are basically the opposite. They have no skill in melee combat and therefore have no melee fighters and obviously next to no melee weaponry.

The reason I compared the Ork to Nova is because they're the ones getting owned in each video. That's why I said "in that trailer you posted, when you compare it with Psionicz's video...", which is why reading is your friend.

StarCraft:Ghost is sensationalised. Ghosts in it would be much more powerful than in the real StarCraft universe. They do this in order to make it more enjoyable and make more sales. Ghosts in the real StarCraft universe would not be more powerful than sensationalised heroes because what would be the point in that? There's no reason to have the lore behind the Ghost so powerful that it cannot be represented in the RTS or the sensationalised FPS, which is why it's not.

About the skill of the player, etc, why would they release gameplay videos of complete noobs playing StarCraft:Ghost? That would be like seeing a StarCraft2 gameplay video between two people who can't play StarCraft.

Summing up, StarCraft:Ghost is sensationalised. Nova is a sensationalised heroic Ghost with Cloak and a gun and still cannot defeat a few Zerglings in an open fight. Nova is much, much more powerful than an ordinary Ghost. The ordinary Ghost wouldn't not have all Nova's advantages. The normal Ghost is not as powerful, doesn't have the same physical and mental capabilities, doesn't have a gun and doesn't have Cloak. Nova got snapped by a couple of Zerglings, so a Ghost would have no chance in a similar situation.

You've seen all the proof so how can you still deny it? Nova with all the advantages gets owned by a few Zerglings, so how can you expect a normal Ghost without all the advantages to win in the exact same situation?

 

OMG, you guys really have nothing else better to do then argue over the power of a ghost/heroic ghost. Its one man vs 15 other people who agree a ghost can barly hold its own with zerglings and zealots so heres what i propose. we take a vote. Simple say ghost if you thing the ghost is a better melee or zergling/zealot if you wanna go with other melee choices... Lets let the people decide from there point of view what they think and that will be the final decider......... Personaly this topic has died a very long time ago and was not strong from the start. The only thing that killed this topic is giving up a RANGED weapon (that should be a football fields range away) for in your face melee.........

VOTE NOW: Ghost or Other Melee
let the people decide this cause words are failing to prove the point, lets have numbers prove the point.
And lets not go there with the Hero ghost crap cause the moment you throw in a hero zealot/zergling/hydralisk your done hands down, no contest.......


MY VOTE:
other melee

 

Other melee. No question.

 

you just dont butt in and point out everything as easy as that.

our discussion pretty much helps determines and proves which one is right.

and we are not talking about which one is better in melee combat. We are trying to clear out if a ghost can take on a zergling, hydralisk, or zealot in melee combat and win.

Lets just wait what blizzard will do. Lets wait for their stories. Lets wait for their version.

 

Any stories they release will be about heroic Ghosts, as they're the only ones worth talking about, so none f their stories, etc, will tell us whether a Ghost can take out melee fighters. Based on what we know, being that even a sensationalised Nova with Cloak and a gun can get owned by some Zerglings, so logically normal Ghosts without such advantages wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell at coming out on top.

 

LOL I agree, but it would be cool to see a malee combat Ghost. :radar:

 

No it wouldnt theres no logic to a melee combat ghost. and leme list the facts and resons why!

zergling have melee cause they come in freaking mass numbers.
Zealots have a shield that can take a hit before they even get touched, and in SC2 they have a charge so now there just OP when its the case of melee combat.
but a ghost? OH NOOOO! not only are they suppost to be rare in humans but they dont have a shield. So whats the point in having the unit that like i said could easly shoot you from a mile away be getting in anyones face. Theres just no logic to it unless your gun is damaged.

Another question i wanna as is how many melee weapons where u givin in SC:ghost and how many range weapons where givin? if theres a bigger option in range thats the answer to your question.

 

I think by now we almost had every1's sides and opinions... if we keep arguing about its benefits/small comings i bet were just gonna go round circles again... and again... (BTW there is a logic, but im too tired to explain all over again since, the ghost is in-game range anyways, lets stick to that..) Lore-wise its logical

anyway here is the answer to that question of yours...

SC:ghost isnt applicable since its not about nova nor does this tackle about melee weapons in that game.. but for humanities sake there was 1 melee weapon that was purposedly design to cut diamonds or crystals of sort... the FUSION CUTTER!!! lol (its still melee legally almost as powerful as raw u-238 shells)

 

ok, so u have a choice of 1 melee weapon, and like 100 different guns i guess. so heres the BIG clue. your suppost to be shooting..... if your trained with 50 guns, plz just stick to shooting and not melee combat which was more then likly last on a ghosts training list.

 

Lets just wait.

heroic ghost? ok, when it stated its just a plain ghost then its a ghost, period. and if it shows and tells it beats a zergling in melee combat and vice versa then thats it.

That video alone is not a good reason a ghost can be owned by zergling. that is just game play. i mean come on the ghost was just basically stading there and firing back.The zegling even in game dont die easily as well as the ghost. But you don't base purely on the gameplay, like i said the realistic view of it is seen in cinematic or told in stories. In real life the ghost would fire hard and dodge few attacks fire back and then the zergling is dead. Same as with a melee weapon, its not going to take you forever to kill the thing if you are a "ghost".

@i2new.

if you read most of posts, you don't need to say things like that. We are not talking about ghost with melee weapon in game or if they are favorable with melee combat than range weapons.

all im saying is ghost are capable of fighting in melee combat and can beat a zergling. Even an ordinary man like us with sci fi sword can kill a zergling...tho we need a miraculous very lucky chance.

The discussion is about, Can a ghost in melee combat with or without a melee weapon fight and beat a single zergling, hydralisk, or zealot? ok i admit a ghost without a melee weapon against a zealot is dead, but thats about it.

 

You were the one using StarCraft:Ghost gameplay as proof that Ghosts would be able to take on such things earlier. Firstly, Nova wasn't just standing there, she was actually moving around and away from the Zerglings meaning that they couldn't find her because she was Cloaked, which also meant that the Zerglings had to come one at a time because they couldn't properly see where she was. She was also shooting at them, and it still took a fair effort to take each one out, but would still be quicker than if she was wielding a melee weapon. Then there's also the fact that StarCraft:Ghost would have been sensationalised in order to make more sales.

Blizzard would not make the lore behind a unit so powerful that it is impossible to properly incorporate it into any game, regardless of whether it's an RTS, FPS or whatever. There would be absolutely no point for them to do such a thing, which is why Ghosts are not as powerful lore-wise as you're saying they are.

 

going back to i2new@aol.com's vote:
other melee
this conversation is just going in circles, using lots of long type answers.

 

Why ghosts can't beat Zerglings in melee:

Zealot is many times stronger than ghost

Zealot uses psiblades, many times stronger than any Terran melee weapon, let alone fists

Psiblades still take a lot of skill and centuries of training to kill Zerglings

Ghosts don't have that kind of skill, strength, or time to train

Marines firing gauss rifles at Mach who-knows-how-fast can't kill Zerglings one on one, even if the fight starts out ranged

Even with genetic modifications and cybernetic implants Ghosts can't deliver a blow with enough power and speed to defeat a Zergling

Ghost < Zergling < Zealot