Melee Combat Ghost.

why does everyone compare an unarmed ghost to the armed zealots and naturally strong zerglings? isnt the idea of the thread to give them a melee weapon?

i read somewhere that ghosts were givin reverse-enginered psiblades in starcraft ghost. i think this may work and make the ghost more independent (and thus more spec-ops-y) and if the ghost can still not take out a zealot (in hand-to-hand combat anyway) it wouldn't be spammed.

 

Theres no such offense commited by this thread so lets proceed... btw im tired of reading those posts that are so longer than even a page and those posts that are quoting others posts multiple times... actually i dont see the purpose of multi-quoting the person above your post since he knows what he posted.. people are not dumb, you dont have to instill again what has been written already,,, not that it only makes the readers annoyed it also adds a lil bit of shame points to the one who got quoted as it looked like it was so wrong to say something like that..

anyway IMO the idea of a melee ghost will probably end up in either a Campaign mode possibilty or will just remain a fictional belief of what could have been... I dont see anything wrong with having a melee ghost, but i just definitely dont want it to be in an RTS game where you have to again micro those micro units... for all players sake pls do not turn the ghost into something more detailed than it already is as it just opens up tons of questions and other possibilities not only for the ghost but every unit in the game....

 

@ zeratul11. If you're not talking about melee Ghosts any more, why don't you 'repeat' what you're talking about now instead of just saying that you're not talking about them, and then expect everyone to read through pages and pages of mostly irrelevant information?

@ overmind. The reason people are comparing unarmed Ghosts to armed Zealots is because the original scenario, or at least one of the original scenarios, was that the Ghost had forgotten his or her gun, for some reason. Now if Ghosts forget their gun, I doubt they've remember their melee weapon, seeing as they never use them anyway. Besides, zeratul11 was going on about punching and kicking through walls, etc, which is also why people were comparing unarmed Ghosts. Weapons were briefly mentioned, being fusion cutters, but that was also shot down seeing as that's what SCV's used and they're clearly not designed to even attempt to compete with the Zerg's genetics or Protoss' psiblades, etc.

Even if Ghosts were given 'reverse-engineered psiblades', they wouldn't even be remotely close to that of the Zealot, seeing as the Protoss are both technologically and psychically superior to the Terran. Ghosts do not have the durability or the numbers to be effective melee fighters, not to mention that even if they did, they'd still be more effective from a distance than they ever could be in melee combat. Melee Ghosts wouldn't help the gameplay at all and it certainly wouldn't make them more independent, so there's no reason for them to be given a melee attack mode, nor would there be a use for it.

@ freedom23. The use of multi-quoting the one person is exactly the same as normal quoting. It's to respond to each point individually, and is also useful as a quick-reference to both the poster and reader. The idea is to only quote the part which you're responding to, and not to quote several paragraphs and then respond to a single point. As long as it's done properly, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

 

also @ itza.

if your read all of my post im sure you wouldn't be asking that.

yes these thread was for the idea of giving ghost a melee weapon in game. And i said many reason why they can actually have one. Ok, i admit and realize that ghost doesn't really need a melee weapon for combat in game.

after that, me and and itza were alrady talking about lorewise or in rael life situation about ghost fighting in melee combat against zergling, hydralisk, or a zealot. again lets forget the main idea about the ghost having melee weapon in game.

Lets go straight to the point. Can a ghost beat a zergling / hydralsik / zealot one on one in real life? thats it.

ok, itza says ghost dont have a chance.

i say they have a good chance of winning.

and if ever the ghost can win against a zealot regardless of how he/she did it, it doesn't mean they should use melee combat now as one of their primary weapon. and i agree with that because guns and range is way better.

im just pointing out that ghost can actually beat a zerling, hydralsik, or a zealot one one one, regardless if the chances is high or not.

 

Against a Zealot, definitely not. Zealots are taller, tougher, better equipped, better trained for melee combat and have greater physical and mental capabilities.

Against a Hydralisk, again, no. Again, it's taller, tougher, have greater physical capabilities, and can still use their poisonous, super accelerated Needle Spines. They're also presumably more flexible and have greater reach in their attacks, etc, due to them having over four thousand muscles in their body and an extremely serpentine skeletal structure.

Against Zerglings, which have to be counted in pairs because otherwise it's like having a dual between a Ghost and half a Hydralisk, again, again, no. For the Ghost to be able to strike a Zergling, the Zergling would have to be able to strike the Ghost. Seeing as Zerglings have around four times the number of striking appendages than the Ghost would have, assuming that the Ghost is not dual wielding in which case the Zergling would still have twice the number, and also seeing as Zerglings are literally bred for melee combat, the Zergling would be much better off, especially seeing as there'd still be another Zergling backing him up. Against a single Zergling the Ghost would have a chance, but I'd much rather be in the Zergling's shoes.

However, at range, a Ghost would be the victor by a long, long, long way, possibly being able to even take out up to five or six of each in one sitting.

 

Don't get us wrong tho Zeratul11, we are not trying to destroy your ideas or anything but since its a debate, you know :]
I like discussions like these anyway, make more.

But remember this, the Ghost is way more intelligent than a Zergling or a Hydralisk so there may be a slight chance.

For example when the two Zerglings charge, the Ghost can confuse them with extatic hand movements or start screaming which would throw off the Zerglings only slightly, and then the Ghost is able to evade some attacks as the back claws are their primary weapons when they havn't pounced or got a hold of you so they are blockable, but even if they get blocked it would be to no avail as the Ghost gets tired and the Zergling is barely breaking a sweat as for it its just the same as us doing a minor punch since they got spikes to back it up.
But lets say the Ghost had some type of rope or another objects, they could get the Zerglings entangled then flee or kill them somehow.
But in this scenario the Zerglings are much better off simply because they are tough as fúck and a punch or kick wouldn't actually hurt them.

I won't go into the Hydralisk or Zealot scenario as in my mind I see no ways the Ghost could win in open combat.

To put it simple lol just look at the movie Alien vs Predator and attach the Predators with psionic abilities and shields, then give the Aliens boosted capabilities, and its gg.

 

Against a zealot:
No way. As stated before a zealot as every advantage, stronger, better training, superior technology, a more advance intelligence. In short game over for the ghost

Against a hyrdalisk:
Again no way. A hydra is super strong, and has the longest range out of all the combats due to its range spikes. Even if for some reason the hydra didn't shoot its spines, it's still bigger, has a longer reach and is much tougher. Not to mention its tougher then a ghost as well. Again a lose for the ghost

Against a zergling:
This depends on whether the zerglings are in pairs or on its own. In pairs the ghost will lose. While the zergling is a little weaker than a ghost its just as fast and there is two of them. So even if the ghost managed to take out one zergling, the other would just gorge him to death. On its own however I think a ghost has a good shot of winning. Because zerglings aren't the brightest of creatures, the ghost superior intellect could prove the deciding factor. As mentioned above, the ghost could distract the zergling somehow. Other than intelligence the ghost and the zergling are fairly equal, with maybe the ghost being a bit stronger. So i think there is a 60 40 favor for the ghost to win against a zergling on its own. However, how many zerglings do you see on their own.

 

Lol how many Zerg do you see alone.

 

zerglings get spawned by two, but they can scout one at a time, and since the ling is not likely to survive even with two, if they encounter anything it would be more cost worthy to have one scouting. (i always use single zergling scouts...)

THATS how many zerg you see alone...

 

@ Psionicz. Ghosts may have a higher IQ, but Zerglings would be extremely battle-smart. They'd hardly have to think anything over seeing as it would all be instinctual to them.

About distracting them, I highly doubt that waving your arms or shouting would throw off a Zergling. Seeing as Firebat blasts, which instantly unleashed a massive wall of fire directly at the Zergling that not only appears very suddenly, it would obviously be a lot more sudden and off putting that waving arms or shouting, but also completely blocks the Zerglings' line of sight, don't put Zerglings off, there isn't really anything that will.

Also, I find it extremely low that anyone would use accented letters just so that they can swear without being censored. Censorship exists for a reason.

@ Cannonfodder. I agree with everything except, again, for the distracting. Not only are battlefields completely filled with other targets, explosions and other such distractions, I highly doubt a Ghost would be able to put off a Zergling. They'd continue charging at Firebats with an unbroken stride despite having a torrent of fire instantly unleashed in their face, and seeing as a Ghost, armed or unarmed, wouldn't be able to top something like that, the Zerglings would not be effected. Again, about intelligence, Zerglings don't have to be smart, they just have to be instinctual, which they are. They'd still dodge attacks, go for openings, etc, etc, despite not being as intellectual as Ghosts as it's just a natural instinct, and seeing as Zerglings have been genetically bred for optimal strength, speed and fighting instincts, intellect would not be an issue.

@ overmind. Lone Zergling scouts are only used extremely early on and wouldn't be used by the time the Terran player has Ghosts. Besides, that would be under gameplay conditions, which isn't the case here. The case here is having the Ghost dual with certain enemies. Seeing as you'd never ask whether a Ghost would win against half a Hydralisk, it's pointless to ask whether it'd win against a single Zergling.

 

Also, Zerglings have a hive mind, which mean that it's not their intelligence/instincts that matters so much as the skill of the cerebrate or overmind that was giving them the orders. That means they're going to be harder to distract than Terrans or Protoss because they don't have their own consciousness. Zerg will also be much better coordinated than Ghosts ever will be because they're governed by one consciousness, unlike ghosts. And Zerg units aren't going to care about themselves as long as they kill their enemy. As long as they're under control of the hive mind, they can't form any conscious decisions. Like you said, they'll act on instinct, but they're not going to be making any huge choices on their own, that's the cerebrate's job. IMO that makes them even more lethal because they'll go all out on their enemies unlike Ghosts who'll try to escape certain death.

 

so like a single zergling cannot attack or function at all.

ghost vs zergling. i believe a ghost would own a zerling even in melee combat one on one.

and just sharing something. http://x-venom-x.deviantart.com/art/That-Hideous-Strength-84626275

 

who would have known that a mere ideal thought of being melee would be such a controversy ^_^

anyway, im just wondering why ghosts arent using their psi powers in terms like "telekinesis" since its one of the basic abilities a psychic can do..

oh and btw I NOW do believe that a ghost can take out a zergling or two in melee only given that his cannister rifle will be convertible into something of long and sharp weapon that can be easily handled to at least give him a chance to defend himself against those other melee units with shorter range of attack...

the only chance that a ghost will win is that if it remains cloaked, undetected by zealots(psyche), and unscented by zerg units.. otherwise -----> it is a good day to die

 

@ zeratul11. If you think that just because a single Zergling's consciousness is one with the Swarm means that it wouldn't be able to attack or function at all is just like saying a lone Ghost would not have been trained or equipped by the Terran's training facilities. This isn't a debate about if a completely isolated and unattached Zergling can take on an lone, self taught and self equipped Ghost, it's about whether a Zergling (or in all actuality, two) that has been separated from the rest of the Swarm, thus having access to the hive mind, etc, can take on a Ghost that has been separated from his or her force, thus having access to all training and equipment. Completely removing and isolating the Zergling(s) from the hive mind would mean you had to completely remove and isolate a Ghost from his or her training facilities and equipment. If one is completely detached, then the other has to be as well.

I still haven't heard a remotely convincing point from you that would demonstrate that a Ghost can beat a Zergling or two.

That picture really doesn't prove anything at all, not has it got any relevance to anything, so I dunno why you thought it would be worthwhile to bring it up. So, just in case that was supposed to prove something, allow me to present the disproof. Mine's officially direct from Blizzard, and I think we've all seen it before. If not, enjoy. It was my favourite cinematic.

[youtube]oqqEh-rWy_s[/youtube]

That's your average Ghost for ya. Seriously think that can take on a Zergling? Yet alone two?

@ freedom23. The reason that Ghosts aren't using telekinesis and stuff is because most don't ahve the psionic capabilities to. It's true that it's probably one of the most basic psionic abilities, but normal Ghosts just aren't that capable.

About having a long melee weapon, like using a canister rifle or something, swinging something that long hard enough to break through a Zergling's carapace would be extremely slow. Just imagine swinging a broom or something and think how long it would take to swing it back or even just to change direction mid-swing. Zerglings aren't morons. If they see something heavy being swung at their head, they're going to move out of the way, and given their speed and agility, it wouldn't be hard to do so. Firstly, not only is it going to potentially hurt the Zergling, but it's also an obstacle in the way of its target. If there was a box or broken branch between the Zergling and the Ghost, the Zergling isn't just going to try and run straight through it and end up tripping itself up, it's obviously going to speed around or over it as quickly as possible.

 

that is why i said that it will be just a fighting chance to defend himself and still having the advantage of cloaking or being unscented.. otherwise as you say, its all zerglings playground and no mere 2 footed terran will ever outlast hand-2-claw battle with a pair of two... oh and ive also noted that the convertible weapon should be very maneuverable (all that is left is melee-weapon proficiency)...

zerglings are morons i'd say, without a doubt they are just puppeteered insects with no actual intellect but your point is absolute and im not arguing that, its just pure instinct and cluster drive control that they act wildly as they do.. otherwise theyre just free floaters and warfreaks like in SC1 lost command zergs w/o the cerebrate or overminds

 

Zerglings may intellectually be morons, but intellect is not required for fights like these. Zergling consist of pure-bred fighting instincts. If something's being swung at it at a great speed, it's going to get out of the way and given their speed they'll almost always be able to. If they see a slight opening or anything, they're going to absolutely throw themselves at it. It's calculated in the slightest, it's just pure, inbred instinct. Watch a lion or something fighting and watch how they act. They're obviously about as intellectual as a Zergling and don't calculate or plan anything that they're going to do, but they're extremely powerful and dangerous. Swing something at it, they'll try to get out of the way. Expose a weak spot, they'll exploit it. Perform any action even remotely related to melee combat, and they'll be right there with you. Melee combat has nothing to do with intellect, especially when it's so inbred and instinctual like that.

 

i have not read the last 3 posts etc.

yah i know itza, you love that sc1 ghost to death.

yes that ghost can't take on a zergling. yes 10 years ago. i thought it was badass and cool. i realize now its gay and lame. sc1 ghost.

thats not the ghost im talking about and not obviously the ghost blizzard wants in the first place. that ghost is a MISTAKE! thats 10 years ago, everything was ok. hell not now.

that ghost is the opposite of what ghost are supposed to be like lorewise.

fortunately we wont be seeing that kind of ghost in sc2. xp

V see my sig. that is what starcraft should be like. and it shows just only the marine (yeah compare it to the marine in your beloved sc1 cinematic). now imagine what the "true" ghost would be like... in the "new" starcraft. now according to its lore. and im not talking about in game but lorewise.

 

Well you should. Ignoring Itza's and freedom's arguments won't make them go away. Not replying to the posts says to me that you cannot counter their arguments.

You're putting words in Blizzard's mouth. Not nice.

 

i did not read it because i was in a rushed. I just noticed the video and itza comments on it.

^ well why is blizzard lore for the ghost completely different from that rambo sissy ghost then?

and yes the ghost lore came after, meaning that ghost in starcraft 1 was likely a mistake. All we know about them in sc1 is that they cloak and shoot their shotgun and call down nukes and chicken out from battles in cinematic.

thats not a perfect and complete representation of a ghost as far as the lore and description about them is concern.

 

Itza I am sorry to say if you think that video is valid then you are going to prove even heroic Zealots are pathetic as well. Remember Fenix lost to a single Hydralisk, those videos are just crap when it comes to modern Starcraft lore.

Again an average Ghost equiped with decent melee gear (or at least a Starcraft era Terran melee weapon or two) should be able to beat 2-3 Zerglings more than half of the time and a Hydralsik a litt more than half of the time. A Zealot is way less likely because it plays the same game the Ghost would, but because of technology and race the Zealot does it better.