Marine (continued)

What i was suggesting wasnt nessecarily an upgrade more of a different way to do a similar amount of damage that would sense with a melee attack.

 

Like I said, all you can really do without affecting the gameplay and therefore requiring other units to be rebalanced is to change the attack animation. The unit would do the same damage as it would with its rifle, but when a unit got close it would start slashing.

But from a basic point of view, I don't want the bayonet anyway. For instance what you're talking about now. It just creates unnecessary problems with no added benefit. Heck, I doubt it would even look cooler.

 

Focus fire is such an useful feature (I'm always bringing that one up : ), why would a unit that can shoot from afar prefer to attack with melee? To attack as a group>attack as separate units. Wouldn't make much sense unless the increase in damage is a lot worthy, and thus it could uncharacterize the unit, making it preferable to engage in close combat.

If somehow Blizzard finds a way to make this 2 way of attacking work, for let's say Hydras, perhaps it would be interesting as counter to Zealots and at same time as counter to 'cliff-jumpers' (allowing the Hydras to hit targets away from their reach at same time). I don't know.

Marines can't/shouldn't have it anyway, it doesn't suit them, as they rely too much on hiding in bunkers and focus-fire to beat enemies. Close range for them wouldn't make much sense, imho.

 

I agree with jon. The marine shouldn't even have bayonets anyway. and if they do then there attacks shouldn't change. considering that zerglings are way faster than marines then zerglings could maybe and would maybe defeat a marine... so and
i forgot the name of the person comparing this game to DOW. The marines in DOW go through genetic mutations also hundreds of years of training. marines in starcraft are what.... cannon fodder. The marines in Dow also are way stronger and better equiped for combat. AND on top of that they have huge ass hand knives. The only weapon in the marine arsenal that is used as a ranged weapon and as well as for melee is the heavy bolter because it is way heavier than the marine rifle and it is forced to carry a shoulder strap and even so. It doesn't have a bayonet. the marines just use it as a blunt weapon. EDIT also the marines in DOW are battle hardened men that will do nothing but die for the emperor in combat. They also have units created for melee aswell as range.

 

i dont see why they aren't comparable, compared to the vehicles, space marines really are canon fodder. and it doesn't matter if they fight with a hammer or a bayonet or a knife, they all do damage.

the marines in SC are hardened criminals who had to get lobotomies and implants and other shit in order to be tamed. close enough, i'd say.

 

I have an idea! Why don't we just screw all this discussion about bayonets, accept it as a graphical representation of an upgrade, and discuss something more productive?

 

Like what? That's almost the only thing we've seen new about the marines. Oh yeah, now they fall from the sky! What else?

Hide in bunkers... get healed by medics... I don't know, perhaps they shouldn't get more than that. Nothing more occurs to me. Guess I shouldn't even be posting in a thread like this then... But I was curious ;D Anything else worthy of notice?

 

obviously, we are going t have marine heroes. i say we should give the marine heroes a hijack ability, to get into enemy ground vehicles. and that when the vehicle explodes, the marine is left standing there in the explosion.

 

I can never tell if you're serious.

But then again, you were serious about "Marine Mounting." Lol.

 

only because it reminded me of the halo scorp tank

 

I would think that the Heros would have some sort of AoE abilities, or maybe some kind of aura.

 

I'll just make this point and then I'll shut up about the bayonets. Some of you have seen me say that melee weapons always do more damage than equivalent tech lvl range weapons. It's a simple physics matter. But it's hard to get a grasp on because of the way human warfare has been progressing. But notice this:

The bayonet was first introduced with the musket right? So you have:
Range weapon = Musket
Melee weapon = Iron Bayonet
I don't think anybody challenges the usefulness of the bayonet when all soldiers had was a musket. It's important to note that the Bayonet is effectively a lower tech level than the Musket, and yet, it was STILL useful.

Nowadays the forumla looks like this:
Range weapon = M15
Melee weapon = Steel Knife/Bayonet
Technology has greatly improved the standard range weapon - while the melee weapon has recieved virutally no improvement at all! Is this because it is impossible to improve on the bayonet design? Hardly... it just isn't practical when fighting other people. Nobody can survive a hail of bullets from an M15, so there's no need for any other weapon tech. Let's move to Starcraft universe now...

Range weapon = Gauss Rifle
Melee weapon = Unknown Bayonet design
Now, ask yourself: Is the Starcraft Gauss Rifle as effective against a Marines enemies as a M15 is against modern humans? The answer is obviously no.

ok, as promised... I shutup now... without even bothering to drive the point home =] just some things to think about

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ok, and now something useful... =P

marines should be able to dig trenches

 

The reason why bayonets isn't greatly improved its because most of the fighting we see today, and most likely in the future, uses ranged weapons. Melee weapons, such as bayonets and combat knives, are used only in the occasion of CQB (close quarter combat). And that occasion rarely arises, although it does nonetheless.

And yeah, Marines should dig trenches. ;D Good thought.

 

It could work as a slight barrier to small units - ie: not stop them, just slow them down for a bit while they try to cross it and/or give marines in the trench a partial cover bonus... let marines dig em wherever they want - but the trenches fade away after a while if no units are in them

 

Could we please stop talking about bayonets? Theres a whole other thread dealing with this issue (the "marine shield & bayonet" thread) you should take the discussion there if you feel absolutely compelled to show everyone your fine debating skills. For now lets just agree that bayonetes make sense if because of nothing else than because Blizzard said marines have use for bayonetes. If you want to talk wehter bayonetes would actually be useful in real life some hundred years into the future than you should go to another forum couse it doesn't concern SC2.

So the only thing that we can discuss about marines and bayonetes is wether they "look cool" from the design point of view. And theres not much point in discussing this because its very subjective, we've already concluded that some people think it looks good and some don't (like me). So there really isn't anything left to say on this topic.

 

Well, you are argueing about bayonets too, you know. ;D

 

A fine sentiment Flesh, but sorry - I'd much rather demonstrate my fine debating skills.

Such as: Saying that we shouldn't offer input on Blizzards decisions renders these forums useless, seeing as there wouldn't be anything to discuss beyond news postings.

 

Uhm one question NATE. I thought you we're going to shut up? ;D No offense, dude.

 

The M15 isn't an actual rifle. I'm assuming you're talking about either the M16 or the M14A1. The M15 was an experimental rifle that was never implemented because it was heavier than the M14 but fired with the same effect.

Furthermore, I don't really care if they have bayonets so long as it doesn't change their attack speed or damage rate.

As for digging trenches and adding a % bonus, I think that's a little bit unfair. I've said before that I think the Marine is perfectly suited for its task. In fact, the unit is already a bit overpowered... it doesn't need any additions. Especially chance events.

 

I am shutting up about bayonets... I suppose you mean you would rather I never posted again? I apologize if my existence makes stomachs churn. them's the breaks I guess

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I meant M16, I have no clue why I repeatedly typed M15. And digging trenches might be cool. Let it give marines ground cover but take bonus damage from the air... it's basically just a mini-bunker... not really a new idea, and I'm confused why you said: "especially chance events" - what's chance got to do with that?