Let starcraft 2 be DRM-free

Indeed, this DRM bullsh*t is just another attempt by EA to milk more money out of their customers.

 

@ fordinski. That concept isn't new, and it doesn't only apply to Spore. In World of WarCraft you're basically just renting the account from Blizzard, and having to pay every couple of months to keep it. You've already bought it, and you keep on needing to pay rent, but no-one's complaining about how **** that is and how crap Blizzard is for doing that. This's basically the exact same thing, only there're no ongoing payments. About the spyware-type programs, you're the only one I've heard complaining about it. From what I've heard it's necessary stuff so you can actually play the game. Without it, it's not massively single-player, which's one of the great things about it, it's just normal single player.

Let me put it another way, if you were never told about the installation limit, would you have ever find out about it?

@ Wlck. Milk more money out of their customers? It's just an attempt to try get the money they deserve.

 

Fromt Blizzard's track record, I highly doubt they will implement this for Starcraft 2.

Firstly the phone call wouldn't be free, and secondly paying customers shouldn't even have to call and plea their case when pirates have no hassle at whatsoever. There have been cases where legitimate claims were rejected; can you understand how infuriating that must be for a paying customer? This form of DRM does nothing to curb piracy, and activity encourages it. Only the paying customers are having any trouble, because only legitimate copies have the protection applied, so you're essentially paying to be hassled. It's not like real-world security checks where everyone is subjected to scrutiny; you choose, via payment, to have this forced on you.

MMORPGs are different because you're subscribing to a service -- a service only available online from their servers. It's a service with an account like any of the multitude of services out there that require ongoing payments. Mass Effect also has this DRM protection applied, yet it has no multiplayer or online features at all. It's a completely offline single-player endeavour; you're not receiving a continuous service from an external party.

Many people have; three overall activations can be eaten through quite quickly. Bioshock has a better system in place, whereby each uninstallation would restore an activation, so instead of five overall activations, it's five concurrent activations.

It's an unjust and ultimately damaging attempt because it's doing nothing it's supposed to.

 

@tzaHexGor: PLEASE READ EVERYTHING

No.. It's nothing like the same thing. World of WarCraft is an MMO (One in which you don't have to pay a monthly fee, by the way, so that point is moot) and Spore is a mostly single-player game with multiplayer similiar to The Sims 2. So, basically, you are paying Blizzard for their server, their ping, their community, their future updates, their anti-hacks, et cetera. You are not paying them to play the game. You can host your own server and be fine... But, then that wouldn't be the same thing, now would it? But, you can just go to other private servers that have 6,000-8,000 people on them to solve this dilemma. There you go... You can play the game you bought anytime you want even though it's an MMO. Case closed.

I encourage you to get more educated and informed on the matter of some of the stuff that installed on your computer through games. I find your whole stance infuriating because I have had many problems with these and so have others. You completely ignore how it affects me when you talk about how it's okay! If I buy a game, and can't play .. Then.. Don't I have the right to be angry?

For example, the "copy protection" locks you out of being able to do certain things with your computer that you have the right too.. Edit registries, clean your registry (Without doing this your computer will get slower and slower over the years.), mounting ISOs of things you need to install(Not just games.), or if you had these applications installed without knowing you can be black-listed and unable to play your game.. Sometimes EVER!!!, and YOU CAN'T UNINSTALL IT without a third-party program. I, personally, have been affected by this in the way that I could not play a game I had bought myself.. The only solution I had was to use a crack/mini-image and use an external drive.. Tell me... How did that stop piracy if I have to use piracy to play it?

Also.. seriously.. please.. for the sake of this forum, please go read about the effects of this software.. It can screw up restore points that you needed to use (Effectively killing your computer until a reformat if you use a restore point that was effected.), it (StarForce) has been proven to break CD/DVD-ROMs by messing with the way it reads discs in a way they weren't meant to, which is why that isn't used anymore, but, once again, in order to get your CD/DVD-ROM reading correctly again you must know a lot about computers or use a third-party application, and several other bad effects that I can't think of at the moment.. Also, you are basically installing a virus that monitors your every move (Sending a lot of information back to "Headquarters".) except it's legal and your anti-virus doesn't do anything about it. Seriously, compare a virus to what these things do and how they are handled when you want to uninstall them. You want to install a virus? You gotta get an anti-virus.. You wanna uninstall the "copy protection" so that it won't monitor you anymore or damage your computer? You gotta get a third-party application. That's should anger you that a company you gave money to is treating you this way.. They are treating you like a pirate that never bought the game.. Meanwhile, the people who never bought the game would never come in contact with these "viruses" and other problems. It's like punishing a class for few weeks when the kids that did whatever don't even come to school those days.

I found your arguments ill-informed and just plain.... non-existent, to be honest. You are WAAAY too complacent with this. You, as a consumer, have the obligation to complain when you are treated this way or it will ONLY GET WORSE. You have the right to do whatever you want with your copy as long as it doesn't allow another person to play illegally. If I want to install my game on 200 computers that I own, I should be able to... If I want to uninstall a game because it's eating up hard drive space then I should have the right to do that without punishment. What if the first install had problems? You wasted one of your three. And, don't tell me about "call-in to get more installs".. I've had to do this many times with Windows, and it IS A HUGE WASTE OF TIME and is extremely irritating when they cannot speak English and treat me like a pirate because I update my graphics card or harddrive. Maybe it's because you are used to this kind of "copy protection" and that you have never been truly effected by this software that you have no problem with it, and, as such, you have no right to talk, quite frankly until you read more about this.

Please note, there are many other types of copy protection that do other thing, but I have not had to deal with them presonally so I won't talk about them.. But, using Google should get you information on these "copy protections"

 

I really hope they don't put in DRM. It only really prevents people from sharing disks, and the real pirating problem comes from downloaded versions of the game. Personally, I know I have installed some games as many as seven or eight times due to switching computers, reformatting hard drives, and other reasons.

 

K, guys? Just for the record, I'm not saying that DRM helps stop piracy. I am saying however, that it's an attempt to, and, in my opinion, any attempt should be encouraged. This may not be the best system, and I never said it was, so don't act like I'm supporting this, I'm merely supporting companies' attempts to stop piracy, because they have every right to try and prevent piracy. They aren't trying to milk their customers for all their worth, they're trying to get the money they deserve. Would you say that a shop with security alarms installed in an attempt to prevent shoplifting is trying to milk their customers? Of course not. They're just trying to get the money they deserve, the money they've earned.

@ Jewels. If you're going on about the cost of the phone call, you're really clutching at straws. I'm aware that it would be an increased rate, but it's really not going to add up to much, not to mention that you don't have to phone them anyway. About these 'rejected legitimate claims', I'd like to hear more about them. Firstly, they could be legitimate, but have no proof of purchase, and secondly, if someone's burnt three installations within the first week, I don't blame EA for being suspicious.

I don't see what Mass Effect has to do with this, so you're going to have to elaborate on that point if you'd like a reply. About World of WarCraft, and this applies to Tychus too, you're not just paying for a service, you're not just paying for servers, you're not just paying for their community or their updates. You're renting your own account. Blizzard owns your account and Blizzard owns your characters. It's Blizzards property.

Three overall activations may be eaten through quite quickly, but in order to loose all of them, you've got to have been doing something stupid. I only briefly looked up on this, but from what I read, BioShock uses the same copy protection as Spore.

Lastly, that last bit you said was of little relevance to my reply to Wlck's comment.

@ Tychus. I will get back to you about your post, but don't have time to right now. Just wanted to let you know I'm not ignoring all that. I read over your first bit briefly, and I'll just say that your bit about World of WarCraft is wrong. Your account and characters all belong to Blizzard. It's all Blizzard's property. About private servers or hosting your own, it's illegal and is in violation of the Terms of Agreements.

 

Yes, I agree that companies should do something about piracy. But, when they put in a security measure that ONLY effect those who bought the game and cause ONLY THEM problems then something is wrong, and they deserve the anger from the community. If they are going to authorize and put these measures into actions they have no respect for their buyers. They only want the purchase, and, after that, you get a big "Screw you!"

Not to mention you are guilty until proven innocent as far as being a pirate. What kind of community relation is this when the pirates don't even have to deal with it? So, basically, they are punishment an ENTIRE GROUP OF PEOPLE for what a few people have done when THOSE PEOPLE AREN'T EVEN IN THE AFFECTED GROUP.

No, but I would call buying a can of Coke from a convenience store in which I cannot open wrong, and, therefore, is usless to me... I'd have to go get a 2 Liter "easier-to-open" bottle from another store.. Which just defeats the purpose of them even selling the Coke.............. other than to milk their customers.

What about the money I've earned? When they take it and I don't get what I paid for.. What about me? That's the money I deserve, and earned.. Why am I not entitled to it when the company rips me off? You continue to ignore my situation when you condone such corporate behavior.. Why? Because it hasn't happened to you.. yet ... But, what about when it does? What will you say then?

I've had to reinstall 3 times for certain games in 2 days before. World Of WarCraft was one of them. I don't know why you don't understand that burning through those installs could happen in a matter of hours LEGITIMATELY. I guess you truly never have had an negative relation with copy-protection.. Or else you would be as against it as I am, and.. like I said.. You have no right to talk about how it is okay until you've had it happened to you. Just like you wouldn't open your mouth about other serious real-life issues (Rape, death, drug addiction, abuse, et cetera.) unless you knew what you were talking about had experience with the issue.

Of course.. I just forgot to mention that. I don't see how that changes anything. Sure, you're "renting" an account.. But, you don't have to! That's my point.. Plus, that's an MMO in which you have to pay for the server which is the largest reason for the fee. You aren't giving Blizzard money just because they asked for it or else other games would be doing this. You are paying for the server, future updates, and anti-hack measures.. Those are the main reasons. Saying you're also renting your own account as a main reason is like saying you bought something you don't want on the internet just so you could be in that websites account. You are not paying for the account.. You are paying for the server, and the other things I and others have mentioned.

No.. If you uninstall BioShock you get one of your installs back. If EA didn't want you to buy more than one copy, why don't your insalls come back once you've uninstalled?

Well.. No one cares.. But, I must say, sir.. If my point was the Moon, you missed and hit the stars.

---

I think I'll just take it upon myself to list some problems with StarForce and SecuROM.

Problems with SecuROM v7 (The current one that is being used in Spore, Red Alert 3, and has been used in The Sims 2 and hundreds of other games.)

Taken from offical websites....
"problems relating to SecuROM include prevention of proper launching of games, disabling of CD/DVD/Blu-ray disc burners, and disruption of antivirus programs. Some users have reported severe damage caused by SecuROM, resulting in system failures that required complete system reformats to fix. EA attempted to address some of these concerns on the official website. Despite user complaints, EA plans to continue employing SecuROM and its future versions in their future releases."

"In May 2008 EA announced that Mass Effect for the PC would be using SecuROM 7.x requiring a reactivation of the software every 10 days. Due to a massive outpouring of complaints EA removed the 10-day activation while keeping SecuROM tied to the installation. SecuROM's product activation facility was still used to impose a limit of three times that a customer is allowed to activate the copy of Mass Effect they purchased. The game becomes unplayable after the activations are used up, until EA's customer support is contacted to reset the activation limit. Unlike Bioshock, uninstalling the game does not refund a previously used activation."

Also, if you install a game with SecuROM is gives itself Ring 1 system access. That's a higher priveledge than the user has.. That's up there with systems drivers. Now.. Imagine that *.exe gets infected with a virus (Which very well could happen.) .. Your computer is absolutely SCREWED! Along with any other information the virus wants to take from your computer.

Furthermore, SecuROM can employ data density verificiation which checks the density of the data on the disc. This is hard to immitate for burners and can be an accurate way to see if the disc is burned or a copy... However, your store bought copy can deteriorate to the point that this protection deems it a copy in a matter of a few years (3-5).. I guess you won't be needing those installs after all.

Another interesting thing from the Wikipedia, is "As the protection places itself between the application's code and the OS, it can alter the behaviour of selected system functions." This is probably a major cause of the crashes that some users have. Imagine.. I installed a game, but knew nothing about computers and never uninstalled this trash (These "viruses", which is a more accurate term, is not removed with the uninstallation of the game.. What purpose would this filth have for being on my computer if I am not using a game that requires it to be used.. Without cracks, of course.) I would have this garbage on my computer forever.. I would have no idea why my computer was running slower and slower (Locks you out of cleaning your registry.) or why my computer kept crashing (The protection is changing the way Windows sends status commands back to the kernal.)



Look at what EA was GOING TO DO!!! Why didn't they do it? Public outcry.. If there were more people like you just think of the absurd, insane, and just plain unfair hoops we'd have to jump through JUST TO PLAY A GAME WE BOUGHT MEANWHILE PIRATES HAVE ZEEERROOO PROBLEMS.

Now, here's another copy-protection software that was pretty popular until the public outcry became public boycotts and the companies were forced to remove their software or refrain from using it in the future..

Problems with StarForce...

"including disk drive performance degradation, weakening of operating system security and stability" So, this software kills your disc drive and opens your computer up to spyware/virus and any other kinds of programs you don't want.. Why? Because the company thought it would protect their games when, in effect, it ONLY AFFECTED THE USERS WHO BOUGHT THE GAME. Pirates... again.. would never have any of these problems.

I hope you see point I am trying to make.

 

I'm all with supporting the prevention of piracy, but I know DRM is not something to support because it's actually encouraging piracy. You should not encourage attempts that are ineffective and ultimately damaging.

The problem with this analogy is that all potential customers would be checked under such a security system. To put this perspective back in terms of DRM, it would mean only the paying customers having to be checked, and only the paying customers having to deal with any trouble the alarm system would bring. Shoplifters could simply take all they wanted, and walk out without having to be checked because they didn't buy anything. How would that system prevent shoplifting? If only the paying customers are receiving any trouble from the alarms because they decided to actually buy something, it would be easier for them to simply take the products for free and walk out without being checked.

You're missing the point; why should paying customers have to call in the first place? Why should they have to spend extra just to get a game for which they paid in working condition again? It doesn't matter if the overall cost won't "add up to much"; they're still having to pay extra regardless.

I also think you're missing the critical issue about piracy: pirates don't have to go through the same process. Only legitimate paying customers have to put up with any of the hassle, and pirates are getting away with it completely. Pirates download a copy of the game that doesn't contain any DRM checks whatsoever, so they don't need to call, and they have unlimited freedom in what they do with their illegal copy. Again, it's only the paying customers who are having any trouble, and they're being treated guilty until proven innocent, when all the guilty ones wouldn't have to call in the first place because their copies are free of any DRM.

Mass Effect has a three overall activation limit, and further installations require a call to EA. Whilst being a offline single player game, an Internet connection is still required for authentication. TychusFindlay explained it further.

And you're helping elucidate on the differences between subscribing to a service, and buying a product. What exactly is the point you're trying to convey? Of course people will starting complaining when a product they bought (not rented or a service to which they subscribed) starts throwing up negative repercussions.

In your perspective maybe, but problems occur with anything including malware infection, reformatting, hardware changes, damage caused by SecuROM itself, system crashes affecting the installation etc. The irony would be DRM itself, causing problems for the user, through which the solutions to those problems cause an activation to be lost (see the information from their official website, posted by TychusFindlay). My point is that regardless of how the activations are used up, many consumers (all legitimate because they had to pay for the hassle to be forced on them) have been negatively affected. Again, pirates would have none of the troubles related to the activation limits.

The part about milking money was what was irrelevant. You mentioned DRM being an attempt to get the money they deserve, and I replied by saying it was unjust (because only paying customers are having any trouble) and ultimately damaging (because it encourages piracy); encouraging piracy is not an attempt at getting the money they deserve, but companies still fail to see this.

Several DRM schemes have now been terminated due to companies realising its lack of efficacy, and as a corollary all that was bought during the DRM period ceased to work because the authentication servers were terminated. Support requests dropped largely due to many of them being related to DRM. Again, the pirates throughout all of these events had unlimited freedom with their free illegal copies.

 

Thank you Jewels! It's good to see someone understands the points I am trying to make

 

Very true - I was not thinking about MMORPG's when it came to this.

 

Again, though, MMO /=/ Single-player game

 

I see where this is going, and it's gotten completely out of hand. You're all still accusing me of supporting the system, which I'm simply not supporting. Just because I'm opposing your views, it doesn't mean that I'm all for DRM, etc. I'm not saying this helps stop piracy, ok? So you can stop going on about how only legitimate users are checked, etc, and how I'm such a horrible, horrible person for saying that it does.

What I am saying is that they have the right to put anything on their game that they want. If they want to put something like this on to try and prevent piracy, then that's their problem. If you don't want all that crap on your computer for whatever reason, then don't get it. You don't have the obligation to complain. You're buying it and you're putting it on your computer. Their making it, they have the right to put anything they think will help on it they want. So, if you want the game, get it, if you don't, don't. Don't get it, install it and play it and then complain on how much all the DRM on it sucks. It's obviously worth getting, despite the DRM, otherwise you wouldn't have gotten it. Again, don't go on about how it doesn't help, because I'm aware of that. The point is that they can do whatever they want with whatever they're developing.

About World of WarCraft, as much as I may be unfamiliar with all the DRM that I'm supposedly supporting, you're completely unfamiliar with this. You are not just paying for servers, updates, etc, so quit saying you are. You have absolutely no ownership of your account. You are paying them to play the game. Blizzard owns it all. It's all Blizzard's property. Read the Terms of Use.

What do you actually mean by 'you don't have to'? From what you said earlier it seemed like you were saying private servers were the solution, but when I replied to that saying they weren't, you said I missed your point, so what do you actually mean you don't have to?

About just some other points...

I was referring to them both using SecuROM or whatever, when you were going on about how bad StarForce was.

Again, I'm not saying that this system works, I'm saying that, just as shops are able to put up security measure, regardless of whether they work or not, EA should be able to as well. No-one accuses shopkeepers of trying to milk money from their customers, so why are gaming companies being accused? It's not an analogy to the DRM, it's an analogy of them being able to implement whatever they want to try and prevent shoplifting or piracy. Adding something to try and prevent piracy does not equate to them milking their customers for all they're worth.

 

You did specifically state that any attempt should be encouraged; any misinterpretation or ambiguity with regards to your intended meaning lies with you. I don't think anyone mentioned you being a horrible person.

Correct to a certain extent, except consumers do have the right to complain, and thankfully as a result of public uproar certain implementations of horrendous DRM have been prevented (Mass Effect's continuous re-authentications), and other DRM schemes have been terminated completely.

Also, they can't simply do whatever they want, because it is unacceptable to force harmful software to users' systems, and every measure should be taken to ensure such practices do not continue. Developers and publishers make mistakes though, and at least most of them try and resolve unintended issues that arise.

I still fail to see the point you're trying to convey by stressing that the accounts belong to Blizzard. To me you're increasingly elucidating the differences between renting/subscribing to a service, and buying a product. The focus was on why people were complaining about bought products acting seemingly as if they were merely rented products, when the differences between the two are as clear as you continuously stress them to be.

Again the part about milking money is irrelevant; I was referencing your comment about companies trying to get the money they deserve. Now it's clear that your focus is merely on the rights of companies to implement measures to prevent piracy, but no one is arguing against the rights of companies; this discussion is focused on DRM, and how it's ineffective and damaging towards both consumers and the piracy it wishes to prevent. Your initial posts seemed to indicate a defence for DRM (not the rights of companies), which is why I responded.

 

True, I said that any attempt should be encouraged, but I more meant that EA shouldn't be shouted at for trying to prevent piracy. This incident should be recognised as an attempt, and any attempt should be encouraged. That doesn't mean that DRM should be encouraged, but it does mean that the attempts to do so should be. It's obvious that no-one's going to get the perfect system right away, so there will always be failed, even harmful, attempts along the way.

About DRM being prevented and others terminated completely, do you mind clarifying that? Does that mean that as a whole it's been prevented? Or just some others companies have changed their mind and chosen not to?

Yeah, I didn't mean that they have total control over what's in their games, but they can do whatever's within their power. Obviously it's just plain illegal for them to put viruses, etc, in their games, but they can't be restricted from adding anti-piracy programs, etc, to their games either, regardless of whether they work or not.

The World of WarCraft argument started in response to fordinski saying...

...So it's basically been a separate point this entire time. However if I've basically been proving your point by arguing that, why have you and Tychus been disagreeing? You weren't correct about it and apparently it's contradictory to what you were both saying.

That last part wasn't linked to the milking comment, it was in relation to my analogy. I merely used that phrase to link it back to what Wlck was originally saying, not your response, and because the majority of this argument/discussion started from that post.

 

wow you guys are getting all worked up over this? blizzard hasn't even hinted at drm, just relax guys...

 

In World Of WarCraft you are renting a server/service ...

In games like Spore, you are renting the game ...

Do you see the difference?

No, ItzaHexGor, attempts such as this shouldn't even be legal, much less encouraged or allowed. Did you even read what I wrote? Maybe, when your CD/DVD/BluRay-ROM dies, your computer get fried, your credit card numbers get stolen, or you can't even boot up the game you just spent money on because of a DRM you'll finally understand what I'm saying. Until then you shouldn't even open your mouth. I don't mean to be rude, but I don't know of any other way to say it and get my point across....

There is only one copy-protection that has been known to work. It is the easiest, and least problematic with PAYING customers.. That's GB size Maybe, EA should make their games 100GB

 

I can see your perspective about encouraging companies to prevent piracy, but when ineffective and damaging attempts arise, such attempts must be met the clamour in order to ensure they do not continue. EA are not being shouted at for trying to prevent piracy in general; the problem has always been specific to DRM's implementation.

Before Mass Effect for the PC was released, an announcement was made that it would require continuous online authentication every 10 days for the game to work, in addition to the overall activation limit. Due to public backlash from the news, the decision was made to eliminate the continuous online authentication.

My mentioning of several DRM schemes being terminated was with regards to music, with certain companies dropping their DRM completely. It certainly did take a while for them to realise its completely lack of efficacy, and there are companies still implementing the measure, but it's a step in the right direction.

I haven't been disagreeing, and neither was I incorrect. You responded to fordinski's comment by saying that people do not complain about World of Warcraft, and my focus this entire time has been on the fact that obviously people will complain when a product they bought acts as if it is merely rented, when the differences between the two are as clear as you continuously stressed them to be.

Wlck742 made a comment about companies trying to milk money from their customers, and you replied by saying that the companies were simply trying to get the money they deserve. My response to you was with regards to your particular comment, and your analogy:

Your point was about such measures not being about milking customers, which is true, and about companies having the right to try and get the money they deserve (although you failed to make this clear until much later). Your analogy to DRM was merely serving as an example to demonstrate that companies have the right to implement preventative measures.

You see, if you had mentioned this at the beginning, it would have been much clearer as to what your intent actually was. Your initial posts seemed to indicate a defence for DRM specifically, of which I disapprove, hence my responses in this topic.

 

@ Tychus. You don't even know the difference. Read World of WarCraft's Terms of Use. You're renting it directly from Blizzard. You're not renting the server or any other service like future updates or any of that crap, you're renting the game from Blizzard.

Again you're acting as though I'm supporting DRM, I'm not, but if a company wants to put it on their game to try and prevent piracy, and I then buy it and install it on my compy, I'm not going to complain that it's on my system. I've bought it, I've installed it. Should I blame EA for any potential mess ups? No, 'cause I've chosen to play it regardless of the DRM.

Besides, you're seriously overreacting. You're carrying on as though every single person who's bought Spore has now had their computer and life screwed over. I'm not sure how many sales Spore's made, but it's definitely in the millions, so are you saying that all those people's computer's are now messed up? Not to mention that it's completely illegal to have any program that will steal credit card numbers, etc, and also seeing as this was the first time you mentioned credit cards, and that they'd have previously been a major point in your anti-DRM argument, which leads me to believe that that's a complete fabrication.

@ Jewels. Sorry, I guess it was more Tychus who was consistently incorrect. fordinski was annoyed about buying a rented/leased version of the game, so while everyone was bagging out EA and praising Blizzard, I decided to raise the issue that with World of WarCraft, that's exactly what you're doing. Would of WarCraft is still bought, and for full price as any other game as well, but nothing can be done unless you're paying Blizzard to rent an account. My point is that World of WarCraft is exactly what fordinski says pisses him off, everyone is buying a rented/leased copy of a game.

 

False! Most people don't even know about the DRM or the effects it has on your computer.. For example.. You .. I didn't either, for the most part, until I had a problem booting-up my game, and decided to see why.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if you "didn't mind" if a company just placed a "Gimme Free Money!" on their box that you had to press everytime you wanted to open the box (It is a company's right afterall, right? They can use whatever DRM they want to screw over their PAYING customers.. Err.. I mean protect their hard-earned money.. DRM is so effective, IT STOPS PIRACY!), and if you didn't put the contents back in it would threaten the lives of your family (I'm half kidding.. But, you get the point. If you are doing what the program thinks is suspicious activies you flagged, and you can possibly become BLACKLISTED from the publisher's future games.. This was in The Sims 2 until they removed it.. Due to public outcry.. What would you do without us who complain?).. Because OBVIOUSLY if the contents aren't in the box you're definately out bootlegging/pirating it.

Who cares about Spore? I'm talking about DRM in general.. There have been many games that installed applications/DRMs on your computer WITHOUT TELLING YOU/ASKING YOU (Hmm.. Gee.. I wonder why they don't tell you? Or, atleast, offer you an option to remove this trash.) and the users had some SERIOUS problems with their computers.. And, for God's sake, if you don't believe me use Google! I even read some articles about this in PCGamer AANNNDDDD Games For Windows back when Ubisoft was using StarForce and it was causing SERIOUS problems. Maybe you can find a scan of this article on the internet.. I bet it wouldn't be hard.. Or maybe they posted this article on thier main site.

Not all of them, but A LOT OF THEM.. No, they're computer isn't messed up, but they are DEFINATELY having problems with the DRM. The problems I've mentioned above ALL take TIME. It doesn't happen over night. Why don't you check Amazon's reviews for Spore. I've seen news about this all over internet news sites about the thousands and thousands of 1-star reviews that Spore has gotten because of people's DRM issues... But, it's the companies right, correct? I'm sure all of those people knew of the problems they would have when they bought the game. The people who bought Spore are hardcore games, and know everything about the PC Gaming world.. Spore isn't mainstream at all.. Not like The Sims.

Again.. False! But, all of this is semantics. We are talking about the same thing in THIS AREA, but wording it different. Let's move on!

Again.. When it happens to you you'll have the right to talk on this matter.. Until then you don't know what you're talking about. How would you feel if you just spent 50$ on a game you can't play simply because a company wanted to assume you were a pirate and treat you like one, meanwhile, a pirate has ABSOLUTELY no problems, and if they just went straight to using a cracked .exe. They probably didn't even know about it.. It's just you.. Punished for actually giving these crooks (Some of them.. Mostly EA) money instead of pirating it. How would YOU feel if your drive gets broken JUST BECAUSE OF DRM IN A GAME THAT DID NOTHING? How would you feel if your computer gets infested with viruses/spyware/registry spiders/trackers JUST BECAUSE OF A DRM THAT DID NOTHING? Think of what these viruses/spyware/registy spiders/trackers can do with the information on your computer... You are punished for buying, and the pirates are rewarded.. I'm sure that's the original intention of the publishers to put this DRM in...

Face it. Most people who install these games have no idea of what these DRMs do. I'm sure you've installed games with some of the said DRMs, but didn't know it. I don't blame you. They don't even tell you. But, either way.. IT IS NOT UNINSTALLED WHEN YOU UNINSTALL THE GAME!! What purpose does it have then? Other than damaging your drive, changing the way your Windows communicates with the kernal, opening up your computer to viruses/hackers, and all of the other things I've mentioned.. What is it doing?!?!?! Please.. Tell me.. I'd like to know! Why is the job of third-parties to make programs which remove this.. Why do the publishers/DRM coders not want you to uninstall it so bad? If it's only purpose is to allow you to boot-up a game then when the game is gone shouldn't it go too?

You are, in fact, defending these measures. It's been in every word you've said. Basically, all you've been doing is saying "I don't support DRM, but I think it's a great idea, and companies should do it!"

Wow...

Anyways, most people don't know of the harm of it, and ignorantly install it on their computers. Some of the things that these DRMs do should be illegal! In fact, if you had read what I wanted you to you would have seen that Microsoft HAS FILED COMPLAINTS/LAWSUITS AGAINST SOME OF THE DRMS.. Namely StarForce.. For suspected rootkits and other things that damage the OS. This was found to be true, hence why publisher after publisher removed StarForce from their games and made patches to remove it. Why would a publisher make a patch to remove DRM that they put in there? Do you honestly think there wasn't a reason? Read some computer news sites or the Wikipedia for proof of the above. It's also in the magazine I mentioned above.

LOL.. If that's all you got from my post then I wasted my time... You did not read with understanding. I just suggest you reread.

Wow.. Just wow... Read it again. I said THE DRM OPENS UP VULNERABILITIES IN YOUR COMPUTER THAT A VIRUS/HACKER CAN EXPLOIT .. That's on official sites so.. no.. it's not a fabrication.. Google is your friend.. Check EVERYTHING I've said and see if it's true. I CHALLENGE you to do that. Some of these DRMs make it a lot easier for viruses/hackers to get into your computer.. These DRMs are basically doors or cracks that are put into your computer's defenses. Why? Just so a company can try to prevent some pirating.. But.. Oh wait! The pirates never have this problem! They can get around this protection BEFORE THE GAME IS EVEN RELEASED!!!

I'll be patient with you on this because I posted so much before.. But, really, other than that, this mistake is inexcusible since you're trying to prove a point. You should read and make sure you understand what the other person is saying before you spout this nonsense.

If you don't understand the difference that I am trying to tell you then, really, I have no reason to even talk to you... It's a waste of time. But, I still I'll ask you.. Why are you paying Blizzard? Did Blizzard just say, "Hey! Give us your money! We aren't providing you with a server/service or anything.. We just want your money!"

No.. There's a reason that World Of WarCraft players are charged a monthly fee, and Diablo 3 players will not be. I hope you see the difference because if you don't then I'm done talking to you. it's a waste of time, and you are not putting as much effort as I am into this. I am trying to get you to understand (Partially, for your benefit!) what these DRMs can do. Not to mention, if we don't ALL get educated on this matter and we don't complain, what's to stop companies from putting in worse/stricter/stupider/more hurtful DRMs into future games? America is a capitalist society and it is a our right/duty to do these things. I know you aren't American but these obligations and rights (hopefully) apply to you.

 

Sorry for double post but I reached the limit on the above post... Continued....

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By the way, like I said, there are many DRMs that I haven't even mentioned and there are MANY adverse effects that I saw on some sites that I didn't even bother to copy and paste. I am challenging YOU to inform yourself on this matter. I shouldn't have to do that for you. It's simple. Just do a few Google searches and see for yourself everything I've said.

StarDock's Gamer's Bill Of Rights...

http://www.stardock.com/about/newsitem.asp?id=1095

Also, read about what they say about the things these DRMs do. They are an IMPORTANT video game developer (Check their catalog).. They would not lie.