JBL's Map Making Help Service

i'm a "pro" mapmaker as well

pretty skilled as far as triggers go

and i've been known to make some awesome melee maps

but i do it for myself haha

 

i could send you a couple if you'd like

they're not popular (it's impossible to get a melee map to be popular when all anyone plays is bgh or fastest) so you wouldn't recognize them by their names

 

You made Reflector 2 .
I know that map, triggers are more advanced than anything I could do for sure. Was quite fun as well.
I believe www.staredit.net has actually ceased as a site. Read it in a post on another forum.

I would personally think that map making on SC2 will be different. There are a lot of exploits or glitches or whatever that programs like Starfore and scxe use to make better maps.
Maybe a lot of the things will be the same, same trigger system for instance but I still think there will a lot more options and oddities to play around with.

 

wow it's nice to know that you've heard of my map.. (I would say "one of my maps" but.. well reflector 2 is my lil baby I'm simply too proud of it)

I don't think Reflector 2 could be made for starcraft 2.. because I'm almost sure the map making for SC2 will be like WC3... bye bye conceptual maps..

Reflector 2 could have been made in the original editor.. beside the squarish terrain... everything else is doable in the original blizzard made map editor.. but it would take more hours of work.. but it's pretty doable..

and trust me.. there is going to be a starforge like software for SC2 too.. there are some for WC3..

What is your high score (in one turn) at reflector 2? Mine is 38 or 39.. I cant remember..

and you are saying Staredit.net DIED??? HOW THE HELL??? wow wow wow How could staredit.net die? wow.. that's sad... the death of the best online gaming community I've ever known...

 

DoS attack ftl? X_X

 

anyways, as far as triggers go

i made Kirby Bound for the Kirby- clan
annd, i made a halo map identical to level 3 of halo 1

it was kinda like a team based thing where everyone had to work together and use their abilities to survive, it was pretty neat

and then my all time favorite map, Tadpole Wars, it was a mix between golems and penguin wars, but larger and more strategies going on and more possibilites, i made it from scratch and damn it took a long time to make. i had all the triggers done but i only got the "Mega Frogs" half finished... annd then i quit starcraft for whatever reason and uninstalled and lost all of my maps, i had about 20 balanced melee maps and like 5 good but unifinished trigger maps =(

if anyone happens to have any of these maps please send them to me cause i would love to finish them >_<

 

ouch.. unfinished and unreleased maps are very hard to find...

try to find ur SC budies at that time.. they might have the maps you are looking for..

 

Hey JBL! Thanks for your advice about the sound, I'm asking about a bit of my map this time.
What I want to do is have an area where the players must move their units across certain beacons. If they step on the wrong beacons (Yellow ones in this case) then gun turrets pop out of the floor and begin to attack. Unfortunately, I've hit a few problems. Any advice on how to make this work?
~Pix~

 

I might need a bit more information..

I suppose the area is fully covered with beacons.. 2 colors.. which means 2 players... since you are talking about yellow.. I suppose it's player 8 and lets say the other beacons are player 7 owned.. which means they are white.. anyway this isnt important..

there are 2 ways of doing it.. the "first concept that comes to mind" way and the "look at me.. I'm a mapmaker" way

here's the "first concept that comes to mind"

I would put large locations all over the yellow beacons.. make as few locations as possible so it takes less triggers.. then.. when someone brings a unit on one of these locations.. trigger the turrets (i'll say more about the turrets later)

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

now.. the "look at me, I'm a mapmaker" way

Make a small location for every player. location size should be 1x1 for large units like tank or w/e but make it 0.5 x 0.5 (to make smaller locations, use starforge)

now make a trigger that does this:

condition: player bring exactly zero of his "hero" unit to that small location
action: move the location over that unit, preserve trigger, comment, etc.. bla bla

you need one of these for every player

(note: you could even play a .wav in this trigger.. a footstep wav would be great.. so everytime the player moves his unit.. it plays a footstep effect.. this is what makes a map truely sexy)

now that theres this location over ur unit.. you make this trigger:

condition: player 8 brings at least 1 beacon to that location (u need a trigger for every player..)

action: set deaths for academy (or w/e unit) for player 8 to 1

w/e method you use.. (I strongly suggest the later one.. ) the action should be to set a death counter to 1.. so the turrets are turned on in a separate trigger

now you need a way of turning off the turrets when nobody steps on any of the beacons, it's pretty much the same trigger.. but inverted..

condition player 8 brings exactly 0 beacon to these locations (NOTE: you will only need one of these.. but it must include one condition for every players with a location over its unit.. so it means.. when NOBODY steps on a beacon, it turns the turret off)

action: set death to bla bla bla zero (did you get this)

now.. what does the death counters do??..

condition: death of blabla = 1
action: enable doodad state for the turret unit at location X.. preserve trigger (of course)

condition: death of blabla = 0
action: disable doodad state for the turret unit at location X.. and preserve trigger..

note: you will need ONE location for every turret you have and you'll need to enable the turret at this location.. you need 1 action line per turret.... enabling doodads is the worstly made trigger action ever..

of course there's a way to enable every turrets with only 1 location.. but it would take gg skillz, moving locations, and burrowed zerglings.. and.. more time to trigger. unless you have 100 turrets.. if you do have a shitload of turrets to turn on.. tell me.. I'll describe what I'm talking about right now..

so.. you need a location per turret..(and make sure it's really over the turret.. lol) and you need to enable every turret with an action like this:

enable doodad state for the turret at location X
enable doodad state for the turret at location Y
enable doodad state for the turret at location Z
enable doodad state for the turret at location ...

Any questions?

 

hey pix
does each player only have one unit?
do color of beacons continuously change?
does every player play on the same track of beacons?
do you want only the unit that steps on the yellow beacons to get hit?
do the turrets have to be placed on the beacon or could they just be further back behind beacons?
if you could answer those questions im sure JBL could give a more accurate advice.

btw hey JBL what's the purpose of seperating the turret enabling triggers? reduce chance of bugs?

 

Woaa you are bringing many interesting points in your small post.. let me comment these!

does each player only have one unit?

I do think so.. but.. of course.. the method I stated wouldn't work if the players have 1 or more unit.. that's why I ask map makers to answer the questions in my first post.. and pix already did.. and as I remember.. it's an infiltration like map.. it's close enough to a RPG

do color of beacons continuously change?

If it does.. the first method I stated (the one with big locations) wouldn't work at all and you would NEED to use the 2nd method I stated.. but anyway.. I don't think they change.

does every player play on the same track of beacons?

This isn't very important.. but I think it's a teamwork map.. so.. I'm pretty sure they are on the track.

do you want only the unit that steps on the yellow beacons to get hit?

I don't think so.. but if it's so.. you will need an alliance system instead of the enable doodad state system.

do the turrets have to be placed on the beacon or could they just be further back behind beacons?

Again, I'm not too sure but I don't think the turrets are placed on the beacons. anyway it wouldn't change anything to the triggers..

if you could answer those questions im sure JBL could give a more accurate advice.

Yes, the alliance one and the changing color beacon one. would modify the triggers a lot.. I would like to have more info on these points.

btw hey JBL what's the purpose of seperating the turret enabling triggers? reduce chance of bugs?

Yeah.. it does reduce the chances of bugs.. it's easy to end up with bugs while playing with enable/disable states.. these actions should always be used separately when toogled on actual doodads (its ok if you just disable the beacon to make it look invisible).. but the main reason is.. if later he wants to toogle the turrets with another trigger.. it's much easier.. you gotta think of these details when you make maps...

 

ummm....thanks for the last bit

are you bored?

 

does each player only have one unit?
yeah it's one unit per player.
do color of beacons continuously change?
no, they are constant.
does every player play on the same track of beacons?
yup, they do.
do you want only the unit that steps on the yellow beacons to get hit?
no, if one unit steps on the beacons all players get attacked if they are on the beacon paths or nearby
do the turrets have to be placed on the beacon or could they just be further back behind beacons?
they can be further back
if you could answer those questions im sure JBL could give a more accurate advice.

JBL, I had a look at your advice and while I think it's all great and sound, I'm a little lost. Could you go through the first method step by step for me? Oh, and the players are Blue Zerg, Orange Zerg and Brown Zerg. The beacons are owned by White Terran (The safe beacons) and Yellow Terran (The dangerous beacons which activate the defences).

Thanks,
~Pix~

 

I won't explain the first method because it sucks.. and you don't wanna do it..

you really the 2nd method.. I'll try to add more details into the triggers..

here we go.. 1st Trigger. (To move a location over your hero unit)

2nd Trigger (switch to turn the turrets "ON")

3rd Trigger (switch to turn the turrets "OFF")

4th Trigger (time to use the death counter as a condition to turn the turrets "ON")

5th Trigger (turning the turrets "OFF")

That's all.. but you should include hyper triggers in your map.. refer to my hyper trigger post..

and.. that way.. whenever you want to activate your turrets you just have to set the deaths of academies for P8 to one.

I think it should be easier to do now..

 

How do AIs work?
*feels stupid*

 

you use that "run ai script at location" trigger

 

yup.. but there's the ai script that has no locations needed to run..

you just put the action in w/e trigger... you probably want a trigger with always as a condition..

for the "run ai script at location" if you use it for a melee style thing.. like you want your computer player to act like it was a melee or w/e.. you want a large location.. so the computer isn't stuck in a small area..

there are also many uses for ai script.. you can order units to enter a transport or bunker via triggers.. then.. you want the units and the ship/bunker to be in the same location.. and you probably want 1 location for each bunker/ship...

if the ship moves.. its probably better to move the location over the ship all the time..

here is something very funny..

cond: always
action: move location X over dropship, run ai script "enter transport" at location X, preserve trigger

now make the dropship move over some units.. and they will all enter the dropship..

now what you can do is.. use location Y and move it over the dropship all the time.. and in the location properties you make it air only... so when the unit enters the dropship.. they will be in location Y but if they are on ground.. they wont.. and then you can do something like.. move all marines at location Y to location Z (this location should be hidden somewhere on the map)

so you have a dropship that gets every marines that goes under it.. no matter how many there are.. they will all enter..

but to unload.. you'll need a trigger to move the units from location Z to somewhere else... then to add to the realism you can make the units at location Z appear 1 by one.. and you can add the unload sound..

funny isnt it??

 

one of my friends made a lightning sfx......
it was just a testmap, but basically wat happened was:
in the blackness of unrevealed map, with bits of fog of war here and there (dunno how it was arranged, infact not too sure if it even had fog of war tbh i forgot), parts of the map just suddenly lit up in white flashes....and it kept happening randomly.....like lightning.....i was like HOLY W T H
i dont think i have his map anymore....do you know how to make it!?

 

wow this is interesting.. i've never seen this before.. but.. OF COURSE I DO KNOW HOW!! hehe

first of all.. to deal with fog of war vs 100% black stuff.. it's very simple.. it's just like terrain.. except... ur palette will spread some fog of war.. but this isnt even needed..

i'm almost sure it was fog of war.. because after seeing an area.. you can go back to pure 100% black stuff..

so there are 2 ways i thought of doing it.. one of them is soo cheezy i won't waste much time on it.. ill start with it..

lol you'll laugh it's so cheezy.. you need 2 areas.. exactly the same.. and you center view over these really fast.. in one of them you can see.. in the other one.. it's fog of war..

ok forget this.. it's so lol.. now the real way of doing it..

it's all about vision.. if there are buildings owned by a comp plyaer.. u just share vision with that comp..

if theres no building at all.. you'll want a burrowed unit under some doodad.. so you can't see it.. (im thinking of a forest right now.. you can easily hide some burrowed lings or just spider mines..

so.. you need a computer just to do the lightning effects.. it could be used to do something else too (duhh) (btw this is great for intro in rpg.. or for movies)

you want a trigger like this:

turn on vision
wait a bit
turn off vision..
wait a bit
turn on vision...

u get it?? the way i would do it is using death counters and switches.. i would make 2 very simple triggers... using a switch.. if the switch is on.. the vision is on.. if the switch is off the vision is off.. and now you just toggle this switch... kinda fast.. like.. off (wait for a while) on (wait like 10 milliseconds) off again.

the death counter would take care of the "wait" timer

or if this computer is only used for the lightning effect.. you can use waits.. but make sure theres no other triggers for the computer player.. because the wait action stops the WHOLE trigger set for this player..

using waits.. it would look like this.. (the switch is off by default)

wait x (this should be a while because you don't want non-stop lightning effect)
toggle switch 1
wait 10 (by testing you will find how long you need for the optimal effect)
toggle switch 1
wait 7
toggle switch 1
wait 12
toggle switch 1

this would make the screen flash twice.. i think 3 times would look better.. it's only a matter of testing to see what looks the best..

now about the way to use this..
it would be better if it's triggered with a thunder sound...
and it should be used while the view is centered over the area... constantly centered over the same location... this location could also be centered over an unit.. like an observer (owned by ANOTHER comp so u never see it) and you make the ob move to create a "cinematic" effect.. this would be great to introduce something..

hmm i'm not sure if that was clear enough.. if you want more info.. ask me

 

ROFLMFAO

but i thought i actually saw white explosions as flashes (as in there was a buildup and climax of brightness) O_O im gonna go look for the map actually it's gotta be there somewhere.....i hope it's unprotected ehehe