Is it me, or . . . ?

It says that Hydras have the same fire rate in Brood War and Starcraft 2. I think they should have left them at 1 supply and maybe leave the attack at 10 and raise the air-attack to 12 or so to account for carrier/battlecruiser defense. Just saying, I'd rather roll with 2 hydras, 160 health in total, 20 damage in total, then 1 hydra with 80 health and 12 damage. Even marines got more health and are still 1 supply. I'm pretty pumped for Starcraft 2, but as a Zerg player, I can see why some people would be annoyed with the Zerg nerfs.

 

So are ants but that doesn't mean they can move an elephant.....ELEPHANTS ARE OP lol jokes :laugh:

haha that did actually make me laugh

But seriously Zerg do have some major issues now, and even the top Korean players are starting to drift from Zerg and move onto Terran.

You have to understand why they are at such a disadvantage now its ridiculous.

Zerg used to smash the place up, but for some reason Blizzard have really neglected them in SC2.

In tournament play Zerg are pretty popular actually and are very successful, but that's only because the pro PROS have ridiculous micro management and ninja like reflexes...., but for those players to start saying they are migrating to Terran....there's a problem with Zerg

 

I played a lot of zerg in the beta, and the only ground composition I like was hydra/ling.

Unless the enemy went early rush, roaches were pointless since the hydra has better range, attack, and could hit air; all while costing the same supply. Due to my laptop's poor framerate during battles, I could rarely ever get my infestors to use their abilities before they died. Ultra was worthless and I only got them to showoff how far ahead I was, like Protoss getting scouts in SC1.

Air seemed solid, but most ground fights became mass hydras.

 

It seems like they really rushed the Zerg and there are a lot of imbalances in the game still. I can't believe they're releasing it next week. You can't really mass Hydras anymore. I think they should bring either Hydras or Roaches back down to 1 supply because the Zerg are known for having masses of cheap, expendable units. If you have 30 drones, you have 170 supply left for 85 Hydras, as opposed to 170 hydras in Brood War. And no one is going to go all Hydra without any air or Infestors/Lings taking up some of the supply. I'm okay with Zerg air units, the Mutas are exactly the same and Corruptors do half the damage Devourers did, but they fire more rapidly. Were Hydras OP in Brood war? I'm not undertanding the nerf.
I can see Roaches being two supply since they do 16 damage and have 145 health, but Hydras only do 12 damage and have 80 health, plus they can't move while burrowed, etc.

Overall from what I've seen, I can easily say that if I was a Terran or Protoss player, I would be extremely happy about Starcraft two, but as a Zerg player I'm very disappointed. It seems the game is not balanced if the clear majority of players play Terran and Protoss. People say the Zerg are harder to learn etc. I think they're harder to learn because they got nerfed the most and it's always harder to come up with ways to win when you have a weaker force.

 

You guys are retards and are thinking about Zerg wrong, Zerg are more of a reaction race, you build up your economy get some simple teir units and find out what the enemy is doing, then you counter there forces. That is the way that zerg is played.

So if you think that ur crap is weak its because you're attacking the enemy DIRECTLY where the Zerg are meant to attack the enemy INDIRECTLY, thats why you would use FG and stuff BEFORE a battle and then move in while the enemy is slightly weaker.

And Zerg are one of the most micro intesive races, this makes it very hard for new comers, thats also why many Zerg go to terran because they are not so taxing on micro and counters, As Zerg you have to counter you're enemy not the other way around, (although if it lasts long enoungh you will probly be countering eachothers counters to the previouse units.)

 

Lol dude...thats how the game is played for the first 5minutes! AND you are speaking only on behalf of 1vs1...and what you said is what EVERY class should be doing anyway.

You scout to see if you will get 7pool'd or proxied or double gateway'd or rushed so you can counter...its just what you do!...nothing unique to Zerg at all

Half of that is true..., yes they are pure micro and can be very daunting and fidgety and for new comers they are too hard to use i agree!

But i would say they are JUST a counter race

Zerg are a harassment class and are more about slowing down the opponents, stopping them expanding and wearing them down until you can go for the jugular push so to speak.

But as you pointed out that is only successful if you are able to micro well.

 

It doesn't make sense why Zerg players would switch to Terran if they want an easier race to play. The Zerg were always about large armies and expendable units. The terrans were way more about micro and tank pushing, etc. How can you say the game is balanced if the Zerg army can't meet an equal army head on? You'll have to meet them head on at some point. What if they attack your base? The bottom line is that the Zerg got nerfed, they are weaker now, and people just say "oh, well you have to micro more" or "you have to hit and run now" or "they're a harassment race instead of a brute force race." You could say that about any race that got nerfed.

 

Its the diversity other races have to offer now.

In tournament play there is a massive migration to Terran because they can handle pretty much all solutions, Zerg can not.

They are underpowered and not balanced in any way shape or form.

 

I can totally agree with you there. My main beef with this game is that I'm a Zerg player because I like the idea of swarming the enemy and over-riding their defenses. If your army dies, you quickly raise another one because the units are cheap and expendable. I think of them as the Persian "immortals" where there are people ready to take a soldier's place as soon as he falls. I always thought they were supposed to be swarm-like and attack in great numbers.
I think the Zerg air is pretty decent, it's moreso the ground units I have a problem with.
Since they lost Dark Swarm, Hydras should go back to one supply or get a good buff to be worth 2 supply.
Lings and Banelings seem okay to me.
Roaches are decent but could maybe get a range upgrade.
I always found Ultras to be useless, so I'd much rather have Lurkers, especially with the range upgrade they were supposed to get.
Infestors seem okay and can hopefully still mind control air units.

 

I love how zerg are expected to do nydus/ovie drops, sling run-bys, muta harass, and get a bunch of t3 units in the same game just to compete with basic, low level play from terran players. And I agree, this BS about zerg being the harassing race drives me nuts since we have fewer harassment options than other races.

When I play Terran and I want to harass, i wall off and think.. hmm do I want to get some early reapers and abuse all of the cliffs that bliz conveniently placed outside their nat... or maybe I'll get a few helions with all of the extra minerals my mules provide and roast a bunch of workers... or ya know what... im gonna tech straight to banshee b/c he doesnt have lair up yet and 3 banshees will be GG!... or I'll spam vikings and alternate between killing workers and ovies, or I wanna play like the pros and do quick thor drops... and so on...

Toss don't have as many options, but early zealot pressure, blink stalkers, warp gates/warp prisms, dts, early void cheese, all very effective tools.

 

@tskarz

You listed five Terran options and five Protoss options, although I don't consider early void rays and early zealot pressure as harassment, it's cheese, although you can harass with void rays. You also missed warp prism drops.

I can think of five ways Zerg can harass: running Zerglings into their base/expo, overlord drops, nydus worms, mutalisk harass, and burrow moving (tunneling?) roaches or infestors in their base.

Running Zerglings to attack SCVs is more or less the same as a Hellion harass. Meahwhile, Zerg drops are much easier to do because you essentially pay 300 min and 300 gas for unlimited dropships that only cost 100 min. Also, Nydus worm can be very effective if you catch their army out of position.

That being said, Mutalisk harass isn't as good against Terran as Viking harass or Banshee harass is as Terrans get Marines right off the bat and Zerg either needs to get an evo chamber (which most people get after Lair) or tech to hydras, which is tier two.

Tunneling can also be blocked pretty easily with detectors, which makes it close to using DTs.

 

Apart from the early game rushing/harassing stuff, the Zerg are extremely underpowered in my opinion. As a Zerg player, I don't want to have to end every game within 5 minuts just to be successful, or tech to Tier 3 to match the other race's Tier 1 units.
While the Zerg air isn't too terrible, the ground is awful. The only thing I can say about air is that in getting rid of the Scourge and flying queen, they could make Mutas or Corruptors a bit stronger. Why are Hydras Tier 2 if they're worse than the Hydras in BW? I actually think the Hydra nerf is worse than the Roach nerf because Roaches have decent health and do decent damage. As long as they can hold their own against 1 zealot or 2 marines, then it makes sense. There's no way Hydras should be 2 supply if they have 80 health (the exact same health as a 1 supply Hydra in BW) and 12 damage. I'd recommend their stats be closer to that of a roach.
To sum it all up, I can't believe they're releasing this game next week with the obvious imbalances. The Zerg are supposed to swarm and over-run the enemy's defenses, not turn into the vietcong.

 

Just a couple of things to point out...

Thats pretty much what they are for indeed...quick harassment and to give you either a very early GG is you opponet has done something stupid or slow them down by a minute.

Zerg drops are soooo risky, pointless and long. You have to remember you have to upgrade the hatchery, then upgrade Overlord speed, then upgrade so they can carry units THEN pay 100 minerals to build the overlord...and if that doesn't work not only have you wasted a lot of time you also run the risk of being unit blocked by losing overlords.

By the time you have reached that point your opponent will have anti-air and air units.
People are so savvy to drops these days and are very hard to pull off against good players who scout for proxy and sneaky nydus drops.

Canals are excellent, but i pretty much only use them to get around the map quickly or into mineral fields that can only be reached by air.

I got away with canal drop in the back of some peoples bases a few times....but thats not saying much about my opponent...it will never happen against top players.

Quick Mutalisk rushes are easily countered by 2 anti-air turrets and a couple of marines, if protoss two proton towers and a couple of stalkers.
If you are rushing with muta's and tech to the ASAP you end up pushing with 4/5 maybe 6 if you have marco'd well...but as before if you are playing against a good player its easily dealt with, against a bad player its GG.

In theory ALL the harrasments you mentioned SHOULD work...but they dont, Zerg are too easily countered on all levels...and as Mattbaumann777 mentioned above...Zerg ground units are just not good enough - they need an extra two units - one that shoots air because the only things we have are hydras and queens....and queens are glued to our base so really we have one!!

But terran start with 1 straight away and protoss have damn teleporting stalkers

Zerg is grim in sooo many ways.... and another thing actually...why have we been stitched up with our base defence? yeah our spin crawlers are excellent BUT terran can make bunkers...shoots land AND air...protoss build cannons which shoot land AND air AND see cloaked

lol sorry for the wall of text

TL: DR....just having a bit of a moan :laugh:

 

Yes, drops are tier two tech, same for every race, therefore it takes time to get there. Here's why Zerg drops are the best. Sure, you have to pay 300 min 300 gas to be able to do drops, but once you get it you have as many dropships as you could want.

Zerg has to get
Spawning Pool -> Lair -> the two upgrades (which can be gotten simultaneously if you have an expo)

Protoss has to get
Gateway -> Cybernetics Core -> Robotics Facility

Terran has to get
Barracks -> Factory -> Starport

Each race has to make three steps, and yes the Zerg has a higher initial cost, but a lower cost to continue making the "dropships". Which is more or less the same as every Zerg unit.

You can also run speedlings into expos which are normally not blocked off or delay them by running in and killing them quick before they finish. If you do it enough Terrans will start wasting money on Planetary Fortresses or Toss will throw up a lot of cannons.

 

every race may have air units at the same teir but Zerg take longer to tech up, but the Zerg use them by wearing down the enemy

Quote: VampireBob
a lower cost to continue making the "dropships". Which is more or less the same as every Zerg unit.

But drops are countered so easily making them not worth it in the end becuase by the time you come back they already have ample defence (turrets and marines/a ground army in the convienent location of there base.
I think this is more of an end the game type thing though cuz I've seen A (ONE out of alot (thanks to HD and Husky)) were the Zerg player was going to doom drop and then the terran spotted it and got turrets (waste of time/money) but the game I did see this work the Zerg player also got ultralisks and SURROUNDED the enemy, then they stand no chance, this showed me ultras aren't underpowered but are only useful in the right situations, and the Zerg player (on steps of war) basicly had to contain the enemy and expand like a maniac for this to work. (it ended with a base race/doom drop on the terrans main...Zerg won)

 

But then doing that its costing you an extra 350 minerals and a loss of a drone. 300 for the hatchery and 50 for the drone.

The whole need to use drops in the first place can be totally wiped out if you scout well.

That money wasted on making Overlords into carriers i would rather spend towards mutalisks.

 

I didn't really articulate the difference I suppose.. but zerg harrassment and early pressure is much more easily countered (terran can throw up wall+ bunker, toss can use wall/zealot +1or two sentries to stop much larger force) and feels much more all-insh because you have to cut drones or leave your base vulnerable. The toss and terran players can sit back behind a wall, continue to power workers, and have the comfort of knowing that even if their cheese fails their base will probably be safe.

 

well im playing Zerg and i really think its hard
zergs are a bit too weak if you ask me (probably cause IM playing it) xD
but seriously the need to get Buffed !!! D:
especially the roaches

 

I don't think the Roaches are the ones badly in need of a buff. They have decent attack and health or a 2 supply, tier 1 unit. Hydras would better suit a buff since they are tier 2, 2 supply, more expensive, and have less attack and health than Roaches.
A lot of people say Banelings are OP, but I think they could actually use a buff since you're wasting a lot of gas on suicide units that really don't do all that much damage, and a lot of them die before getting to their target.
I also find that Corruptors are extremely weak against Void Rays for a specialized air to air unit. I don't have any complaints in their ability to fight capital ships though.

 

I have been playing Zerg because they are my favorite. I would agree that they are slightly weaker than the other two races. However I also notice that I rarely play a Zerg opponent. This means less people are trying to figure out the unit combos and strats that dominate nearly everything. I'm getting the basic style that you must play with Zerg and its all about versatility. The main problem being the fact that they have no viable air vs. air counter.

Sucks, ill let you know when I figure it out though.