Infestation Omnidiscussion

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Here's an idea: what if when a ship became corrupted it became a suicide bomber (like scourge) with the effect varying according to the size of the ship?

At the moment the corrupted units have very little effect. Most players will just ignore them.

I want to know what you guy's theories are about what the infested Protoss will look like.

 

Ekulio - that's not true. Players will only ignore a corrupted unit if it is in an obscure spot on the map. If the corrupted unit is near their base or around the enemy's base (sites of most battles), than they'll have to deal with it. After all, it acts like a turret.

 

In addition to that a corrupted unit provides surveilence. You don't want to leave them there and let the Zerg player see your movements

 

I see them as people, who were in the wrong place at the wrong time.....lol

 

In the demo the vikings ignored the corruptors while they attacked the corrupted units, but a real player would definately attack the corruptors first and finish the corrupted units later, so the "decoy" tactic doesn't really work. That's all I meant.

 

I agree with Ekulio: the Corruptors would certainly draw more attention than the corrupted, and the damage output of corrupted units may not be so good. If they're a suicidal air-craft, however, things might come out differently...

 

Having the corrupted act as suicide units puts us back to the merits of creating fully functional units by means of killing others. I'd be wetting myself if I knew i was facing a creature that could turn all of my fleet into fancy looking scourge with a normal attack. At least with the current mechanic the corrupted only serve as surveillance and minor harassment to migrating enemy forces.

 

A) We don't know the damage output - it probably is minor, but not necessarily.

B) Most units simply kill. For instance, if a Mutalisk destroys your Battlecruiser, you are now out one Battlecruiser. However, with the Corruptor, not only are you out a unit, but the enemy Zerg ALSO gains a turret!

So basically, even if the corrupted unit is only a minor annoyance, it is still enough of a mechanic to be threatening. The enemy is getting a bonus for killing your unit. Making corrupted units do serious damage would be a recipe for imbalance.

 

If anyone has any closing thoughts please post them now as I am preparing to summarize and submit this for inclusion in the monthly report

Also please make suggestions for next month's topic (see my sig for link) to ensure we discuss a topic you care about

 

I didn't read everything, but something is disturbing me. Sorry if somebody already answered to my question


What does happen if an infestor infests a bunker ? I mean a bunker with, for instance, one marine, one ghost, one marauder and one reaper inside. Will those units be infested too ? Will the be morphed into just infested Terran of one infested marine, one infested ghost, one infested marauder and one infested reaper ?

I personnally think the will not be infested into each of the Terran units. Too many infested units to be created.
Infested marines so ? But where do the infested Terran shield and armor come from if a ghost is infested for instance ?

So I think that if a bunker with units inside is infested those ones will die. ...

 

What are your overall thoughts on the new mechanics and the greater variety?
Lots of potential but will be a tricky mechanic for blizzard to pull off.

How should infestation affect the Protoss?
It should give the zerg something they can't get otherwise, but not infested protoss. Protoss buildings don't even contain protoss, they are all warped in.

Should the spores used in infestation just outright destroy their equipment or would you like to see infested Zealots and
corrupted Carriers?


What about enemy Zerg?
the building should get sick, maybe start corrupting creep that would do damage overtime. This would make it a viable ZvZ tactic.

Can they be infested?
Refer to above.

What would happen there, simple control over their buildings as if they were your own?
Spread toxic creep.

Something more hideous?
Thge building should differently look uglier.

The Infestor
This unit is able to spray a vile fluid at enemy structures turning them into tentacled masses of flesh. So far we have seen barracks and an engineering bay infested and all of them produced infested Terran that fire their rifles.
Do you like these new Infested Marines that fire their weapons instead of suiciding?
I'm torn on this. I think claws (like kerrigans) would be better but i can see the attack should be ranged for balance reasons.

Should their weapons fire the same rounds as regular marines or would some kind of acid round with greater damage be better?
How do you infest an alluminion spike?

If other buildings higher up the tech tree were infested what should they produce?
Infested Terran. Only production buildings should be infestible(or atleast produce units) and should all produce the same unit.

Would you like to see infested tanks?
Infested Battlecruisers?
No. Too many units.

Being mostly mechanical would these higher up units self regenerate?
^

Would a Terran ally be able to repair them?
^^

The clip shown was rather short so we don't know what happens to the structures long term. What should happen?
Permanent, lift offable. After the initial units are spawned there should be a long delay before spawning additional units or act like a normal building going by a pay by pay basis.

Should the infested structures be parts of the swarm until destroyed?
Yes

Should the structures remain in the swarm for a few minutes then revert back to normal structures if they don't receive more spores?
Hmm... the building should slowly lose health unless on creep. So that you have to lift off and move or use an overlord to keep the building for an extended period of time.

How long till they revert?
No reverting, should lose something like 1hpps whenb not on creep.

Should infestation be curable?
The Medic is currently out but could the Dropship have a uninfest ability?
No but maybe there should be a way to destroy the infestation, e.g. the building reverts when it is destroyed.

Should infestation be based on how long the spore spray has been on the structure?
Probably a buff, the buff counts down rapidly while being infested (somewhat slower as damage over time) counting seperate as hitpoints.

How long should it take to infest a building? Would it be a fixed number or based on hitpoints so a Command Center takes longer than a Barracks?
Depends entirely on the way infestation is going to work. A building should not take longer than another if they do the same thing while infested and the infestation goes away, for example.

Alternatively should the Infestor's spray do damage to the buildings and infestation happens when the building hits the red zone like it once did when the Queen infested CCs in SC1?
If it goes by hitpoints then yes.


How much damage should the spray do?
Balance issue.

We have seen the Corruptor take control of air units but not ground units.
Should the infestor be able to do to ground units what the Corruptor does to air units?
No. You would assumably need an enclosed place, like a ship or building, to infest a unit and not be safe for the zerg to do in the field of battle.

The Corruptor

How should corruption work?
A buff with a point system based on hitpoints.

Should it happen after a unit has been hit X times by a corruptor or should it happen when the unit dies/ hits a certain HP?
Above.

If corruption occurs on death should the corruptor need to make the death blow or would the unit still be corrupted as long as a corruptor hit it a short time ago?
This doesn't make sense. corrupting a unit would take an entirely different process than destroying one. Hitting a ship with a hydralisk spike or destroying one with wurms shouldn't aid the corruption.

How much health should the corrupted unit have?
maybe abit lower than the amount that it had when corrupted (going by my buff system above).

Same for all or larger units having more?
based on hitpoints at time of corruption not max unit hitpoints (but the unit could have the max hitpoints the same but have the ingame number fixed on a number, e.g a corrupted battlecruiser might say 364/500 but not regenerate hitpoints)

Should the units fire the glaive wurm attack when corrupted or turn and fire their original weapons?
A zerg weapon of some sort. possibly similar to the corrupters maggot attack
How much damage should the glaive wurm attack do? Would it b fixed where all units from the banshee to the BC do the same damage or would a BC do more?
The damage per hit should be the same but a better unit should shoot from more points.

Will this attack be AtA only or attack air and ground or would it be whatever the corrupted unit can do (corrupted banshees have AtG only while BCs have both)?
Anti-air. it is what the corrupter was designed for.

Should the units be imobile or would you like to see them move?
How fast?
Immobile. They would be just drifting through space.

How long should corruption last, should it be permanent until the unit is destroyed?
Permanent.

What happens when the corruption wears off?
It shouldn't. If it does the unit should simply die.

Would it be curable by certain units?
No. If for balance reasons it should have to be boarded to clear it. A Medivac for example might use this on a battlecruiser and after a set time the units will return to the dropship damaged (a set amount of damage to randomly distribute to the infantry). the protoss should simply pay resources to warp units aboard to clear it.

Would corrupted units take up pop cap?
No, not if its just a stationary turret.

How much?
If so, a very small amount, 1 or 2.


The Colossus counts as both an air and ground unit. Should it be corruptable?
Yes. Lorewise it doesn't really fit but gameplay goes above that and they are saying the collosus mops zerg up so they should be able to exploit its weakness with their only dedicated anti air unit.

 

What are your overall thoughts on the new mechanics and the greater variety?
I'm a huge fan of it. I'm glad infestation is being made accessible.

How should infestation affect the Protoss?
Broodlings only.

I'm not a huge fan of Infested Protoss. However, I'm aware that they're not Hybrids. (For starters, they are a short duration creature.)

Should the spores used in infestation just outright destroy their equipment or would you like to see infested Zealots and corrupted Carriers?

Infested Terrans in the original concept art carry guns. However, I wouldn't expect Infested Protoss to be able to use their psionic equipment. I don't think corrupted ships should be able to use equipment.

What about enemy Zerg?

No effect.

Can they be infested?

No.

What would happen there, simple control over their buildings as if they were your own?

N/A

Something more hideous?

N/A

The Infestor
This unit is able to spray a vile fluid at enemy structures turning them into tentacled masses of flesh. So far we have seen barracks and an engineering bay infested and all of them produced infested Terran that fire their rifles.
Do you like these new Infested Marines that fire their weapons instead of suiciding?

Yes.

Should their weapons fire the same rounds as regular marines or would some kind of acid round with greater damage be better?

Infested Marines in StarCraft: Ghost had an "infested Gauss rifle" that fired poisonous ammo. However, those Infested Marines were playable characters that had no duration, whereas the StarCraft II version is supposed to be weak (since you get many of them). I would expect them to do regular damage.

(A "heroic" Infested Marine should do poison damage, though, IMO.)

If other buildings higher up the tech tree were infested what should they produce?

The same. (Maybe instead of Infested Marines they should be Infested Light Infantry, which you would expect to find in any "crewed" building.)

Would you like to see infested tanks?
Infested Battlecruisers?

No!

Being mostly mechanical would these higher up units self regenerate?

N/A

Would a Terran ally be able to repair them?

N/A


The clip shown was rather short so we don't know what happens to the structures long term. What should happen?

The infestation should eventually fade.

Should the infested structures be parts of the swarm until destroyed?

No.

Should the structures remain in the swarm for a few minutes then revert back to normal structures if they don't receive more spores?

Yes.

How long till they revert?

Based on playtesting.

Should infestation be curable?
The Medic is currently out but could the Dropship have a uninfest ability?

No. The ability isn't easy to use, and such a cheap cure is ... cheap. Also it would take more chemicals than a Medic can carry to uninfest a structure. (And, of course, you can't target Restoration on buildings, which is one reason Plague is so freaking annoying in StarCraft I when you're playing a Terran.)

Should infestation be based on how long the spore spray has been on the structure?

No. If you only spit on a building for a second, then you haven't pulled off the powerful ability properly. I wouldn't want an Infestor to just keep spitting on a building, either.

How long should it take to infest a building? Would it be a fixed number or based on hitpoints so a Command Center takes longer than a Barracks?

Same duration. Perhaps longer for a few important structures (such as the Command Center) but most buildings do not have hit points based on their importance.

Alternatively should the Infestor's spray do damage to the buildings and infestation happens when the building hits the red zone like it once did when the Queen infested CCs in SC1?

No way!


How much damage should the spray do?

None.

We have seen the Corruptor take control of air units but not ground units.
Should the infestor be able to do to ground units what the Corruptor does to air units?

Maybe with a new ability.

The Corruptor

How should corruption work?

Similar to how it does now. I would like the ability to be a "debuff" just to make it a bit more obvious. Possibly costing energy or cooldown, but during this time the ship takes more damage. (Corruptors are currently pretty weak, or so I hear.)

Should it happen after a unit has been hit X times by a corruptor or should it happen when the unit dies/ hits a certain HP?

The latter. And upon death, not at low hp.

If corruption occurs on death should the corruptor need to make the death blow or would the unit still be corrupted as long as a corruptor hit it a short time ago?

No. It shouldn't matter who deals the death blow. (If it were a debuff, and the unit died while debuffed and so transformed, it would make it clear that the Corruptor doesn't have to deal the death blow.)

How much health should the corrupted unit have?

Some fraction of regular hp.

Same for all or larger units having more?

?

Should the units fire the glaive wurm attack when corrupted or turn and fire their original weapons?

They lose their crew and engines, so Glaive Worm.

How much damage should the glaive wurm attack do? Would it b fixed where all units from the banshee to the BC do the same damage or would a BC do more?

More powerful units should deal more damage.

Will this attack be AtA only or attack air and ground or would it be whatever the corrupted unit can do (corrupted banshees have AtG only while BCs have both)?

It shouldn't be based on the original ship's weapons, but being able to fire AtG as well as AtA is a good idea, IMO.

Should the units be imobile or would you like to see them move?
How fast?

Immobile.


How long should corruption last, should it be permanent until the unit is destroyed?

No. It should have a duration. Otherwise there'll be fleets of turrets sitting all over the map, which is overpowered for something that doesn't cost minerals or vespene.

What happens when the corruption wears off?

Sploot!

Would it be curable by certain units?

No. (Corruption takes a lot of work already.)

Would corrupted units take up pop cap?

No. They're temporary.

How much?

None.


The Colossus counts as both an air and ground unit. Should it be corruptable?

Yes.

 

--What are your overall thoughts on the new mechanics and the greater variety?
I really like how infestation is gaining a place in Zerg gameplay. It's such a defining trait of the Zerg race to not be utilized.

--How should infestation affect the Protoss?
I think Protoss should be able to be infested; the Zerg infested Aiur, didn't they? Infested Dragoon-like units spawning from infested Protoss structures would be very cool and appropriate if you ask me.

--What about enemy Zerg? Can they be infested?
I think Zerg should be able to infest each other.

What would happen there, simple control over their buildings as if they were your own? Something more hideous?
Zerg infestation would be like infesting any other race; fleshy outgrowths and tentacles cover the structure, etc. Zerg structures are alive, so the infestation would basically be feeding off the structure, like a parasite. Some kind of broodling-like unit could spawn for the player.

The Infestor
This unit is able to spray a vile fluid at enemy structures turning them into tentacled masses of flesh. So far we have seen barracks and an engineering bay infested and all of them produced infested Terran that fire their rifles.
--Do you like these new Infested Marines that fire their weapons instead of suiciding?
I do like how they are now ranged units, but I don't think they should fire thier rifles like a normal marine.

----Should their weapons fire the same rounds as regular marines or would some kind of acid round with greater damage be better being (most likely) a mid game unit?
They should fire some kind of acid round. However, the damage should remain the same; it would be for lore sake only.

--If other buildings higher up the tech tree were infested what should they produce? Would you like to see infested tanks? Infested (not corrupted) Battlecruisers?
I believe all stuctures should produce the same infested 'marine' unit. My take on the subject is that all Terran structures are being operated by some Terran worker; the pilots of ships are not the only Terran individuals in each structure.

--Should the infested structures be parts of the swarm until destroyed?
Infested structures should be permanent, but slowly take damage over time if no creep is present, like other Zerg structures.

----Should infestation be curable? The Medic is currently out but could the Dropship have a uninfest ability?
I don't think it should be curable. One would believe that infestation causes considerable damage to the interior of the structure; crucial components, devices, etc. Reclaiming the structure just wouldn't be worth it.

--Should infestation be based on how long the spore spray has been on the structure? How long should it take to infest a building?
It should be based on the base hitpoints of the structure.

--Alternatively should the Infestor's spray do damage to the buildings and infestation happens when the building hits the red zone like it once did when the Queen infested CCs in SC1?
No, the building shouldn't take damage from infestation. An infested Terran structure, for example, would be heavily damaged to the Terran's eye, but to a Zerg, it would be a perfectly healthy infested structure.

--Should the infestor be able to do to ground units what the Corruptor does to air units?
No.

The Corruptor
This is an air to air unit designed to be the Zerg's primary anti-air flyer. It fires spores at enemy air units eventually corrupting them. Once corrupted the enemy units grow tentacles and become imobile firing what appears to be glaive wurm though lacking the bounce ability.
--How should corruption work? Should it happen after a unit has been hit X times by a corruptor or should it happen when the unit dies/ hits a certain HP?
The Corruptor should apply spores while attacking, stacking up to 5 times. If a unit reaches 0 hitpoints and has 5 spores, it should become infested, rather than dying.
----How many hits would the unit need to receive/ what health should it be at for corruption to occur?
Death while having 5 spores, no matter what causes the killing attack.

----If corruption occurs on death should the corruptor need to make the death blow or would the unit still be corrupted as long as a corruptor hit it a short time ago?
Any unit can make the death blow as long as 5 spores are applied by death.

--How much health should the corrupted unit have? Same for all or larger units having more?
Corrupted units should have hitpoints equal to thier base hitpoints, but slowly take fixed damage over time. Therefore, large units will remain corrupted much longer before dying compared to corrupted small units.

--Should the units fire the glaive wurm attack when corrupted or turn and fire their original weapons?
They should not fire thier original weapon, but I would prefer a different attack animation than the glaive wurms.
----How much damage should the glaive wurm attack do? Would it be fixed where all units from the banshee to the battlecruiser do the same damage or would a battlecruiser do more?
All units would do the same damage, but larger units would have a longer duration; somthing fairly low, maybe 9 or 10 damage per hit.

----Will this attack be air to air only or air and ground? Would it be whatever the corrupted unit can do?
Air to both air or ground. This will give the unit more utility.

--Should the units be imobile or would you like to see them move?
They shouldn't be able to move.

----Would it be curable by the Medivac Dropship? Another unit (perhaps a Protoss unit)?
No.

--Would corrupted units take up unit slots?
No.

--The Colossus counts as both an air and ground unit. Should it be corruptable?
Yes. The Colossus is an extemely powerful unit against Zerg; this would force Protoss players to use the unit with more care.

Overlord
The overlord will be able to spray a vile mist to corrupt resources for area denial purposes.
--What should be the effects of this corruption? Total prevention of use by other players or a resource rate reduction?
I think total prevention is appropriate, as long as the 'corruption' is killable. It should act as an annoyance and a means to divide enemy forces.

----How should it affect the player who corrupted the resources? Same as enemy? None? Increase gather rate?
The player who corrupted the mineral can harvest them like normal minerals.

--Should Vespene be corruptible or just minerals?
Vespene should be able to be corrupted, with the same mechanic as mineral. The 'corruption' needs to be killed off before harvesting can begin, or in Vespene's case, construction of a harvesting structure.

--How long should this corruption last after the Overlord has stopped spraying?
Permenantly.

--Will other players be able to remove the corruption early (Via Medivac Dropship, perhaps)?
Corruption will be a killable 'unit'. Considerably low hitpoints, but an annoyance, requiring the player to bring units to kill it off.

Other Questions or Comments
► Infestors need a new model.
► Corruptors need a better attack animation.
► Starcraft II is going to be amazing!

 

i don't get how corruption should be on damage, in a team game for instance how would blowing up a battlecruiser with missles help to corrupt it?

 

By the way this is an old discussion and I already did the write up on it.

The current discussion is the protoss discussion

 

For those of us new to the forum, where do you keep the write ups?

 

I send them to Jon.
I should probably retrieve them and put them up as articles

 

Infesting and gene splicing are two different things. When the zerg infest a command center and infested terran are created, or even protoss. Is much different than when duran genetically "under a scope" creates a completely knew species using what zerg species they used and some protoss genes.
Eventually there could be a (Zerg/Terran/Protoss/Xel'Naga) hybrid. but since the terran and protoss are only one species, and chances are the Xel'Naga are too. Each Zerg species could be mixed with a different species of the zerg, a terran, or a protoss hell even a protoss/zerg/terran hybrid. This opens up hundreds of possibilities

Technically lol

Having a duration on infested protoss (COP OUT). Why would they? THis is just stupid

 

Infestation is about forcing something onto you, while gene splicing is to find specific traits within the DNA. Zerg overrides anything and everything in their path so far, with Protoss being exceptionally difficult because they were tampered by the Xel'Naga. Samir Duran captured both Zerg and Protoss specimens, in order to combine their DNA (the good portions) into something the Xel'Naga consider "Perfect", This creates a whole new species, the only relation to the Protoss and Zerg is that they are the Hybrids' Fathering race.

Zerg Assimilation is dangerously close to this, yet the Zerg gene is ALWAYS dominant (as opposed to Hybrid gene being codominant). Meaning, it forces Zerg DNA onto the Protoss DNA, by the Zerg DNA ABSORBS the good qualities of the Protoss DNA before discarding it. The new Zerg DNA is now a new Zerg blueprint, so now practically ANY Zerg can get the energy needed from the Creep, to mutate/change themselves (their DNA) into the new blueprint. The cycle goes on and on.

Infestation comes before Assimilation, because Infestation is needed to take control of the host before it is changed enough to be absorbed by the Swarm.


-Psi