Ideas for new Zerg Mechanics. (Post your theories and ideas)

i would normally get DK first then buy a dark archer from the tavern second. if there wasnt a tavern, then i would get a lich. but the game would normally end when he was ~ lvl 4 or 5. so D&D wasnt much used by me. i did like leveling bases with it when i did get it.

 

Back in starcraft 1, the Larva's and the Egg's carapace armor was a whopping 10+3. That's higher then any other unit in the game. Carrier had 4+3, BC had 3+3, Ultralisk had 2+5. The Larva itself had a low HP of only 25. Whilst the Egg had a huge HP of 200.

Relating the concept of a ultra high armor of Larvas and Eggs to Zerg Mechanics. I can only think of the 10+3 armor was for balance purposes. Logically I think it's quite impossible to have a 10+3 carapace. So setting aside balance issues, would this unusually high armor be used or benefit to any actual Zerg unit in starcraft 2?

 

The reason for larva's ridiculously high armor is because you can't damage a unit-in-training against Protoss or Terran, nor could you hinder the unit production capabilities of P or T without completely destroying a building.  As you said, it is for balance.

Egg and cacoon is about the same, because even though you're mutating/evolving, it's really the samething as training a unit outside of the protection of a barracks, gateway, or whatever else.  Zerg units are generally low on HP/armor anyway.

I doubt any normal Zerg units will get too see anywhere close to 10 armor though, not really even for Protoss, 10 armor is a lot.

EDIT: SirBaron, I finally got to power you up. My goodness that took a lot of time, and so much efffort. I kept getting really conscious about it and try it every two seconds.

 

Perhaps we'll see a so fast regenerating zergs, that can only be killed by very high dmging units, or by very fast hitting units, even though they would still have low armor. It would mak them resilient to interceptors and marines, but weak against colossus, reapers and siege-tanks.


BTW, sry for not reading this whole topic before posting, but it's grown quite huge. Someday I promisse to read it through!

 

Has any one noticed there is larger resolution in the screens and 15 action buttons in the right hand panel....

in sc and bw there were only 9... this was also one of the reasons zerg had to mutate into the next creature because they simply wouldnt fit in the larvae select screen.

Any way that leads me to believe that in the expasion(s) of sc2 there will be up to or more than 15 units for zerg... bw had 13 including infested terran 14 including broodlings.

As for mechanics i'd like to see lairs always have 1 larva present and hives always have 2.
not the maximum this is thou... so hatcheries could still breed 3 units at once... but hives could breed 3 then immediately 2 then immediately 2 and etc.... then if you wait 3 again.... i dunno how powerful this would be... sure would fit in with the zerg swarm mechanic. And both other races never have to wait ... (and terrain can now build 2 at once...)...

--- thou on a side note i think blizzard will create some new amazing design for the zerg that will just rock our minds...

another mechanic id like to see is for hydralisks.... they used to deal 10 damage... but i think they should instead deal 6 and have duel attack... so they shoot 2 spines... dealing either 12 to one target or 6 to two simultaneously (either air or ground)....

i think this would work well with the swarm feel, and i think with a bit of effort it could be balanced preety easily...

This could yield disadvantages to poor zerg control because the lisks would spread their attacks if you didnt control them properly....but in the hands of a skilled player could be insanely valuable.

 

lol thats actually really interesting, I'd never have thought that sc1 limited interface could have led to such dramatic things. owerup:

 

the dual attack idea might seem a bit awkward, like when it shoots it just pivots around really fast.

 

The problem is that they would be left with 2 weaker atks, and influenced 2 times by the armor. If Hidras keep at one, they will have a higher dmg. ;-)

 

- Slow moving Amoeba-like Zerg unit that grabs and pulls in smaller targets around it; grabs and slows larger targets. Can turn into creep on death or command.

- Unit based on eating targets.

- Unit with 'Carrier-like" swarming-attack mechanic.

- Unit that eats your own Zerg units and regurgitates them to attack; consumed units could be useable again after being spit out, but with damage. The longer a unit is digested the more damage it deals, but the less health it comes out with. Units can be fully consumed after enough time, killing them, but causing the most damage.

 

i think the nydus cannal could use a new mechanic:

upgrade it so one it could have 1 entrance but up to three exits. to make this even more effective you could load units into the three exits and hold them until you choose where you want to deploy them. this would allow you to coordinate a massive troop placement. the limit on loading would work like any dropship in that better units used more space. this would more effective than the new ghost drop ability and give the zerg a strategic edge to counter terran aoe attacks. this would also depend on what blizzard decides to do about creep. if you can temporarily set creep with a mobile unit an upgraded nydus cannal could be op

 

I think that the Nydus Worm is the new Nydus Canal. There would be no point on have both of them.

Personally I think they should do something like this :

If there is an underground travel ability, when the units reveal themselves, it kinda as a daze effect on the enemy units. Like they cannot attack for three or four seconds. It's not much, but it can change a battle. What do you think?

~~dp02~~

 

=== Genetic Code Index (Drone upgrade, Tier 2 at Lair) ===

Universal upgrade for all drones to be hardwired with the genetic info of all the basic Zerg units.  By basic, I mean units evolved directly from the larva and not an evolved aspect of another unit.  Basically it allows you to evolve any and all drones into a unit just like how you would a larva, there is no additional cost beyond a unit's normal cost and build time.  Although you would lose the 50 minerals per evolution for the cost that went into a drone.  Cancelling an evolving drone would cause the egg to burst and die just like an egg from larva, this is to prevent cheesing with super egg armor everytime your drones are under attack.

I kinda stole my own idea from my Plant Race worker unit.  At first glance people might think about building units at the frontlines, but this is a bit different than the Zerg Turtle idea.  The Zerg Turtle is superior in that regard and I believe can coexist with the Gentic Code Index upgrade.  The reason why Gentic Code Index doesn't work like the Zerg Turtle is that there is no reason for you to pay 50 minerals and walk your drones to the frontline and evolve them, when you can just get those units straight from the larvae instead of making drones first.

So is this mechanic useless then?  I think not.  With the addition of the Planetary Fortress and repositionable Phase Cannons, Terran and Protoss has received greatly improved base defense capabilities.  But since having uber defensive structures that do it all for you really isn't the Zerg way, this is the Zerg's answer to Planetary Fortress and Phase Cannons.

Gentic Code Index can be utilized as a last ditch effort to defend your expansions or your main base.  When things don't look so good and you think you are likely to end up losing many drones anyway, you can evolve them into combat units to save yourself.  There is obviously a downside as your economy would take a hit momentarily, but that's where careful analysis of the situation is required and would separate noobs from pros.  If someone recklessly goes buckwild with Gentic Code Index constantly, they would quickly put a huge deficit on their own economy and lead themselves to their own demise.  But utilized at the right timing and situation, a Zerg player has the chance of turning a losing battle with dead drones galore into a shot at counter attacking, or at the very least defend against an assault that he would have fallen just a bit short on.  If you scouted enemy troops heading toward your expo or main, and you simply could not rally enough of your own existing forces to the hotspot quickly enough, you can use it to save your ass.

As the Zerg is IMHO characterized as the most flexible of all races, there is another interest aspect of the Gentic Code Index that enhances the Zerg further in that regard.  Gentic Code Index while generally a bad idea whore out, it can still be utilized offensively.  It would provide some more chips to the Zerg table in the game of timing rushes, or perhaps referred to as delayed rushing or late rush by some.  A timing rush is a rush performed later than the usual early-game rushes, with greater number of low tech units, in order to catch someone at the timing of making the transition from tier 1 to tier 2.  When a Terran gets factories and starts to get 1 or 2 tanks but has no siege mode ready, that would be the approximate timing.  When someone thinks that "OK, so you've given up rushing at tier 1, I guess we'll both tech up and settle things at tier 2," you overwhelm them with a much larger number of zerglings than expected at that timing.

So with Gentic Code Index, a Zerg player can now fast tech(not super fast, just not slow) to tier 2 and immediately research the Gentic Code Index upgrade.  Then based on the results of recon, the Zerg player can choose to completely shut down his own economy and evolve all(or most) of his drones into combat units for a more devastating timing rush, with an added chance of success.  At the same time, the Zerg player is obviously taking on a much greater risk, so I think while powerful, it is balanced out by the risk factor.

Now you have more flexibility, more rushing power, and more options for Zerg.

 

Wow. I just finished reading the entire thread, as I always do before I post *cough*.

Anyway, I found some amazing ideas in here. Some that didn't look so hot could easily be revamped into a formidable (and balanced) weapon for the Zerg masses!

I'm gonna start commenting on random things, so please bear with me. I had some of my own ideas, but they were either mentioned or totally overwhelmed by some of the amazingness in this thread, mostly from ych9 and Remy.... blew my Zergy mind.

I absolutely, and I mean absolutely love the idea of the Overlord being able to supplant Creep at a different location. I'm not sure if I'm all for it being able to turn back into an Overlord as it might not be enough of a consequence unless you have to sacrifice the Overlord, but it DEFINITELY makes it possible to drop units. I never used to do it as Zerg because even with a small amount of resistance it was usually rather ineffective. Zerg definitely needs an early game expansion ability rather than waiting for a hatchery to form... we know how frustrating THAT is.

I also love the Super Creep idea that allows for an extended range of Creep.... all at once disruptive to the enemy and beneficial to the Zerg! Finally, regarding Creep, I saw an idea by a poster that was pretty much dismissed as imba, but I found rather.... awesome. I have never had a real way of dealing with capital ships from the ground in a Zerg base other than massed spore colonies... we may have found the answer.

Someone suggested a "GRASPER COLONY" which would deal a one-hit kill to Capital ships, or any other unit.... I think if it has a cool-down it would be completely IMBA, but if it was a SACRIFICING attack, in that the colony dies after inflicting it, it might shy those Capital ships away without completely deterring them from coming near .

Another issue dealing with the Zerg Creep and control is that someone mentioned the Cerebrates. I like the Cerebrate idea, but its just barely palatable to the storyline of SC. Kerrigan could technically control the Cerebrates, I guess, though I don't think that is her style, to delegate. But if you did have them in the game I can't see them as being caster units. Use them as control units, just like they were intended. You can build them at outposts and it will automatically create Drones to mine and create a basic defense and a few units. This would play on Zerg's abilitiy (and master strategy) to create numerous outposts (usually 2:1 ratio to the enemy) and would allow the player greater control in this new fast-paced battlefield. Let's face it, it's going to be REALLY hard for Zerg to maintain that many bases and still fight at this new speed. BTW, the Overmind is definitely out. Don't ever mention it outside of Single Player.

EDIT: Of course, this Cerebrate unit would be built by a Drone, on creep, would be immovable, lower HP, and would have a limit (and need to be built near minerals).

I am definitely with Remy on creating some kind of caster for tier 2 Zerg. Too long have we been oppressed by the enemy's ability to irridiate us and cause havoc among our forces without a legitimate answer for their weapons! I'm not really sure of the mechanics of how this needs to work, but I think Remy is basically on track and I think he has analyzed the situation to a greater extent than I ever could.

On that same note, I saw a lot of ideas posted about abilities that seemed a lot like something from WC3(i.e. - Auras, Rage, etc....). This is a BAD IDEA! Units do not need boosts in SC like they do in WC3. It's gay. And retarded. And.... I don't know, WC3ish???? ON THE OTHER HAND you can do things like this, but you MUST take the example from the Terrans. They can increase their attack speed but it requires the sacrifice of health (I know about Medics, don't lecture me). A 20% speedup cannot be "unimbaed" by a -20% speed decrease. I would suggest that we go with the approach of the unit being faster and then dying, kind of like a "beserk" mode, but I've seen that in other games and its pretty hard for most people to handle correctly. Basically the Zergling would increase attack speed by 50% or so and then absorb extra damage during it and automatically die even if it had survived the encounter.

Sorry, the Zerg Chosen will not work. It's an ultralisk with abilities.

Sorry Remy, but I don't agree with the Turtle. It's kinda.... weird. I could see it working but I'd rather it not be part of the Swarm. Zerg is fast, it would not be. I understand where you're coming from and I could accept it, but would I petition for it? No. But I do REALLY like your idea of the Genetic Code Index.

I love the Genetic Code Index. I need to power you up more often, but I'm still on the 72 hour limit because I JUST powered you. I do think this ability would need to be carefully balanced. It definitely fits the Zerg strategy of "adapt and respond." It sounds like something Blizzard itself would come up with. It's pretty much ingenious and I wish I had come up with it myself. It's the perfect counter to the Defensive problem that will crop up with the Planetary Fortress, etc... I know there are times that I'm busy teching and forget about a large enemy detachment heading my way and simply forget to build though I have the minerals. This would allow Zerg players to quickly respond to a situation just ONCE and save their asses and pay attention. It would also result in a significant hit to the player's economy and be a sufficient consequence for the action.

I don't like the idea of a Hydralisk being a base unit that can reconfigure itself a number of times. Part of the Zerg philosophy is that you can create huge numbers of units. I could see retransforming back and then to another but I think it would be imba and allow the Zerg to reactive a lot faster than they already do, and that might be too fast.

The last thing I'll be negative about is the extension of the "consume" ability beyond defilers. The Zerg are not really cannibals.... that's not part of their "theme" to any great extent. It's just a "nasty" ability that happened to be in SC1. I wouldn't mind its return, but not on an even larger scale. I also don't want to see them eating their enemies for regeneration. Way too WC3. Not gonna happen.

I wish I could articulate some of the ideas I've been floating in my head, but they don't seem to come out all the time. I did have a good idea of what I was going to post, but some of those ideas were either mentioned or completely made to look retarded next to some of the things mentioned in this thread. Great ideas guys, I really like them. I hope I didn't hurt any of your concepts of your ideas and only made them better.

Long live the SWARM!!


EDIT: OMG I just typed an entire page....

 

One thing i have always thought about is the "Spawn Broodling" ability of the Queen. It's effectiveness is object to much doubt, since it's purpose was to spawn units from enemies rather than one-shotting powerful ground based units (as was the case in SC1). So, some month or two ago, i came up with a new unit in the "Suggest your Own Units" thread somewhere in the deepest recesses of this forum, which essentially had the crucial parts of the "Spawn Broodling" ability, except it was tied to attacks rather than a chunky spell.

The unit in itself was a heavy aerial caster named Zerg Brood Queen, and was very reminiscent of a Carrier in the way it attacked. Scrap this unit, and just go straight at the ability.

Spoken in the plain and easy tongue:

Name: Spawn Broodlings
User: Zerg (Insert Something Cool and Sinister), Light-to-Medium Aerial/Ground Caster (Pref. Air)
User Weapon: Zerg Locust Projectiles
How to Attain: Unit Receives ability for Free when trained (morphed, warped-in, w/e...)
Description: Adds Broodling Eggs to the Zerg (Insert Something Cool and Sinister)s Locust projectiles, which then attaches to enemy units and begin to grow. It grows for about 10 seconds, after which each egg bursts and spawns a Broodling unit, a tiny, weak unit with low attack damage but quite high attack speed.

What i wanted was the Spawn Broodling ability to spawn Broodlings, and a lot of them as well. In return, the Broodlings are weaker, while the death effect of the Spawn Broodling ability in itself is gone. It works a little like a parasite, except it stacks (up to 5 times) and then disappears after 10 seconds and spawns the amount of Broodlings corresponding to the stack. Of course, Medics can remove this effect.

Another thing i was inspired to invent was the "Morph Egg" ability, which on the drawing board is pretty much a rip-off from the 1st Alien movie, where the aliens capture and morph some of the crew into face-hugger eggs.
Essentially it hastily corrupts the struck unit (causing about 15 damage each second up to a maximum of 75) and - if lucky - erode their health enough for it to die and morph into special Zerg Eggs, which can morph into units like normal eggs - BUT - these special eggs have very little health, no additional armor like the normal ones, and they also take the same amount of time to build units as normal eggs do.
This eliminates the possibility of "front-line" spawning. My idea was to take advantage of attacks made against you by spawning replacement units from the dying, or your successful attacks against exp-bases, which would allow for faster drone construction.

Note that these ideas need some serious tweaking, and that i leave to you. Go ahead criticize as if it was christmas evening, it will do nothing but good in this case.

 

I think generally one-shot-kill abilities, especially ones that extend the effect beyond low tech(tier 1) units.  One-shotting capital ships even while sacrificing a structure in the process will created a lot of balance issues.  I can already think of many but I don't really want to go into that, as I do not regard the idea to be a very balanced one to begin with.  I think if all it did was entangle a air unit and go from there, it would be more balanced.

This is what happens when you're fired up about Zerg.  Yup, only Zerg, sorry nothing else, just Zerg.

Oh, and I love my Zerg Turtle.  You're just a hater LOL.  But seriously, not just because it's my idea, but I really believe that it suits Zerg gameplay very well as well as fit into the overall Zerg theme.  I think the main reason that you do not like it is perhaps you envision a hulking unit that is HELLA slow.  But I think as slow as an unupgraded hydra, or even just a tad faster than that, is slow enough.  If that's not it, then you're just a hater.  Everyone loves turtles.

On a side note, Joneagle_X, I give you props for reading through entire threads before you post. That's what I do as well. It is sometimes annoying when people just breaks the flow and pop out of nowhere to post something completely different from what's being discussed at hand. While reading just the title or opening post and replying accordingly will undoubtedly be on-topic, but sometimes it's the discussions that branch off later on that's truly interesting and valuable.

 

Lol, like I said, I just thought it would add an interesting ability to the Creeps. When I reread what I posted, I figured that with the super creep that would be too many things to upgrade to.

Like I said in my post, I could accept the Turtle. Heck, I could even come to live him if he's not too slow, but if he's fast it seems kind of imba to be able to transport a hatchery that far. To compensate for it he would have to have very few larvae at a time, maybe even only one!

What did you think of the Cerebrate I described? Automated base control? Pretty delicious

 

Remy, go work for Blizzard

I <3 your crazy Ideas

 

Blizzard would never hire him. He'd take over their game development. Lol.

I love how random and universe changing these suggestions have become to me. I suddenly see the Zerg as a completely mobile force.

BTW, I did a few calculations about the movement of your Turtle, and I'm convinced that it could work....

Instead of slowing the unit down like I had originally thought they would have to, you could simply cut the movement to about the speed of a drone.... a little slower than an unupgraded Hydralisk, if I remember correctly.

You could then limit the number of units produced at a TIME from the Turtle to two, therefore, allow only two larvae to be alive at a time from the Turtle. Also, you need to make the build time slightly longer, maybe by about 5 seconds, to compensate slightly for the distance. After your two units have built, there would be a cool-down period, and then another larvae would appear, just like a regular hatchery!

So, on a scale of 1-10 of acceptedness with me, I would give the Turtle a 6. I'm still not sure how much it would really affect Zerg gameplay, but it does have potential.

 

it could be used as a tank?

 

I'm assuming it wouldn't have an attack since it would be so useful in producing units.

The question I'm having now is if it would be allowed to move while units were being produced.