Ideas for new Zerg Mechanics. (Post your theories and ideas)

the sacrificial skull? that thing was nice for putting down some ziggaruts quickly.

 

yea. it could be usefull to put up some sunkens say, near someones base or ramp.

 

i dont know if this has been presented(havent seen it) but i think a nice upgrade for ov's mid-late game would be the ability to mutate its transport capacity so that it has the normal 8 spaces; but it has an added 3-4 that would be used only to hold lings(maybe hydras but i'm leaning to only lings); i would love to be able to drop a real swarm on people but as of now dropping 8-12 ovs(to get a nice large army) is extremely hard to maneuver and pull off and since the zerg are, as has been pointed before, the zerg are a swarming place.

 

i dont know why just lings, i mean giving it 4 extra spots are fine. u can chose between lings, 2 hydras, etc.
It's a nice idea to upgrade capacity though.

 

madmatg, that is a good idea for the Overlord to have an upgrade to have maximum of 8 units that they can carry. But I think that upgrade should go to the DropShip. Because as of now, the Dropship has no special abilities whatsoever. On the other hand, every other races transport has other abilities like the Phase Prism can turn into Phase Mode and the Overlords can act as a detector + supply.

Since the DropShip has no other abilities, in order to make up for it, I think that the Dropship should have the upgrade that would allow them to carry 8 units maximum.

 

wut if zerg had a unit that its attack would not be affected by armor upgrades and stuff. Like for example its attack would be 7 (+3 upgrade) and it would take exactly that much off the opponents health. Im not saying it should happen but wut would you think you whould have to tone down in order to make this unit a balanced one? less health? slow attack speed?

 

I've suggested the idea for all Zerg combat units to have at least one evolved form way way back in a post burried under the dust somewhere. By combat units I mean all basic(non-evolved) units with a normal attack, excluding the ovie and caster units. Drone is normally not considered as a combat unit, but I'm including it in my idea. Since zerling got the baneling mutation, that just leaves drones for now, until more basic Zerg units are revealed.

I didn't have an idea as to exactly what the drone's evolved form would be at the time of my suggestion, but now I got one. I think something like StormCrow's STINGER idea would be perfect.

Let me build on StormCrow's idea and elaborate on how I think it should be tweaked to keep balance and have it fit in better with the rest of Zerg.

Drone evolves into the Stinger aspect, become a cheap air unit at a minimal cost, tier 2 upgrade perhaps researchable at Lair. The Stinger would lose the Drone's original attack and would have no normal attack at all. The Stinger would still be like StormCrow's idea in that it will be a small air unit that's cheap and highly expendable, yet with some abilities at the cost of having no direct attack.

The Stinger stats would roughly be as follows: 1 supply, 50 HP, NO energy(mana), 0 base armor, no air/ground attack, sight range of 7, evolution time(build time) of 20, and a movement speed close or equal to that of a scourge. The Stinger also has the following abilities:

PARASITIC OUTBREAK - The stinger targets an enemy air or ground unit then dives into it and bursts into a splash of small parasites. It attaches a parasite to all enemy units in a VERY small AoE raidus. The parasite is the same as the queen's spell in SC1. The stinger dies in the process.

CREEP SPLASH - The stinger converts all its genetic material to that of the creep while diving in to the ground at a target location. The stinger goes splat into the ground and splashes into a 3x3 area of Zerg creep. The creep will provide faster HP regen and buildability, going along with the previously mentioned creep rush and fast HP regen on creep ideas. If left alone, the creep area created by the stinger will fade away after 15~30 seconds.

INFEST HOST - The stinger dives into a target enemy unit(ground and air) and attaches to it face-hugger style. While attached, the stinger lowers the movement speed of the host by 25% and also does a very small amount of damage very slowly over time. The tic damage is very slow and is only 1 damage per stinger per tick, the stinger will only deal a total of 100 damage and then it dies. There is no way of retrieving a stinger that has attached to a host, it can only either die after deal 100 damage, die with the host before that, or get killed(by targetting it, if mechanic for targetting attached units could be implemented somehow). A maximum of 3 stingers can infest the same host, so at max it's 75% lowered movement speed and 3 damage per slow ass tick. The host unit has no way of directly attacking any stingers attached to itself.

The Stinger would start with the Parisitic Outbreak ability. The Creep Splash would be a cheap research around 50/50~75/75, while the Infest Host ability would be more expensive at around 100/100~125/125.

As you can see, I have put heavy emphasis on expendability and self sacrifice and much less on powerful spells, so it can't really be considered as a true full-fledged caster unit even though it possesses special abilities. In the end you would have a cheap air unit that you can use to scout in place of ovies(ovies are slow) and also have some abilities handy to aid the rest of your Zerg troops. Notice that stingers don't really aid you in combat directly, even the Infest Host ability would deal damage way too slowly to make a difference in the heat of battle, it is more for the slowing effect to manage enemy air and fast ground. And also notice that everytime a stinger uses an ability, it dies no matter what.

I thought the original unit hi-jacking infest idea of StormCrow was a little too powerful, especially for a small, cheap, expendable unit. I was going more for the feel of small insects throwing themselves at larger animals to defend their colony, even though they don't do anything individually, they still serve to annoy in numbers. I think it would go pretty well with what Zerg already is.

 

@Remy: Now *that* i like. owerup: It's near perfect - i for one hope Blizzard squeezes it in (damn excited actually, having cheap casters rather than super-expensive ones)

Hehe, in fact, after i read it i was like "GOGOGO SUICIDE DARK SWARM SPAWN UNIT" but realized that would be waaaay OP considering the cost of the unit itself.

EDIT: um, that powerup will have to wait a few hours. Haven't gone 72 hrs since the last one i gave you :-\

 

Same thing here, I've been trying to power you up every chance I get, but I keep getting the 72 hour message.  I still owe you one.

I think for power ups they should remove the cooldown, and just keep the 72 hour limite for power downs.  I never power people down anyway, have only done it once way back around when all it first happened.  But I wanna show props for good posts that I appreciate more than once every 3 days damn it.

Oh, and thanks for your kind word.  But please don't forget that the Stinger was originally StormCrow's idea and he deserve credit for it.

 

Yeah, that's true.

Well, props to StormCrow for the Stinger, a really awesome suggestion (now perfected further by Remy).

owerup:

EDIT: Crap! Can't power StormCrow up either friggin 72 hrs limit...
EDIT2: Now that i think of it, this thread is pure Power Up-wars...

 

Seems like Remy pulled it up better than me I really like that idea. For that I'm going to shoot your stingers down with a word of owerup:

That unit would be very useful for delaying enemy mid or end game attacks.Lets say you used your very first stinger to spread parasites near enemy starport. You see hes building someting, what?, 3 battlecruisers already. He starts to attack you with 3 Battlecruisers and 5 siege tanks, and you can see them coming. You take your 8 stingers and use them to weaken and slow the enemy down. While the enemy is crippled, you are preparing for a counter ;D

The creep ability would definitely help in mid or end game fast expanding.

I have a question though. Is the Stinger able to harvest minerals or able to morph into structures?


Edit:

Now that I think about it more carefully. In my opinion, the creep ability needs a buff. A drone costs 50 minerals, the morphing probably costs another 50 minerals (no? it wasn't mentioned) , and the research for the creep ability another 50/50 minerals and gas. Thats about 100 minerals and 50 gas for a 3x3 area of creep Also, I didn't come across with any problems with creep in SC1. There was always some when i needed it.

Suggestion: Take away the 2 researches and replace it with one 100/100 research, called: Morph to stinger, researchable straight from the Hatchery. The stinger would start the game with all 3 abilities. The morphing cost should be 20/20, because Stingers die so easily, and they need to sacrifice themselves to actually do something.

Then again balancing and finetuning can be left on Blizzard's shoulders... No stress 8)

thoughts ?

 

here, ill save all of you the trouble of the 72hr limit owerup:

@stormcrow, it would probably be better if it didnt, or else youd be giving too many roles to one unit.

 

Yea, pearhaps it is better if the Stinger wasn't able to harvest or morph. But I'll put that aside for now and start with a new idea (omg they just keep popping.)

A new type of mid tier unit!

=== The Zerg Earth Breaker === (a possible morph from Hydralisk, or a completely new unit.)
150 HP, 2 Armor, Doesn't have normal attack move.


The Zerg Earth breaker is an unique type of evolution, and has a pair of handy abilities.

1.) Quake waving:

The earth breaker burrows it's big tail part deep to the ground, and starts to send pulses, making an earthquake to a radius of 7x7 tiles (This unit being on the middle tile). This earthquake has 2 effects.

One of these is aoe damage on ground units and buildings, 2 damage per second.There is a catch however. The more there are earth breakers on the area of the earthquake, the more damage it does. This stacks up to 5 times (10 dmg per sec). They form a type of underground matrix that continuously sends pulses to the ground, forming a devastating earthquake. Hovering units recieve 50% less damage.

Another effect of this ability is that, if the earthquake stays stationary for 30 seconds, the ground literally starts to break apart. This means that its no longer buildable (or landable by Terrran buildings). If there are any buildings on the area, they will collapse.


2.) Another ability is called, ''Hardened shell'' (yes i like this kind of ideas)

At this point I'd like to add that this unit is about the size of a lurker.

When using this ability, the Earth breaker morphs into a stationary defensive stucture with about 400 HP and no other attack move except its' spiked carpace that will damage melee units that are attacking it. (size about a supply depot). The morph wouldn't take more than 5 seconds to perform and It can morph back to its' original form at any time. This would open the Zerg some defensive tactics.

Thats about it.

Already have another idea for my next post, but it needs some polishing

 

StormCrow I agree with you that the creep splash would need to be slightly better, I came to the same conclusion after some thought. I originally thought the AoE should be small so as not to be abusable such as fast HP regen on creep 24/7 or non-stop creep harassment to hinder your opponent's building construction. But since the ability is not energy(mana) based and you are sacrificing a stinger instead as you pointed out, it could be slightly better. I think 5x5 or so would do, 6x6 at max.

I imagined the stinger evolution to be a permanent mutation. If stingers could go back to drones it might be abusable.

About your earth breaker's quake wave idea, I think perhaps it would be better to drop the ground cracking(unless it's not permanent) and just slightly increase the damage instead. Also instantly demolishing all buildings in an AoE could get really crazy. That's very close to what Lich's Death&Decay ultimate was in War3, that's pretty powerful.

 

I have a slight suggestion regarding the Quake Waving ability:

Instead of it instantly destroying buildings or making land unbuildable, make it so that it's damage doesn't apply to Buildings *at first*, but then after 30 secs, it does. It will still be the same damage as against units. Oh, and this includes your own buildings.

 

@ remy, the quake made me think of the farseers ulitmate earthquake, rather than the lichs. did high damage to buildings, and slowed unit in the area of effect.

@ stormcrow, having a radius of 7 would cause the whole thing to affect across a 14 tile diameter. thats a huge area. i like the damage over time on building and reduced damage to units, but making the land unbuildable seems a bit over the top, especially if its permanent. and the low 2 dps against building doesnt seem practical as that would only ammount to 60 damage over 30 second, up to 300 damage across 30 seconds.

for the hardened shell, to you mean to have it mostly work as a wall? block of chokes with these units to keep your defences safe from melee units in assaults?

overall, i like your new units, but a few revisions would make it more practical.

 

I agree, StormCrow has good ideas, some of them just need a little tweaking like most things.

Death and Decay came to mind instead of Earthquake because of the count down death to buildings. D&D is all buildings in AoE disappear in 25 seconds, where as the Quake Wave is 30 seconds. D&D works on units too but since units move around, it usually meant that you won't get the full duration on them. Earthquake IMO had better tactical potential, where as D&D was crazy if you could pull it off on clusters of key buildings such unit production buildings, as well as townhall or altar.

 

Hmm I'm not sure if my idea is going to work well or not, because it will be quite a disadvantage for the Zerg players themselves.

But I was thinking dividing all the Zerg units into 3 stages.
Stage 1 - drones, overlords, zergling, hydralisk
Stage 2 - mutalisks, scourge, queen
Stage 3 - ultralisk, defiler

Stage 1 units can be produced from larvas spawned from Hatchery, Lair or Hive.
Stage 2 units can only be produced from larvas spawned from Lair or Hive.
Stage 3 units can only be produced from larvas spawned from Hive.

I didn't put in the Lurker, Guardian or Devourer because they are morphed from existing units.

Yes I know. It'll be too much of a disadvantage to the Zerg players themselves. The way to overcome this is to reduce the cost and time for building Hatcheries, Lairs and Hives. This way the player can construct more of them. But it will take away the Zerg's advantage of changing unit strategies in very little time.

 

it took me a second to understand what you were saying. i think i get it now, tier 3 units can ONLY be built by hive, tier two can ONLY be built by lair or hive, and tier 1 can be built by any? that seems really disadventageous.

@ Remy, i understand what you meant when you made the D&D connection now. i personally rarely use the lich, and if i do, chances are im not gonna get it to lvl 6 before the end of the game.

 

Distinguishing and limiting what units could be built at hatch/lair/hive kind of defeats the purpose of the Zerg production design.  Zerg was designed to have a streamlined production with just a single central building that produces all your units.  This flexibility in production is the strength Blizzard built into Zerg, and the simplicity of tech is the personality they design for it.

I never felt that nerfing was ever a good way to go.  I've always liked the idea of buffing everything equally rather than nerfing a few.  In this case, I can't really see the purpose of such a severe nerf on Zerg that also takes away one of their main racial identities.

@ Burkid, Lich was my favorite UD hero.  I've gotten Lich as my first/main hero the most out of playing UD.  I owe D&D for some big come backs and instantly finishing some games.  But the main reason for anyone to get Lich is to spam nova for sustained damage output and added crowd control.  My second was usually DK.