Ideas for new Zerg Mechanics. (Post your theories and ideas)

i quite like that. would improve the rush defense significantly. cheers!

i agree with pretty much all your points, and in particular, your final point.


i especially like the concept of infestation. It not only fits the race, but it is the ultimate leveler of races. it really fixes a lot of the balance issues imo

 

A leech unit or cast would be pretty crazy

I guess it would work like the reapers bomb but the difference is that it takes health as long as its their rather than just have it blow up over when times up. i guess you would be able to take it off the same way that you would a reapers bomb.

but I guess thats kinda how plague works

 

Lurkers being able to move up and down cliffs would be pretty cool looking, although I'd prefer if they could move around underground. They've always been one of my favorite Zerg units. The Nydus worm sticking a tentacle out of the ground to check out what's above him is very cool. It would look sweet and it would give your enemies a heads up on what's about to knock on their front door.

 

I'd like Lurkers to move underground too, but it could get a bit unbalanced. They're similar to Seige Tanks in that they have to be stationary to attack, or attack more powerfully in case of the Tanks. Imagine having Seige Tanks that could move around and attack at the same time.

An egg-laying Queen would be cool, as will Larvae transporting Overlords. That would make it easier to expand or do some surprise drops.

Also, how about an ability where Zerg buildings can absorb units into themselves to restore health, increase damage/armor, faster construction/upgrades depending on the unit/building used. For example you could have a sunken absorb a hydra, and the sunken will have extra range or damage, absorbing a muta to a Spore colony or sunken to hit multiple units, or sacrificing a drone at an Evolution Chamber/Hatchery/Lair/Hive to increase upgrade/unit construction speed. There'll have to be a limit on the number of absorptions a building could have for balance reasons, like up to four hydras, four drones, eight lings, etc and no high tech units. And the building could have a new look associated with the upgrades, like additional spikes for hydra-infused sunkens or a brain-like mechanism at an Evolution Chamber that has absorbed a drone.

 

2 zerg unit (mutualisk + hydralisk) combined and mutate into a new completely new zerg unit aside from each unit evolution(hydra-lurkers).

 

=== CREEP MECHANICS ===

I agree that Zerg units should regen faster on creep, I've always wanted this even from back in early SC1 days. I also like the idea of overlord providing creep, but I have thought things into more detail.

I think the overlord should have a "mode" in which it plants into the ground(become ground targetable) where it spreads a fair radius of creep, but there would be a minimum cooldown time before it can go back to "ovie mode" again. The creep mode can be used to provide increased HP regen for your troops away from your base, as well as allow buildings to be put up at remote locations. The minimum cooldown is there so you can't constantly switch out ovies to be in creep mode and have fast HP regen all the time while your ovies are mostly safe from ground attacks. The cooldown makes them ground targetable and provide counter strategy for opponents. The cooldown would need to be long, at least 30 seconds, although you would still be able to keep ovies in creep mode beyond the cooldown time.

I think the creep mode should be innate, you have it right from the start without needing to research an upgrade. You can choose to lay down creep in your opponent's base with your first scouting overlord to disrupt building, it would add another interesting mechanic to Zerg early game.

To go along with that I think there should be a third evolution for the creep colony, something like an advanced creep colony. It should to be very cheap, perhaps 25 minerals for the upgrade, and its sole purpose would be to generate a creep radius that's much larger than the standard creep colony. The idea is that along with the ovie creep mode, you can "creep rush" someone, but since ovies are rather flimsy and not good to lose early on, you can plump down an advanced creep colony to disrupt your opponent's building. Of course it doesn't completely prevent your opponent from building(if it did it would be OP/imba anyway), but you can prevent them from placing buildings where you don't want them to, such as delaying a Terran opponent from barricading his choke for instance. As another example, creep rushing might be used in attempt to delay an opponent from expanding to his natural.

If all this is implemented, Zerg players would have the option of sunken rushing(non-Zerg opponents) for the first time, as well as having options of the new "creep rush."

=== ACIDIC BLOOD ===

Acidic blood, an early upgrade(tier 1, tier 2 latest) that alters the genes of all Zerg to have their blood, bodily fluids, and all the juices and whatnot become highly corrosive acid. What this would do is, when Zerg units(ground as well as air, perhaps even buildings) go splat! upon death in a pool of blood, it deals damage to enemy(not allies) units/buildings around them.

It would have a very small effect radius, dealing damage to adjacent units/buildings only. The damage dealt would need to be extremely small for balance, something roughly equal to 50~100% of the damage the unit deals in a single attack. However, I think it should be calculated based on the unit's max HP, because banelings shouldn't deal noticeable damage when killed, and calc based on unit's normal attack damage would make it too high for units like baneling or scourge.

I think damage equal to 5% of a units max HP would be quite adequate, not too much to be OP but still enough to add to Zerg racial identity as well as provide an edge in battle. But I also thought, to make it even more interesting, make the Acidic Blood upgrade work with units' armor upgrades(not base armor), where each upgrade adds 1 to the acidic blood damage, 1 point NOT 1%.

So based on SC1 stats, each zergling would deal 2 points(1.75 rounded up) of range 1 AoE acidic blood damage upon death, 3 damage with level 1 armor upgrade, 4 damage at +2, and 5 damage at max armor upgrade. Hydras would deal 4 damage when they die, mutas would deal 6, ovies would deal 10, scourges and larvae deal 1, ultras deal 20, and eggs deal 10. I think perhaps ultra's Chitinous Plating armor upgrade(if ultras are back) should also add to the acidic blood damage equal to the amount of +armor.

=== SWARMING/CLINGING ===

Zerglings should be able to jump onto enemy units and buildings and cling onto them allowing more others zerglings to be able to attack the same target at once. This could be for any fast small units that have melee attacks, but I don't know what other units this idea would be suitable for, seems to be only zergling at the moment.

How many zerglings can cling onto one target should depend on the target's size. Small units like marines or zealots should not have any zerglings cling onto them. Medium units should have around 1~2 zerglings clinging onto them, and large units should have about 3~4. Large buildings and fat boys like the Thor might allow even 1 or 2 more on them.

Basically, the idea is that once a target is within melee range of a zergling, it can jump on and cling to it. The clinging zerglings would still deal damage the same way they would otherwise, same damage and same attack rate. This would still provide the benefit of allowing more zerglings to taret the same thinga at once to overwhelm it with a swarm, as well as against fleeing units. If a Terran microed a cobra against lings but got too close, 1 or 2 lings could jump onto it and hang on while it moves about.

The lings that cling onto the enemy would not be directly targetable nor can they be shaken off in any way. But those lings that cling take damage every time the host unit attacks, all lings that are clinging will receive the damage at the same time but the damage is shared equally among all the clinging zerglings. For example, a host unit deals 20 damage per hit and there are 2 lings that are clinging on, each zergling would take 10 damage every time the host units attacks even though it's targeting something else.

Another thing is, the lings that are clinging on will receive damage if the enemy player attacks the host unit with the enemy player's own units(not from friendly Zerg units attacking the host). For instance, you have 2 zerglings on a Protoss Immortal, and the Protoss player takes his other Immortals to attack the one with lings on it, the Immortal and the 2 lings would all take 100% damage from the shot.

The idea was pretty simple when I thought it up, but I think I made it sound more complicated through my explanation.


=== INSTANT UNLOAD ===

I mentioned this before I think in the nydus worm thread. The Zerg overlord, if it's back otherwise the air transport equivalent, should be able instantly drop ALL the units that it carries with "unload all." This should also be a Zerg exclusive, Protoss and Terran should not be given this feature, yet Zerg needs it.

As I've explained in the nydus worm thread, Toss and Terran both have powerful units as awsome drop options. Tank and reaver deals great damage per hit, and you can one-two pop them in and out of the dropship/shuttle during their attack cooldown to avoid taking hits. Even just two tank/reaver in one dropship/shuttle can be effective, they are certainly extremely powerful. The added possibility of microing to cover their weakness of slow attack rate(long cooldown) yet still able to deal damage effectively is another plus.

The Zerg has never had such drop options. All of Zerg is about strength in numbers, and individual Zerg units are very weak. I think it would benefit the Zerg to be able to insta drop a full load, or at the very least at a highly increased rate over the other races. Maximum carrying capacity of the overlord might need balancing for insta drop.

=== LARVA PRODUCER, AKA "ZERG TURTLE" ===

I think this is something I suggested in the fate of the ultralisk thread, it has been dubbed the "zerg turtle." It is a large high tech(probably tier 3) ground unit that produces and carries larvae on its back, basically a mobile hatchery. The reason why I'm suggesting this over the idea of overlord transporting larva is because of balance. A unit would cost mineral and gas just to have for this purpose, but more importantly it would take up food supply. Since each "zerg turtle" would only produce up to a fixed maximum number of larvae and they take up food themselves, you are then faced with a balance equation X food per Y remote larva. You have to keep the number of zerg turtles in careful balance, because each one takes up food and resources that could otherwise go into producing more combat units.

On the plus side, having a couple of them near the frontlines can prove useful in quickly replacing key units or just a few combat units that fell in battle. For instance, if the enemy hunted down your caster units that you really need to turn the tide of battle, you can produce a few more with the zerg turtle to replace the ones you lost.

The exact amount of supply cost as well as resource cost per zerg turtle would need testing and balancing, but I think perhaps 3 food per turtle would be adequate. The larva spawn rate should also be equal to the hatchery and not the increased rate of lair or hive.

 

hmm... i have an idea. Perhaps the zerg can infest any building they want. For example, if they infest a barracks, they can make all the units in the barracks with the same type of attack and health but it's infested, which makes it cooler. Also they can infest the factory, starport, gateway, and so on (maybe not the robo facility). they can also infest the nexus or scv. Doing this will allow them to create infested scv's or probes. The probes build anything but they can be used for mining. So after a zerg player takes over an expo they just infest the expo and they auto maticly get that expo without needing to wait to build a hatchery.

 

i like the zerg turtle idea. i hope blizz will think and come up with this one or at least almost similar to this. yes a new unit that carries larvaes. zerg are monsters and they need more huge unit like the ultralisk.

swarming and clinging is nice to look at, but i prefer zerg units (new) that can crawl up a cliffs or higher grounds.

"I think the creep mode should be innate, you have it right from the start without needing to research an upgrade. You can choose to lay down creep in your opponent's base with your first scouting overlord to disrupt building, it would add another interesting mechanic to Zerg early game."

^ same mechanics as the protoss. pylon canon rush or phase prism on remote locations and warp units or create canons (overlord using the ability of creating creep then use nydus canal or create sunken). i think its imba specially early games.

 

Ummm... cannon rush was never an imbalance.

All types of tower rushing was hard enough to pull off successfully against equally skilled opponents(assuming you're skilled to begin with). People who consistently fall to it are usually hardcore turtlers, people who don't scout, or people who never look at their mini map. All of the above are not examples of skilled play, not even intermediate.

But either way, you can bet on cannon/bunker rushes be in SC2 once again. It will at least level the playing field for Zerg since we never had our version of cannon rush.

 

ah, ok. sorry. yes you are right. equally skilled player anticapates most of the time what their opponents will do. i just dont like it in b-net, sometime you fight against noob(cannon rush works) and the next one you fight against a skilled player(90% of the time canon rush fails). i just hate seeing noobs losing against tactics use by pros ei, canon rush, bunker rush, building barracks near enemy base etc.. imba for noobs. i just hope they change the setting of b-net where you can choose to fight only those who are equally skilled as you.

 

I really like the Zerg Turtle idea Remy.
It opens up tons of new startegies if there is a Zerg Turtle.

Like mentioned, the Zerg Turtle should definetely be way up the tech-tree. It should cost a lot, and have tons of HP

Also to add the idea to the Zerg Turtle, maybe it should have an aura that increases nearby units armor by 1.

I know that many people would think this is too Wc3ish but hear me out. I think the Zergs are actually very suitable for aura benefits in the SC universe. As you know, the Zergs are mindless creatures and controlled by the Overmind and Overlords. It would make sense if they are near some units, they are more civilized and controlled. A Zerg Turtle could work in a way in that it actually commands the Zerg units in battle. If the Zerg units are close to the Zerg Turtle, they would become more civilized and controlled, and therefore, would fight more efficiently.

 

good idea. armor aura given by the zerg turtle.

auras for the zerg! i think its about time to involve buffs and auras on starcraft, it will not be imba ofcourse same as on warcraft. anyway like you said its more suited for the zerg, which is correct, i like the idea of zerglings swarms going berserk(additional attack speed) if they reach this certain amount of number or a certain unit is with them.

for the protoss a new unit that gives additional AOE shield. costly like carriers tho.

terran i cant think of any, just give them a new terran mobile bunker train like unit. siege tanks plus this train owns. anyway just make it costly as the battlecruisers and a tier 3 unit to avoid imba.

 

Auras for SC? It's too much like Warcraft. If you want to give zerg an armor aura, might as well give them an infested Paladin.

 

Nothing Wrong with Auras. Upgradeable Overlords that can actually "control" the zerg armies to simply fight harder. It doens't have to be just regular + damage/ +hp regen/ +armor/+movespeed/ +attack speed variants...

For a massing race, they're better off applying AoE buffs (as well was evolution chamber upgrades).

 

Remy, those are all brilliant ideas and I've been thinking about the Overlord landing and creating creep for awhile myself. I would power you up one, but I've done it in the last 72 hours, so you might have to remind me that you're deserving of one later. ^_^
Anyhow, here's a couple ideas I've got (and I'm going to borrow your format for them too, Remy):
=== HYDRALISK EVOLUTION: HUNTER KILLER ===
I have this posted in the Multiple Hydralisk Strains thread, but I love this idea personally. Hydralisks can currently evolve into Lurkers, but since Hydralisks are the bread and butter of the Zerg army, it makes sense to me to have them able to take different forms like the Mutalisk can. The Hunter Killer would be very similar to the Hunter Killer from the original in terms of looks; it is basically a big, reddish Hydralisk. However, this one would have two legs and it would be a melee attacker. It would be slightly hunched over as well. With its powerful two legs, it would have the ability to jump up and down cliffs. It would have similar health to the Hydralisk but do slightly more damage and have a very fast attack speed; when it attacks it could rear its head up in rage and then come down with its scythe arms and just tear its opponents to shreds. Other ideas I've had about this unit are that maybe when it attacks an enemy unit, as it gets more hits in, or alternatively, as it gets more kills, it starts to attack faster or perhaps gain a permanent damage increase. Maybe every five kills it would gain one damage bonus or a slight boost in attack speed; the maximum bonus would be the third or the fourth gained at either 15 or 20, respectively. This could come as an upgrade, and perhaps a movement speed increase would come along with it.

=== HYDRALISK EVOLUTION: SERPANX ===
A third possible form for the Hydralisk to evolve to would be the Serpanx. A lean, greenish creature with features similar to the Hydralisk, the Serpanx also has the ability to fly. It's wings come out of its shell everytime it is told to move anywhere, but when it is idle they remain behind its hardened carapace, like a beetle. The Serpanx is also a melee unit, however it must land to attack and cannot hurt air units. With its increased mobility, it would have a relatively quick attack, though slower and less powerful than the Hunter Killer. It's movement speed would be very fast. It would also have similar health to the Hydralisk. An upgrade available to it, however, would allow it to attack air units, as the Serpanx has learned how to better use its wings. A visual change with this upgrade would be that it would now have four wings instead of two and they would be larger and it would move much more efficiently. It would attack air units by hovering by them and attacking them with their tail, which would deal heavy damage to the enemy aircraft. To attack ground units, they would still have to land.

=== ZERG UNIT/BUILDING: CEREBRATE ===
We all know about the Cerebrates, but I've never quite understood whether they were giant worm creatures or not, since they seem to have many legs planted in the ground by them. Anyhow, my idea is that this is a unit built by a drone, that actually has the ability to move very slowly, except it can only move on creep. It would have very high hit points but would not have attack of its own. The reason why it would be so valuable, however, is that all Zerg on creep in a wide radius around it, since they are closer to the one giving their commands, are able to move and attack much faster and regenerate their health very quickly. This would go along with the advanced Creep Colony and the Overlord creep growing abilities, as this could make a creep rush much more valuable since a Cerebrate could move closer and closer to the enemy's base. The Cerebrate would be available with an Evolution Chamber and Lair, but its abilities (detailed below), would be researched separately at the Hive.
The Cerebrate would also have three abilities; the first: Jeepers Creepers (j/k, having trouble thinking of a good name, but maybe just Creepers). The creep directly surrounding the Cerebrate in a small radius around it begins to form into ten small Zerg units, for now called Creepers. These Creepers would be similar to the Broodling, but would have 20 health and do around 6 damage. The special thing about the Creepers is that upon their death, they would create a small patch of creep. They would have one minute life spans, so they would ideally be spawned with your Cerebrate right next to your target, or to create a path to that enemy by creating a creep path. This wouldn't have too high an energy cost or cooldown.
The second ability would make all creep the Cerebrate is attached to become poisonous to enemy biological units for one to two minutes. The creep would gain a slight chartreuse tint to it. This would be incredibly powerful so it would have to have a very hefty energy cost/cooldown. It would mostly be used for defensive purposes, but could also keep enemies tucked in their base while you brought your forces up to assault them, buying you time to prepare a heavy attack.
The third and final ability would be for the Cerebrate to evolve into an Overmind. This would cost a very large amount of resources and be basically as high tier as something can be. As an Overmind, the Cerebrate loses its ability to move, but all creep attached to it give units on them the "aura" bonuses that the Cerebrate gave before. Also, the Overmind loses its ability to cast the Cerebrate's spells. However, the Overmind constantly spawns Frenzied Creepers with minute long life spans, 40 health, and 7 damage. Each Frenzied Creeper becomes two normal Creepers upon death. They would have spawn times similar to the larvae at a Hatchery. This way not only are you always spawning more free units, you're also always getting units that can increase the size of your creep so that its added bonuses can reach your army and stop enemies from building on it.

 

I like the hydra evolutions, but the cerebrate and overmind seem a bit unpractical for me. I'm guessing that they cost a real lot of money, about 300-400 for cerebrate and even more to upgrade to overmind. If someone had enough money and time to make those, they' 1. spent money on nothing else and teched straight to cerebrates. 2. are playing againts a noob and are toying with them. 3. Have done everything else they could do and are just letting the game drag on for fun, which is the same as toying with the opponent. My guess is that it'll become obsolete like the Infested Terrans, and they'll be a novelty item.

 

I generally don't like addition of very super and high tech units, they generally see very little use in 90+% of actual games. I much rather have more medium-tech(late tier 1 to tier 2) units, so that the player is presented with more numerous and diverse branches of tech paths and choices.

Having one or two extremely powerful options at end game is quite pointless. While having MANY only moderately effective yet situationally viable options allow players the freedom of frequently switch up their strategy. And all these individually so-so options in fact come together to provide such dynamics, adaptability, and unpredictability, that as a whole they are far superior to any one power yet predictable option which will not be very accessible in real games anyway.

I want tech paths and options for Zerg in SC2 from Blizzard. MAD tech paths. An obscene number of tech paths. I want such an abundance of tier 1 and tier 2 tech options, that I will float like a butterfly and sting like a bee just from my unpredictable and ever changing tech builds.

 

Then there won't be enough room for all the buttons.

 

@Remy: I honestly gotta say i agree with you. After all, the Swarm is all about greater numbers of weak and moderate units rather than fewer numbers of strong units.

EDIT: Also, in addition to my "Creep-Bond" suggestion (see page 1, second post) i'd like to suggest what i call "The Three OV Roles". Essentially, it's three types of Overlords having three different uses. It begins with Overlord nr1, the "Normal OV" which like it's predecessor in SC1 produces food for the Zerg.

Late early-game/early mid-game, the player is presented with an upgrade to the OV called the "Carrier OV", which is a transport. Now, for the measly price of around 75 minerals and 50 gas, normal OV's could morph into "Carrier OV's", gain a bit of health, some armor and of course, the ability to carry Zerg.

Then, in early late-game, the player is presented with the third option, the "Response-enhancing OV", which does exactly what the overlords are described as doing - controlling the Zerg. For a moderate mineral price and a high gas price, the normal OV may morph into the "Response-enhancing OV", which when present near Zerg units, enhance them, making them more responsive = faster, increasing attack/movement speed by 5-10-20%, depending on what is deemed fairly non-overpowered. (i know someone mentioned this earlier, kudos to you)
This i think is reasonable, since the Zerg is all about masses of small units. Having a "buffer" to increase the effectiveness of those masses i think is a powerful addition to the Swarm rather than some bulky, superunit that goes down in 2 secs because of a lil summat summat called focus-fire.

 

I like the overlord idea.  I think you're basically saying keep the old ovie just the way it was, but add a new tier 3 unit, however all of this is presented as an overlord package in 3 separate stages of evolution/mutation.

You would still have to allow the sight range upgrade and the movement speed upgrade at lair.  But I think perhaps it would be better if everything is kept the same up until tier 2 then have the response-enhancing ovie as the only mutation at tier 3.

The reason is that the old way converts all of your overlords to transports universally, one research and all can transport.  The carrier ovie evolution adding HP and armor would be good in itself, however every ovie is a transport concept is a strength of Zerg.  For the enemy, every ovie they see could be a transport and could potentially be carrying troops, but since they are all that way they don't know which ones.

Having cheap and readily available transport decoys is a strength that's unique to the Zerg.  It is virtually impossible to distinguish the real from the fake because they are all real.  The carrier ovie evolution would allow each transport to become more resilient but at the same time it gives the enemy a way to pickout the transports, and in turn focus fire on them when in sight.  It is also more troublesome and overall costly to upgrade individual ovies, as well as less flexible.

But selective transport upgrade perhaps could still work, although I still think it will be less unique for Zerg.

The RE-ovie idea is pretty sweet.  The attack speed boost would need to be very small, as even a small increase in attack speed is tremendous when it's your swarm.  But even if both the attack speed and movement speed bonuses were kept at a minimum, I believe it will still be highly effective and worthwile.  All of your units will be able to close in faster and have increased chance of reaching their targets.  Attacking faster will allow the individually weak Zerg units to get in more hits before they meet quick deaths.  On top of that, everything combined goes incredibly well with the Zerg's overall swarming theme and the feel of frenzied murderous creatures, it's totally awsome.  But even better, adds yet another very unique mechanic to the Zerg.

I think as balance measures, the RE-ovie would have to have only small increase in HP over standard ovie while being relatively expensive to upgrade.  The RE-ovie would need to have reasonably low HP so it's possible for opponents to hunt it down and kill it with relative ease.  The cost to evolve each RE-ovie would have to be quite expensive so you can't just build a good number of them to compensate for your opponents hunting them down.  The only reason to need more than one would be to provide additional AoE anyway.

Overall, I love the idea SirBaron.  I'm sorry if some of it sounds like nitpicking, but it's serious feedback on my part.  Anyone putting ideas would love nothing more than serious feedback, amirite?  :