Ideas for new Zerg Mechanics. (Post your theories and ideas)

good idea sir baron, i don't think the defiler pheromone should stack though, +3 damage for lings, hydras and mutas are too much.

 

I loved the Guardian, but if he must get replaced
I would like him to look the Babylon 5 shadow starship

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadows_(Babylon_5)

The guardian always reminded me of him, and i think visually would look kick ass

The ship doesn't shoot out spores, just lasers, which might be hard
for the ZERG to do. Unless you claims it taps into the Overmind or Dark Pschye enegy (such as the Dark Templar)

 

wooooooaaa!! Phermones?? now thats something my simple mind didnt thinked of... that was a nice idea WuHt and SirBaron... now thats sumthing we could say that originated from the zerg, but maybe we can expect more coz 10 years of perfecting evolution resulting to production of these so called phermones isnt just enough.. well we'll just have to see what blizz holds for the zerg fanatics ^_^

 

SirBaron - I think that your pheromone idea is great. However, I don't necessarily think that the bonuses should stack when you have more than one Overlord/Defiler/Queen or whatever - it may create too much of a bonus.

 

Very nice ideas SirBaron.

 

Hmm interesting. I like it

 

I've heard that some of you argue that Zerg has no cloaked units. While burrowed essentially is cloaking, it's stationary, and as Remy stated before, it's not true cloaking.

That's exactly what my next suggestion will (hopefully) correct:

EDIT: Bold indicates a change

Name: Zerg Shadow
Tier: Late Tier 1
Type of Attack: Melee
Health: Low (Around 50-70)
Energy: 200
Base Damage: any proper fixed number between 9 and 12
Armor: No natural armor
Cost: 75 minerals
Speed: Moderate (Slightly slower than Zergling with speed upgrade)
Cooldown: Fast (Slightly faster than Zergling without cooldown speed upgrade)
Special Abilities:
Environmental Blend (Basic ability): When standing still, the Shadows blend into the environment and become invisible.
Chameleon Skin (Cost: 100 mineral, 100 gas, researched from "Shadow Lair"): Allows the Shadow to remain invisible while walking at the cost of 1 energy per second.

EDIT: Considering in which direction the suggestion is going (speedy Hit n Run glasscannon) i'm thinking about giving it the ability to leap up and down cliffs. Let me know what you think about it.

 

@ SirBaron

I really like you pheromone ideas. It's totally something that the zerg would have/use. However, I'm not to much of a fan of the Zerg Shadow as it's far to similar to the Dark Templar. It would be great if the zerg had a chameleon unit, but I think it needs to be differentiated more from the Dark Templar.

 

an idea for rhe new infested terran, a queen wich lays eggs from wich infested terran come if the enemy comes to close, something like spider mine, and they ditched that

 

hey guys if there is day and night how will zerg see. protos glow so should have all around smaller raidus of sight terran have lights so should have more sight then protos in the front but less every were else leaveing them open to ambush. so what do you guys think zerg should have less sight all around but have upgrades to make them see normal and then maybe even better at night so first they're nurfed but become more power late game.

 

zerg might see in a different spectrum.
protoss do that too most likely.
and there are organic sources of light (angler fish for example)

 

SirBaron wrote:
Chameleon Skin (Cost: 100 mineral, 100 gas, researched from "Shadow Lair"): Allows the Shadow to remain invisible while walking at the cost of 1 energy per second.
---
Chameleon skin is a great idea to make zerg cloaked... excellent!

 

Hmmm... I have one that's sort of out there, but it might be kind of interesting.

So what about a "barricade" ability? I think we all might notice by now that Blizzard sort of has this way with overlapping certain spells/abilities from one game to another. "Blink" for example is used by the Warren hero in WC3 and that got carried over to the Stalkers.

How bout giving something to the Zerg that's equivalent to the Necromancer's "Bone Wall?" So it's almost like an area effect Defensive Matrix. It can be cast by a defiler-like unit, but basically tier 3, and it creates a circular barricade of, I dunno... Zergy matter, around the casting unit and whichever other units within the immediate vicinity. Now, as far as damage goes, I do realize that at least in SC1, units can shoot over things, so nothing can really "block" anything. This only limits melee attackers. So it'd be great for a the caster and a group of hydras to go up against zerglings, zealots, etc. I give it about 200 damage and 150 mana to cast.

 

I agree with Venado, very cool idea from SirBaron on the Zerg Shadow.  Not just that it gives the Zerg a true cloaked unit, but how it is "chameleon skin" and everything, very creative and not over the top.

But I think it needs a little bit of tweaking.  Based on how things used to work in SC1(and my guess, also how it would be it in SC2), cloak strats aren't available until tier 2.  Only Zerg burrow is tier 1, but that really isn't the same as DT or lurker in that it can't be used as a tech rush in the same sense.  So I think instead of late tier 1, it should be tier 2.  At least the chameleon skin upgrade should be tier 2.  If you make it buildable at tier 1 and the research at Lair, that would still make it the fastest cloak strat tech rush in the game, faster than lurker and DT rushes, which I think is perhaps still a little too fast.

I also think terrain crossing would be a big no-no.  I noticed that a lot of people want cliff jumping/scaling for everything now, but I don't think it would work for the Zerg Shadow.  Up to 12 damage per hit with a cooldown of 7(faster than ling cooldown but slower than crackling would put it at 7) is pretty crazy damage output for a cloaked unit.  With cliff jumping, I think even with some stationary detectors around, you could still do a way too much damage constantly hitting from different angles while easily fleeing from most pursuing units.  I think the Shadow would be good enough without the terrain crossing ability.

I think 12 damage per hit is pretty good, but I think a cooldown of 7 is a bit too fast.  I think a cooldown of around 10~15 would be adequate.  Hydra/marine cooldown is 15 and a stimmed firebat is 11 for reference.  12 damage over a cooldown of 10 would give it similar damage per cooldown as the DT(based on SC1), 12 per hit over 9 cool would make it EXACTLY the same as DT.  However, based on your suggested cost for the unit I assume you have it as a 1 food unit in mind.  So with that in mind, a Shadow doing 12 over 10 would roughly double a DT's 'damage per cooldown per food.'  So I think it should be closer to 15 than 10 for cooldown to make it balanced.  It could have much better D/C/F than the DT because of lower HP and base armor, but I think double is a bit much.

My last suggestion is that, I think as a tech unit, the Zerg Shadow should have a gas cost.  It doesn't really make sense for it to be cheaper than the hydra which is 75/25.  I think it should cost about 50~75 gas at least, leaning to the high side if you want to keep the mineral cost as low as 75.

SirBaron, you know I only go on rambling this much about something in this thread when it's an idea that I really like a lot.  So I'm gonna save both of us the trouble of the formalities on how I mean no offense in any way yada yada yada.  As I'm sure you know that much about me already.  I must say, overall an excellent idea, I really like it.  Hope my feedback helps.

@ ArchLimit, I don't think it would benefit the Zerg, especially at tier 3.  That sounds more like something for Terran.  Zerg out of all races, need to get in the face of the enemy with ground units.  Even with hydras, you get outranged by almost everything else that's not melee.  Not sure about immortals in SC2 but goons out ranged hydras 6 to 5, and stalkers at least have blink.  I think colossus might possibly out range hydras as well, and siege tank is a given, even in tank mode.  So I think it would really hinder Zerg more than help it, giving Terran and Toss free shots at Zerg armies while Zerg is blocked in.  That's what I think anyway, just my opinion on it.

 

Hmmm... y'know what, I think u'r right. It's funny how I mentioned blink but not how it would work so well against my idea that stemmed from it, hehe. I remember back int he day, I did this thing where I'd be invading a base, and when my hydras' health would be very low, I'd immediately morph them all into lurkers. While in that egg state, they're armor is ridiculous and even for that precious 2-5 seconds where the enemy is concentrating firepower on those eggs and didn't have enough time to redirect to more important enemies, sometimes it turned the tide for me.

I figured there might just be some mechanism that could be more for that role/purpose. But yea, the barricade idea probably doesn't quite cut it. Thanks for the feedback

 

@ Archlimit , the idea is a bit rough, although plausible. I agree with Remy that it would simply hinder the Zerg. I disagree by saying that it could be implemented. There are always two sides to a unit. Its advantages and disadvantages. Could it be employed successfully by a skilled Zerg player? Yes. It could be used as a defensive structure, or it could be used to separate melee units from ranged (i.e. protect hydras but leave the lings and lurks outside, etc.)
However, I'd rather it not be implemented. I prefer the Zerg's standard approach of "overwhelm and overpower." This type of defensive structure doesn't fit my theme of the Zerg.

As to the Chameleon, it feels a little Protossy to me, but someone had suggested earlier in the thread that it could only blend in while standing still. This sounds interesting to me. It makes sense because of course the Zerg don't have the "technology" to make a unit go unnoticed unless it has a physical aspect such as burrowing (you can't see it because its physically hard, not because you're being tricked by tech). The Chameleon aspect of the Shadow perfectly fits that standard. But being cloaked while moving does not. However, it would be useful for stationary scouting, and definitely for allowing armies to pass and then harassing their rearguard ( or proceeding on to their workers).

It could have a later-game upgrade but I don't think it really needs one. Perhaps it could just be a weaker attack unit and have ATA and GTA capabilities. Remy would really know more about the balancing.

I just feel that if it has a "tech" to become a cloaked unit, it won't fit Zerg.

 

The problem with keeping the Zerg Shadow's Chameleon Skin only effective when stationary is that it will then be not much different from the existing Zerg burrow. Zerg burrow would actually be far superior because it's a relatively cheap 100/100 teir 1 upgrade available at hatch that effects all of your ground units universally, with the exception of the ultralisk. You wouldn't need to get a specific unit just for the same thing that you could already do with just about all of your ground units, so in that case there would be little reason for adding such a unit or mechanic.

The main reason which I really liked the whole idea and why I think SirBaron even came up with it in the first place, is due to the Zerg's lack of a true-cloak unit. I've suggested my "Geolisk" idea(which I've always had since early BW days) elsewhere for the same reason. It was basically the opposite of a lurker, a unit that could tunnel(burrowed movement) but only attack after unburrowing, for balance reasons. I think SirBaron's idea could still work even though it's perma-cloak based on energy.

I also think the Chameleon Skin fits Zerg well enough because it's a means of natural camouflage, which we can already witness a great many example of even in nature today. Camouflage is a lesson we learned from nature afterall, seems to me that it makes sense for Zerg to assimilate such a thing. Most hunts in nature are about concealed movement, element of surprise, striking quickly, finishing quickly, and doing everything with great efficiency. Very rarely, if any at all, is it about charging head-on from the front and overpowering the prey with brute force. I would think that it makes good sense for Zerg to incorporate this into at least a small portion of what they are.

 

Great feedback everyone. Here's the polished version (don't forget to provide more feedback should that be needed):

EDIT: CHANGED

Name: Zerg Shadow
Tier: Early Tier 2
Type of Attack: Melee
Health: 55
Energy: 200
Base Damage: 12
Armor: 0 natural
Cost: 75 minerals, 50 Gas (Now it's a bit higher than Hydra, but still quite cheap - which was my original purpose of the low cost)
Speed: Fast
Cooldown: 13
Special Abilities:
Blend (Basic ability - Active): At no Energy cost, the Shadow may enter a state of invisibility that severly hampers it's movement speed (From Fast to Very Slow). Also, should the Shadow attack, the invisibility will be broken. (5/10 sec cooldown?)
Chameleon Skin (Active) (Cost: 150 mineral, 150 gas, researched from "Shadow Lair (Tier2 Structure, prerequisite: Lair)" Lair Required): Allows the Shadow to enter a complete form of invisibility without speed penalties that does not break at attack, however at the cost of 1 energy per second.

EDIT: So i gave it some thought. Now, Blend allows for a sort of Perma-cloak, which reduces their speed to about non-upgraded Ovie speed as well as the weakness of it breaking on attack, leaving them vulnerable to attack for a few seconds. Gimme your thoughts on it, please.

 

See, I like that idea.

Remy, I would absolutely be for your idea of a "true cloak" unit if it fit the "chameleon" ability that he's talking about. But in nature, camoflauge is based just as much on lack of movement as it is on colors and patterns. You can see something if it moves against its background even if it is colored similarly.

I like this "polished" ability in that it relies on blending into the environment (I'm thinkin this should take a little time, maybe 1-3 seconds of standing still) and then can move a short distance while still cloaked. Sounds good to me!

I mean, Zerg is already terrifying enough in its numbers. A cloaked unit that can't necessarily always move cloaked is still scary in that they'll be coming from behind you, a classic Zerg strategy. Can't win without the pincer

 

The fact that a Zerg colony is a living organism makes me think a building salvage ability would make more sense for them than it does for the Terrans. I could definitely imagination the Zerg having the genetic prowess to completely reabsorb or digest their own materials and it would fit nicely with the Zerg's lore I think.