Hydralisk a 1.5 Tier unit.

The hydralisk evolving into a roach sounds interesting. Though I imagine the textures and model itself will look very different to accommodate a hydra evolution. I don't really care much for lurkers, if they are still in cool if not cool. At this point in starcraft 2's development I have got over the phase of coming up with ideas for my own fun, right now my attitude is just whatever happens, happens, so I can't really contemplate how removing the lurker will effect the strategies of the zerg and what units and strategies can help the zerg make up for this (I am more interested in the story of starcraft 2 anyways =P).

And about the hydralisk at tier 2, I don't know for sure but I think it is necessary for the zerg like the other races to have at least one ranged unit that can attack air in tier 1 otherwise I can see zerg players quickly teching to tier 2 to get air or at least anti-air in the worry that one or more opponent(s) is getting air quickly themselves. So yes, hydralisk at tier 1.5 is good ^_^

 

A stupid question : what's a 1.5 tier unit ?

Don't call me noob please ....

 

Well maybe not remove it completely, but if Hydra was tier 2 and Lurker 2.5 or 3, even if Hydra is back on 1.5, leave the lurker on the later tier, making them a end game unit. This will leave a good place for Ling/Hydra/Roach/muta, to shine in normal game. Then later games threat would be Infestors, Ultra, Guardian, Lurkers.

Because people that are good with Lurkers should not be punished because the Lurker is too strong in Zerg race, just move unit up tiers so they can fit their strenght.

 

Tier 1.5, I think thats between 1 and 2... Maybe. Like between getting a spawning pool and a lair. Whats between there? A Hydralisk Den!

 

I completely agree with VodkaChill there. I don't see why it should be removed. It's definitely a unique unit and an icon to the Zerg, but on top of that, they kinda need it. Both other teams have several ways to counter swarms and other than the Lurker, they only really have the Baneling which is a pretty hectic unit to rely on for dealing with swarms and the like.

 

Tier 1.5 is any tech between the Spawn Pool and the Lair.

Basically the Spawn Pool signals tier 1 and then any tech buildings after that but before the Lair is considered 1.5. So the Hydralisk Den in SC1 requires the Spawn Pool but not the Lair, so the Hydralisk is available in tier 1.5.

I see exactly why the Lurker should be removed. It's old, and it clearly doesn't fit in the Zerg chain in its current state. The Lurker, for all practical purposes, is a damage machine. The Zergling is meant to be the meat shield for that Lurker, but the Lurker also brings a defensive nature to Zerg tier 2 attacks.

StarCraft 2 is also supposed to be focusing on micromanagement and the Lurker doesn't further that goal. The Baneling is clearly the perfect splash damage answer for tier 1 and 2, but won't cut it in Tier 3. That's why they moved the Lurker to tier 3.

Then they had the Roach which is basically in all ways, shapes, and forms, better than the Hydralisk up until late tier 2 when air becomes a bigger factor. I mean, come on, you can get a Mutalisk or Hydralisk at the same time? That's ridiculous.

The Roach has clearly pushed the Hydralisk to its current stage. So this latest news that the Hydralisk has been moved down a tier clearly tells me that the Roach has also been moved, probably to tier 3 or as a mutation of the Hydralisk. It's the next logical step.

The Lurker has to move to tier 3 because of the Baneling (the way it should be) but I'm saying that because of the attack style of the unit it's almost completely useless at tier 3 except to stop tier 1 units like the Zealot and Marine, etc. Just because it has an armor bonus does not mean it's going to be useful against armor if it can't get in range offensively.

So in conclusion there are better options for the Zerg than the Lurker at tier 3. Solution? Create a new, more effective tier 3 unit and remove the Lurker.

My last concern is that if the Roach becomes a mutation of the Hydralisk and utilizes the regeneration, the Roach is going to overlap the Ultralisk (which IMO it is already doing). The Ultralisk costs 400 gas (outrageous) and the Roach only 50. You could build 8 roaches for one Ultralisk (with a little more minerals). That's almost 1200 HP. Far better than the 600 you'll get from the Ultralisk, and not only that, they regenerate an insane amount.

Therefore the Roach is a much better "damage tank" than the Ultralisk cost for cost. So... there's another dilemma. Personally I think the Ultralisk needs a change as well. Perhaps keep the unit but drastically change its abilities. Just because it looks cool doesn't mean the Zerg need it.

Also, the more and more I look at the Zerg and then go back and look at the original SC1 trailers with Zerg in it, I say "WTF" because in the trailers the Zerg are stick-like insectoids and here they are all balls of pus. I just don't get the concept work.

 

im posting now because i believe some people will be / are like "when is he going to fight for his beloved Lurkers?"

so here i am, but im not going to argue about what Jon said and i will give several reasons.

1. the Zerg race is the one that have the least amount of units that does not seem like it came from SC, about 3 or so( i will have a list at the end of this). yet they are supposed to be a race that evolves at a rapid rate, this is 4 years after SC:BW you would expect that they would be one of the most changed race.

2. i dont feel like arguing about if the Lurker should stay in the game or not( :shock: ), but i will say that the Zerg needs a unit that does splash without killing themself, and dont you go say Ultralisk.

3. Jon and Nik has played the game most recently and i can think how they could imagine playing the game now with these new changes and tell me how different the Zerg gameplay would be compared to SC.

4.in order for the Lurker to stay i think it would need some sort of improvements, so far they have never had any, and at a late Tier (if they stayed at Tier 3) they will need something to make them worth while.

5. i would have argue if Jon was dissing them, but he wasnt, he game them credit, but also said that it might be better to take them out for something else.

end of reasons, tho it hurt my heart to give some of these reasons.

________________________________________________________________________
Lists of new or improved units. for some units i will give reason for them to be in this list others i wont because it will be taken for granted about what is new about the unit. those that have an * is a unit that i think affects the race more than other on how it will be played. those that have a ^ is a unit that is similar or is from SC1

Protoss

Zealot^ (because of Charge)
Stalker^* (because of Blink)
Immortal*
Nullifier*
Colossus*
Phase Prism^ (because of its ability to become a pylon)
Phoenix*
Warp Ray*
Mothership*

Protoss = 9 new or improved units, 7 of these i think will affect the race more. 2 of these i think are similar or is from SC1

Terran

Marine^(because of health upgrade)
Reaper*
Ghost^(new abilities)
Marauder*
Jackal^*
Thor^
Medivac^*
Nomad*
Banshee*
Viking*

Terran = 10 new or improved units, 7 of these i think will affect the race more, 5 of these i think are similar or is from SC1

Zerg

Overlord^ (new abilities)
Overseer^*
Banelings*
Roach^*
Changeling
Infestor^ (able to move underground)
Infested Marine^ (new role in battle, im still thinking if i should even count this 'unit' as it only last for a short time like a Broodling)
Ultralisk^ (has splash)
Swarm Guardian^ (makes Broodlings)
Corruptor*
Nydus Worm^ (again thinking if i should put this in because all it is now is a improve building rather than a unit) im not putting an * because i think of this 'unit' as a building
Queen* (new role)

Zerg = 9-12 new or improved units, 5 of these i think will affect the race more, 8 of these i think are similar or is from SC1

please note that each race will only have about 13 units at least and 15 units total (13 for Terran and 15 for Protoss and Zerg thats counting workers and the Infested Marine for the Zerg but not the Broodling or Changeling)

i dont care if you want to argue about my list or not.

to counter my thinking a little about the zerg have not as many units that i think are not similar to SC, it could be that the zerg are a evolution race that Blizzard decided not to give them as many new units, and give us lots of evolution in the old units.

 

Lurkers are old? They were introduced in BroodWar. Out of all the returning units, they're the newest. About fitting the Zerg chain, I beg to differ. They're extremely powerful but fragile, yet, just like the Zergling and Roach, it has another way to overcome its fragility apart from copious amounts of health. Zerglings are swarmed, Roaches have regeneration and Lurkers live underground, effectively cloaked. Despite the Zerg being extremely offensively based, they still need some adequate defence and despite StarCraft2 being more focused on micromanagement, they still need some units that aren't. The Lurker is great for this Zerg defence due to the fact that it's not very micro-manageable. It provides rock-solid, maintenance-free defence, allowing the Zerg players to focus on offence and microing the rest of their already numerous army.

I definitely wouldn't consider the Roach as being better than the Hydralisk, minus the Anti-Air. Roaches are fragile. They can take a lot of damage, but they're fragile, especially when up against Terran, and more specifically, Siege Tanks. Siege Tanks one-shot Roaches and I've never seen a Terran base without Siege Tanks. Hydralisks, although they have less max health than Roaches, don't, because they aren't Armoured. They also have better range and deal more damage. Also, I don't see why getting Hydralisks and Mutalisks at tier 2 is so ridiculous.

I definitely don't believe that Banelings will be able to take over what the Lurker accomplished and I doubt they'd be half as effective. They're feeble and cost a lot of resources per mutation, especially when considering they may overlap and can easily be shot down, most notably, Larvae. It would take so many Banelings to accomplish what a single Lurker could accomplish when defending a base. Not only did the Lurker have the element of surprise, but it didn't expend about a hundred minerals, a hundred gas and a Larvae per two attacks.

About the Roach mutating from the Hydralisk, I'm against it. And so what if an Ultralisk's worth of Roaches have more health than an Ultralisk? It's the same with Zerglings, but you wouldn't be caught using them as a tank. Also, in large scale battles the Roaches regeneration rate will basically be nullified. They only make use of their regeneration rate if they're damaged for long enough for it to kick in, and with a little focused fire from your opponent, they won't have that time.

 

I'm against the hydralisk being moved down to the 1.5 tier-
If i remember correctly to be able to accomodate the anti air needed that the hydralisk provided in SC1, they were going to allow you to have corruptors earlier (thus they would have to be cheaper and more swarmable), as well as having the infestor at a slightly earlier tier (with respect to the defilier). I dont want to be playing a rehashed SC1, and moving the hydralisk down basically makes the zerg early gameplay identical to SC1, which im against. I would much rather have a sort of swarmy air unit and a caster unit available sooner than a hydralisk, since the early hydralisk was experienced in SC1.

I'd be curious to see how potent the higher tiered hydra would be, because it was stated that they would have higher damage outputs against buildings (yes banelings damage buildings well, but imagine the two working in sync).

I fear blizzard is just reverting back to what was tried and true in SC1 instead of creating a new gameplay feel with respect to the zerg. First they reverted back to the old upgrade system, now this : /

 

Well, just to clear a couple of things up...

1. The Hydralisk costs 100/100, and then the Lurker costs 75/150, so you have to calculate that each Lurker costs you 175/250 to create. Then each Zergling costs 25 minerals and the Baneling mutation costs only 25/50. So each Baneling costs you 50/50. Compare that to the Lurker. You can create 5-6 Banelings for every one Lurker. I would hands down choose the Banelings.

2. The Hydralisk was NOT strong enough to warrant its cost or its tier 3 placement. Of course that's probably due to the fact that the units it was facing were absolutely ridiculously strong (*cough* Battlecruiser).

3. The Lurker comes so late that it can't even hope to compete with the Baneling for the job of combating early tiers. It's only use is to annihilate late-tiered use of early tier units like Zealots and Zerglings. Oh, and it has a useless armored bonus that I can't figure out. How do you get a Lurker in range of tanks?

4. I don't think bringing the Hydra back to tier 1.5 is "reverting to SC1 tactics." The Hydralisk SHOULD be at that position because it is core to the race. Just create some more fun mechanics with its mutations, i.e. the Roach. Heck, I'm even suggesting they improve the Ultralisk or cut it as well as the Lurker. How much more radical can you get?

 

1. Firstly, I'd say that's a fault of their stats and not of their position in the tech tree or role in the Zerg Swarm. Banelings are basically tweaked Infested Terran and seeing that the thought of using Infested Terran over Lurkers in StarCraft1 is just plain ludicrous, then it's all dependant on their stats. It doesn't mean the Lurker is old, or outdated, or ineffective, it just means that they haven't properly balanced them yet. Not to mention that Banelings only get a chance at a single attack, so every two Baneling attacks cost a hundred minerals and a hundred gas, as well as a Larvae, when Lurkers can go on indefinitely, and not to mention they can do so passively. In an offensive, swarming army, you shouldn't want to use suicidal units that tax your production line in order to defend your base. A lasting and maintenance-free unit would be a much better choice.

2. That's all to do with their final stats. If a tier 2 or 3 unit isn't powerful enough, moving it down isn't the only option. These stats definitely haven't been finalised yet. If it isn't strong enough to warrant its cost at tier 3, then make it cheaper or stronger. Moving it down isn't the only solution.

3. Why would the Lurker have to compete to be the main combatant for early tiers? It didn't, and wasn't, in StarCraft1, so why would it have to now? Keep Banelings for countering early units, but then bring the Lurker in for some solid ground defence.

4. It's only core to the race if it's made to be core to the race. It doesn't have to be. Blizzard even cut some of the StarCraft1 units that were core to their race, so why would they be required to keep the Hydralisk at tier 1.5?

 

I'd be interested to see a later tiered unit that can be swarmable (hydralisk tier 3 with cheaper cost), it would definitely maintain the "en masse" feel of the zerg. late game i really can't see the roach being useful, what with the stronger attacks of higher tiered units practically negating its useful regenerative properties. If the hydralisk is available lower, the roach will be obsolete.

I completely agree with itzahexgor over the issue of the lurker. less micromanagement of utilzation versus the baneling in regards to defence and closing off choke points.

 

@ Itza,

I won't argue points one and two because they're due to balance, but I will go after you on thre and four .

3. The Lurker has to compete because in SCBW it was a viable option to tech quickly to tier 2 in order to have Lurkers and counter a large number of tier one units, and that option is no longer available since the Lurker is SO high up the tiers. The ONLY viable option ATM is the Baneling.

4. The Hydralisk doesn't have to be the "core" unit of the Zerg, but something does. A major part of the Zerg theme in SCBW was mutations and there's only a few added in SC2 and none of them are strategically placed. I was SUGGESTING that the Hydralisk be moved back to serve this function because it would make better strategic sense if you had this unit at tier 1.5 and then branched off to the types of units we're seeing, like the Roach or Lurker, instead of having two completely separate tech trees... Especially when the Terran only have one, as do the Protoss.

 

The StarCraft1 Lurker may have been there to counter large numbers but the Lurker in StarCraft2 won't necessarily be the same. In fact, due to the bonus against Armoured units they've given it, I'd say they're not meant to counter those units any more but instead act as a more specialised defence for later units like Thors, Colossi, etc, hence its late arrival. The Baneling may be the most effective anti-tier 1 unit at the moment, but that doesn't mean the Lurker should be cut as it's obviously not designed for that same role.

I don't agree that the new mutations aren't strategically placed. You said yourself that the Baneling is an extremely effective tier 1 counter, the Lurker's obviously taken a new turn which would make it better suited for a later tier, the Swarm Guardian comes in at the same stage as in StarCraft1 so that's no different, and the Queen mutates at every stage of the Hive.

What do you mean by two separate tech trees? The Zerg are structured basically the same way as the Terran and Protoss, with each unit requiring a new building, only instead of groups being built in different buildings, they're all grouped in the one building.

 

Okay, Itza, I don't think you're correctly researching this stuff or watching the gameplay videos...

The Lurker is NOT taking a new turn and is NOT suited for a better tier. It's the same damn unit at a later tier. The armored bonus does nothing to help its effectiveness ATM. You cannot take what was previously a tier 2 unit and put it in tier 3, slap on a bonus, and say voila!

It's pretty obvious that Blizzard now realizes it since they moved the Hydralisk back down. It was a bad idea in the first place. You had a limited range ground only unit that had no truly offensive attack and it was placed in a tier where it was competing with air units and long-range siege units like the Thor and the Banshee. Where is the effectiveness? The only use it had was against smaller, tier 1 units, just like the Lurker in SC1.

When did you ever see an enemy coming at you with Siege Tanks or Battlecruisers and say, "Oh, I need to tech to the Lurker."

Also, as far as the mutations, there is only two that have anything to do with actual units. The first is the Baneling mutation which is great and belongs exactly where it is. The other is the Mutant Larva which is another great mechanic.

But neither of these match the strategic importance of the Hydralisk morphing to a Lurker. Essentially you had a powerful ranged infantry and anti-air unit that could readily and cheaply convert to an anti-infantry unit. Where's there a better combination? No such combination exists at the critical turning point of tier 2 for the Zerg. I think it would be possible to leave the Hydralisk at tier 1 and use the Roach as the replacement mutation for the Lurker at tier 2. Of course, that Roach would have to be a beefed-up version, but it would serve more as a damage tank, which it is turning into already.

Lastly, the Zerg has two tech trees where the Protoss and Terran have only one. Look at Zerg:

Zergling
Roach(Group 1)
Baneling(Group 1)
Mutalisk (Group 2)
Hydralisk (Group 2

Basically you have to choose which direction you're going with the Hydralisk or Mutalisk because you can tech them at the same time. It's not so much a problem because the Hydralisk has been moved, but hopefully you see my point. In SCBW because of the separation of the tech buildings between tiers, (Spawn Pool tier 1, Hydra Den 1.5, Spire 2, etc) that you didn't have to simultaneously tech.

Now you look at the Protoss:

Zealot (Tier 1)
Nullifier (Tier 1)
Stalker (Tier 2)
Immortal (Tier 2)
High Templar
Archon

They really only have one tech tree. You can CHOOSE which direction you want to go by making a choice as to unit usability, but you can have all units available by following that single tech tree until you get to tier 3 where the variance of tech requires a choice.

That's not so with Zerg ATM. Because of the moved Hydralisk Den to tier 2 it's now available at the same time as the Spire instead of successively like it was in SCBW and the way the Protoss still are. They tried to make up for this by making the Corruptor available right off the bat from the Lair without the Spire but with its weakened state that plan didn't work out.

Do you see my point now?

 

I think you both (jon and itza) are making pretty good points here.

I have a few suggestions, tell me what you think =D . . .

OPTION A: Remove the roach and the ultralisk and come up with some new unit that is a balance between the two with high regeneration, moderate health and size (in between a roach and an ultralisk), somewhat moderate massability (more then an ultralisks, but less then roaches), tier 3, good speed, and a somewhat powerful melee attack. Good for drawing fire away from your real damage inflicters.

-----OR-----

OPTION B: Keep the roach but remove the ultralisk, and have an upgrade that unlocks an evolution aspect for the roach, into something similar like an ultralisk in respect to size, and health. This may make the roach obsolete around late games so to hopefully prevent that I propose the organic carapace upgrade (faster life regeneration) can only be equipped to roaches or better equips the roach, and this ultralisk-like unit has more expense, and of coarse more hp.

As for the lurker, and hydralisk tier placement issue . . . I say keep the hydralisk at tier 1.5, and remove the lurker entirely and replace it with a new unit that utilizes a different mechanic. One suggestion would be to have this large unit at tier 2 (possibly evolved from a hydra) with a slow but powerful mid ranged splash attack that can only target ground units. Remove the infester's ability to move while burrowed and move it to this unit. One more thing, the unit can move fast while burrowed (without an attack of coarse) but when it is surfaced its slow and vulnerable.

 

How can you say the Lurker hasn't taken a new turn? You said yourself it was the main combatant for tier 1 units in StarCraft1 and now in StarCraft2 it's at tier 3 with a bonus against Armoured units, so how on Earth is it the exact same Lurker? They may not have done it well, and putting it how you said it makes it sound like they're a bunch of 10 year olds, but it is definitely not the same unit it was it StarCraft1. It isn't supposed to be the main combatant for tier 1 units and doesn't need to compete with the Baneling.

If it's true that the Hydralisk won't be effective at tier 2 because of the units it's competing with, then logically once you've gotten to the second tier they'll be useless regardless of where they are. Basically, if the tier 2 Hydralisk was useless at the second tier, then the tier 1 Hydralisk will also be useless by the second tier.

Nice hypothesised situation there, but you'd have to realise it's not like that at all. You opponent would have teched to Stalkers, Colossi, Jackals, Vikings, Marauders, possibly Thors and Roaches, which are all ~tier 2 units, and then you'd tech Lurkers to combat them. Obviously they're still going to have their counters, like Siege Tanks that have a bonus to Armoured unit and Battlecruisers which attack from the skies, but that's no different to any other unit. It's like saying when do you ever see them coming at your base with Phoenixes/Warp Rays/Carriers/Vikings/Banshees/Battlecruisers/Mutalisks/Corrupters and think: "I need to tech Swarm Guardians."

Just because Hydralisks and Lurkers made for a good combo in StarCraft1, it doesn't mean that they have to be of equal or greater importance in StarCraft2. Just look at the Marine and Medic. They Medic's basically been moved to a later tier and is a flyer now, but it still works, so why would it be impossible for the Lurker to also be kept until later. The Marauder's now present to make up for the Medic's absence which allows for such changes to be made with the Medic/Medivac, so why, now that the Baneling's there to make up for the Lurker's absence, can't similar changes be made to the Lurker? It's StarCraft2, not StarCraft1 in 3D so just because the StarCraft1 version of a unit wouldn't work at a later tier, it doesn't mean that the StarCraft2 version wouldn't, especially when considering it's still in alpha.

I still don't follow what you're trying to say with the choice in the tech trees. There're choices in all tech trees, not to mention that the Stalker's tier 1. For Zerg, you'd choose between Mutalisks and Hydralisks at first for tier 2 and for Protoss you'd choose between High Templar and Immortals at first for tier 2. Everything has prerequisites so you've always got to choose what unit you'll build first. If anything, Zerg are lucky because the Mutalisk and Hydralisk can both attack both land and air units, so they can't really make an 'incorrect' choice. With Protoss though, the Immortal and High Templar are very different so could easily tech the 'wrong' way.

EDIT: Lastly, I'm just gonna say this. The Lurker is a unit that the Zerg needs. It's true that Zerg's an extremely offensive and large scale race in a micro-heavy game, but it's because of this they need a simple and sturdy form of defence, which is what the Lurker provides. It's relatively tougher, especially seeing as it's always Burrowed, it's got an area of effect attack, so don't need to take out everything individually like Sunkens, etc, and can just be left to do their own thing. Blizzard may not have them right at the moment but let's face it, that wouldn't be a first for them. All in all, it definitely doesn't mean they're worthless or should be scrapped.

 

Okay, first, let's clear up that factual error there...

The Stalker requires the Cybernetics Core (as does the Immortal) so it is, in fact, a tier 2 unit. As is the Immortal. So your citing of "choosing between the Immortal and High Templar" is incorrect. The Protoss have an entirely linear tech tree up until Tier 3 (Robo Fac, Carriers, etc). Everything else is just a matter of creating the correct production buildings like the Starport, etc. That's not the case with the Zerg. They must simultaneously tech at tier 2 in order to have all options available at tier 3. If this is a conscious choice by Blizzard then it could just be an attempt to balance the tech speeds, but who knows.

In any case, I'm going to try wording the Lurker's changes in a different way. You're saying that the Lurker can be just as effective at tier 3 because of its armor bonus. I say that the only reason it could possibly be effective at tier 3 is because of its cloaked ability, but even then it's not truly "cloaked" unless you call a mine cloaked.

Anyway, let's look at the other races Tier 3 units, shall we?

Protoss: High Templar, Carrier, Warp Ray, Mothership, Fully Upped Immortal, Zealot with Charge

Terran: Battlecruiser, Thor, Banshee, Nomad

Zerg: Lurker, Ultralisk, Infestor, Swarm Guardian

Now, kids, circle the one that doesn't fit?

The Lurker has no use against any of these units, except possible marginal use against the High Templar and... what? the Zealot? Which is a tier 1 unit that is effective at tier 3.

I'm not saying that the Lurker in SCBW was useless at tier 3 in SCBW, or that the Hydralisk was no longer useful at Tier 3. But a lot of that is now due to cost. Anyway, in SCBW you could tech these units earlier and combat units from tier 1 so effectively that you could force your opponent to tech. That's why the unit was so useful. You could continue producing it in order to nullify the effects of tier 1 units at a later tier.

That's all fine and dandy but when you then move that same unit to tier 3, it's still going to serve the same purpose: nullifying tier 1 units like the Zealot, Zergling, and Marine. I've said it before that the Zealot with Charge is one of the most dangerous units in Starcraft 2, and the Lurker would be a great counter for that, but why can't it then be at tier 2??? It just doesn't make sense to be at tier 3.

I think there are better and more creative options for the Zerg than the Lurker staying at tier 3.

 

Yeah sorry about that. Thought the Templar Archives required the Cybernetics core to build. Anyway, yeah. Back on track. I still don't see why having the Hydralisk and Mutalisk at tier 2 is so horrible. At the moment, it doesn't seem like it would be a make-or-break decision. It looked like they were trying to make Zerg more customised anyway what with the idea of having all the individual upgrades and such but obviously it hasn't worked. Not to mention that I for one wouldn't want all the races to have near symmetrical tech trees.

Anyway, that's all a bit tangential. I'm not saying that the Lurker will work at tier 3 because of its Armoured bonus, I'm saying that it's still an effective unit, a must for the Zerg, and that Blizzard's obviously trying to take a new turn with it. Now as you're saying, it supposedly doesn't work at this level, despite it being a different unit with a different role, but does that really mean it should be scrapped? It's an essential unit for the Zerg.

Also, as I said before, your example of teching to Lurkers because you're being attacked by Battlecruisers and the like is a poor one at best. The Swarm Guardian's in the same boat, only being useful against ground targets, and is on the same tier, but in that same example, would you feel you need to tech to Swarm Guardians? Of course not. Would you tech or have already teched to them anyway? Of course. Units don't just have to be useful against other units of the same tier, especially when they come so late in the game and especially when they're the complete opposite of what that unit's supposed to be countering. The current StarCraft2 Lurker would be good against Stalkers, Colossi, Jackals, Vikings, Marauders, possibly Thors and Roaches, which are all tier 2, so you'd actually need to tech Lurkers in order to combat them, just as you'd need to tech any higher tier unit to counter lower tiered units, like Siege Tanks to counter Roaches, Colossi to counter Zerglings, etc, etc. Again you're assuming they'd only be effective against Zealots, High Templar, etc, all being infantry, when Blizzard is blatantly trying to take the Lurker in a different direction.

 

About the Hydralisk I have something to say. And this has nothing to do with the 1.5 thier question.

I am wondering about the attack of the Hydralisk, the way the hydra attacks its enemies.
Well in the official notice of the game we can read "the hydra has a long queue full of spines and that it launches them to the enemy, capable to damage the most bullet proof armor and the air units"

So I wonder why the animation of the hydralisk when it attacks does not show an hydra which is whiping the enemy with its queue. It still stays far from the enemy, but launches its spines to the enemy. We should aso hear a sound of arrows crossing the air