Huge, mystical circle...?

My thoughts exactly, but I decided to just stick with the clutter bit

 

i think its fine, but only if it appears when you have only one unit selected, that way it wont get in the way as much, but can still make it much easier / faster to know the max range of a unit, Blizz. is trying to make it easy to learn, if they did that, then i dont think it would be that much of a problem with everyone, because im thinking of all the time when you only had 1 range unit selected and is in a situation where you have / wanted to attack with it, and its not that often.

 

Please stop giving Blizzard ideas. Sc1 didn't have it, nor need it so Sc2 does not need it. Once you play the game you will learn.

 

That sentence right there can be used for just about everything new in SC2.

Aha! i found the traitor, get him!!!! *tackles Psionicz*

 

If everyone had that belief then every RTS would be a Dune 2 clone with no
-group selection
-right click to attack
-group hotkeys
-waypoints

The "We never had it before so why do we need it now" Mentality only leads to developmental stagnation and you can't expect to have better games if you want to use old technology and interfaces

 

I think the range circle should only appear if you have selected just one type of unit. Then it would be less cluttery. I think these kinds of measurements that are being added to SC2 are good. For instance, I thought it was weird at first when I saw that production/research times are in the game (next to how much mins and gas something costs), but that's just a good thing as it helps you plan out more strategies.

 

@BoP, It's not so much that we didn't have it, we didn't need it. What good is it knowing a unit's range? Are you not going to attack something because its slightly out of range? I see a range being relevant on defensive structures and the siege tank. That's about it. I can't believe you don't have a general idea of most units range when your playing anyways. It's really not that hard.

 

I only want my "sieged" (buildings, siege tanks) units to have it, because of 2 reasons:
- groups of marines: circles in the whole screen eh?
- skill, if every unit has it, it removes the expierenced player in knowing the game.

 

I don't see why we couldn't have a range indicator. We already have a detection range indicator on the Sensor Tower.

If people are worried about clutter... I imagine things like a range indicator could be disabled with a menu button, it's trivial.

Abilities have range indicators now, did you know that? If you call down a nuke, or psi storm, the units/structures that it will hit will highlight red. General attack range-indicators are not a huge step to take.

 

Yes, but is there any need to see the range of marines? Its nice with abbilities and ST´s etc. but do other units need it?
Blizzard games are good because they stay simple, and dont have all these funky thing other games have.

 

You all put up with no range indicators in Sc1, why do you want them now? You need training wheels and an inability to adapt? No Learning capacity?

Should we develop technology which shows the range of our Bluetooth or the range in each our radios will be heard? No, of course not because we already know.

 

I like the idea of range indicators, but only for certain units. It's useful for units such as the Lurker and Siege Tank because they have to "plant" themselves down to attack, but other than that, it's too much and it just detracts from the skill requirements.

 

SC2 targets the whole of the RTS gamers, not just the ones that already know SC at a level where they know every range and ability damage (i.e., things that are not displayed). I can imagine having the range indicator as a toggle option, but only with the drawback of displaying every single selected unit's range to create clutter and encourage people to turn them off. The option would come in handy for all the beginners, plus it wouldn't be too much hassle to implement it for that extra 2 minutes of fun for veteran players. Remember, the interface has to be improved to make SC2 more userfriendly and ultimately outsell SC.

 

You know the range of your headset?

I still haven't figured that out.

All I know is its different from what they say it is but its too far from my PC to matter anyway
--
On a more relevant subject:
What all DO we need?
You can select units without hot keys and order attacks with the buttons instead of right clicking

Dune2 had everything we need to play an RTS:
An interface to build units and an interface to order them to move and attack. Beyond that we don't actually need anything else to play. It is nice to have them. Hotkeys and multiple unit/building selection make gameplay faster and allow you to do more with less mouse work.

Right-click for default action halves the number of clicks you make.

We don't need any of it to play but its nice to have to improve gameplay ad speed and allow for a players skill in unit selection and placement to become more important than the players ability to click fast.


Probably what I want more though is the ability to box select commands so I can press the attack button then draw a box aroung a group of zerglings and say "kill these" instead of doing it on a unit by unit "kill this" basis.
Same with guard commands. Its much more efficient to tell 10 marines to defend a group of 10 SCVs than to order each marine to guard each SCV individually. God forbid you have more SCVs than marines with single target orders

 

Well from my experience I've never played an RTS with attack range indicators. The only indicators I've seen was on SWGB where the shield and power core's range were shown when clicked just like Pylon matrix.

Either people are getting stupid as generations pass or people are just getting lazy, I mean range indicators... Come on, you don't need it, you didn't need it for 10 years and I never heard any complaints lol

Is there a hotkey where you can select all units of a certain type. Lets say you had 30 Zerglings but 15 in your screen, if you double click, you'll have 15 but if you do something like shift+# you'll select every Zergling you own on the map, which seem necessary if we can select up to 225.

Then the game ends up playing its self, mouse work/hotkeys is the point here, its competitive play.

 

Not really

It is call a real time STRATEGY not realtime clickfest.

With a better interface it allows for strategic skill to become more important so the person who is better at choosing the best mix of units and doing the right things with that army won't lose just because the other person can click 500 times a minute.

Also I reiterate you don't need anything. You can play just fine without hotkeys and right click.
Do you want to play without hotkeys and right click?


Just because we were forced to use a crap interface for ten years is not a reason to keep using the same crap interface. Blizzard CAN do better so why not do so?

Also range circles do not let the interface play itself. It merely provides a tool to assist the player in strategic planning and unit placement.



Do me a favor
Find a copy of Dune 2 play it and then tell me what you NEED

 

You two are talking about different things. BoP you're talking about SC as just another game in the industry, and so you're comparing it to other games, which favours a new interface. Psi looks at it from the point of view of being the tool for professional gaming and skill comparison, which favours the bare minimum for interface.

Both are valid standpoints, which is why toggle options are a must for everything ranging from MBS through automing to range indicator and idle worker. Serverside, of course, to ensure fair play.

 

How would an old interface benefit competative play?
Also how does a newer interface harm competetive gameplay.

In SC1 you selected gateways and ordered zealots one by one. Now you can select a group of gates and order a group of zealots at once. What this does is INCREASE the speed of the game because it has saved you the few seconds wasted selecting each gateway seperately. Now you can spend more time devoted to actual combat which is where the game SHOULD be won. I feel that the gam should not be based on who can buy units more quickly or who can click faster. Victory should be based on who can use the units more effectiveley. If you are truly good at micro then you shouldn't even notice a difference since it affects non-combat situations

 

Why do you want to limit the aspects of the game? It's as if you wanted to take away the correct choice of rod, line, bait, reflexes, alertness, and the skill of tiring fish from fishing and only leave the skill of sitting comfortably. The fact that in SC you have to pay attention to lots of things simultaneously is what makes it so complex and hard to master, and is exactly what separates people at differing skill levels and provides ground for tournaments.

I'll give you an example. Let's say 2 people are evaluated by their vocabulary and both score the same points. There is absolutely no data about speaking, listening or grammar skills, so there is much less data on which we could evaluate them and clearly see who's better. Someone who reads books 24/7 can have just as good a vocabulary as a native speaker. Are they equally good at English as a whole? Most probably not because the reader can't speak or pronounce properly and have no idea what spoken English sounds like. Yet by the acquired data, they are both equally good.

Do you see what I (and possibly Psi) mean(s)?

 

Adding a gauge to your rod that shows line tension would not remove the skill required to manage tension