Goodbye Reaver?

But also, the fact that it has that niche....to fight only ground swarm units is exactly the reason why its resouces (which are more expensive than the reaver) is far too much to be of constant use in battle...there's also the fact that it can be killed so easily.

 

i dont mind losing the reaver, but the protoss will need something with as much range as siege tanks and god knows what the zerg will have.

 

It's one unit to kill too many. ;-) Colossus does have an increadible range, and it's very tough. banelings can kill them if they hav the chance, but even when cornered, the first demo shows how it can easily escape to higher ground and once again be unreachable. The whole point is, it's doable, even if it can be killed, if used properly the Colossus can own close range non-obstacle-crossing units, and not so long range non-obstacle-crossing units too, because his range is much bigger. If used properly, it has much more potential than a reaver would have.

I don't know why you think its too vulnerable. And in the end, I bet reavers cost even more than they do if you count ammunition. Can you guys handle me the numbers? How much does a Colossus cost?

 

I heard it was as high as twice as much as the reaver.

Either way...I hate the tripod look that everything is going for...i think that's part of the reason i hate them so much.

But back on topic, but what im trying to say is that its ONLY for swarming units and nothing else really. Like I said before, a Twilight Archon I believe is a lot better considering that it can attack air, it has massive shields, has feedback, and can be used efficiently against tougher units, and its cost efficient depending on your amount of gas/minerals.

 

But they're tier 4,5, as templars are tier 4, and they still need the merging. Colossus is tier 3. Colossus should attack air also. And I remember reading that the twilight archon was only for groun units. =( Good old Archons were absolutely nerfed, and if they hadn't brought back the splash dmg and feedback, there would be no point in making them. Also, they have a small range.

But I found the other day the cost of some SC2 units. Lemme see if I find it again and if they have the numbers for Colossus. Just a moment.


EDIT: Ok, sry, I could only find that Colossus have 400 hp, 325 shield, takes 6 control units, but I didn't find its mineral and gas cost. Even if its double, the colossi have more than triple amount of hit points and shield than the reaver.

All that is left is to compare how many marines they would own in the same amount of time a reaver takes to fire another round. ^^

 

very odd. colossus is one of the coolest unit design in starcraft 1 and 2. i like them very much ^^

here.
reaver vs colossus model? = colossus surely.
in gameplay value? = lets say its a draw.

so anyway 1-0 for the colossus. ^^

 

100 hp x4 = 400 hp ; 80 shield x4 = 320 shield < 325 shield.

Colossus has the resilience of 4 reavers. If its double the price, then its half the cost. It can kill 1 marin per second, as I measured. How long is the cooldown of reavers? I bet it kills 3 marines by the time a reaver can throw another scarab.

 

And a well placed scarab can kill bunches AND has the capability to destroy higher armored units whereas the Colossus will get destroyed by everything before it can get the armored unit down even a 1/5. And by the time you got enough resources to make a Colossus, you probably got the resources to get Vikings AND its flight form up.

 

I do not see any reason why Blizzard removed the Reaver, but I am sure it has something to do with gameplay and balance. The Reaver was an excellent long range bombardment tool... Wait a minute... I think Blizzard removed the Reaver because it looked so bad!

Let me put up my image that I posted a month ago:

[img width=207 height=457]http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1082.0;attach=453;image[/img]

MARIO SMASH!

 

^ wahahahahah. lol.

sorry. its just so funny. ^^

 

I was so sad to hear this! The Reaver was one of my favorite units. (See my avatar) The thing is, I like the Colossi also. I want both of them to stay somehow.

And thanks to opm for the tech tree pictures! These were the most exciting "screen shots" (in my opinion) that have come out of Blizzcon. Good stuff!

 

Question: Is the Colossus transportable by Phase Prism? I've only seen them warp in Zealots. If the colossus can't be dropped in like the reaver it's no substitute.

 

Remember the phase prism does not store the units in side like a dropship it turns them into pure energy and fills the prisms cystal which would mean an object of any size could be transported in it just it would slowly force the cystal to the breaking point of its energy storing capacity and thus possibly only 1 colossi could fit.

 

I think they're not competing for the same position. The problem is, Reaver lost for Warp Ray and Colossus, that shared their position in diferent ways. Scarabs only do dmg to 1 goliath and doesn't kill it (goliaths have 125 hp + armor), and by their positioning, it never hits other goliaths, just one. Now every hit from the Colossus counts.

And because it has no cooldown, it can exploit Siege tanks' long cooldown and enter its range right after it has fired into an immortal decoy. It enter the range and keeps firing at it. By the time the ST gets killed, it will have hit the Colossus way less than the colossus had time to hit him. That if you discount the possibilities in the hand of a skillfull player, that could possibly distribute the dmg of the colossus among units so an archon kills a bunch in one blow. No cooldown has one too many uses. And it always hits its target, diferently from the blockable scarab.

I do like the Reaver charachter a lot too, but it's non fit in the new world. It was said that reavers were cargo robots adapted to field battle. Maybe they're better off in peace now, retired and happy while their old friends take the heavy load... lol


The Colossus is shown beeing teleported by warp gate in the first demo, along with the zealots.

 

Bastard Colossi...taking the Reaver's job...now if the Reaver becomes a drunkard, we'll know why!!

 

I can't wait to use the Colossi in battle though. All of you make good points with the reavers, but I never really used them because of the high cost in micromanagement to keep them running. I never was good at microing, so I never reaver dropped or even built them as support units. The Colossus, however, looks like a unit to tear apart the swarms of marines, zealots, and zerglings that you tend to find on the multiplayer games so much these days. Even if a scarab can deal splash damage, it isn't very reliable. A scarab could kill one or ten zerglings, but three colossi would just tear through them, and I would have the peace of mind knowing that they will die regardless. Also, the colossi will be able to attack from higher ground, and milling scarabs with their terrible ai wouldn't interfere with my foward line troops' movement.

Personally, I say that Colossi will turn out to be better than the reaver, though I have two doubts. The first is that their cost will be too high. 400 minerals could nab you a nice looking carrier. The second is that they will have a weak attack versus buildings, which reavers were very good at obliterating. Then again, I'll probably mix Colossi and Warp Rays...so I guess they'll balance out in the end.

Great debate, guys!

 

Tym29 said that colossi did insane damage and that they could completely destroy buildings left undefended.

 

Really? That's a surprise. Those lasers on the Colossus don't look particulary destructive...though looks can be deceiving! Well, that could change my strategies a bit, but I have to know: Can the Colossi attack air units? I believe I read somewhere that they couldn't, but does anyone know for sure?

 

Nope. They can't. They can be targeted as air though, so watch out for Overload and Vikings.

 

yeah tym also said they were very vunerable to air and zealots (they might have a minimum range, hence why they are support)