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ya he had no zealots or disruptor s

Mauraders still seem like they need their range decreased to like 3 because it seem they get spammed because their range is = to that of a marine.

also if you watch part 2 at 4:37 look how fast the marauders attack its crazy its like a flurry of death and destruction.

 

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and apparently they are thinking of giving them stim packs.

 

They already did watch the first video posted

 

Could be an observer mode thing though.

 

That's a possibility. I personally hope it isn't just for observer mode.

 

I personally hope it is only for obsverver mode

 

Mauraders get stims...... (not a good idea because of the attack speed increase)

why not just give siege tanks nuke attacks and alow the battle cruiser to use its abilities without some kind of cooldown.

 

Let's try this: Mauraders get stims...... (a good idea because of the attack speed increase)

How do you know if an attack speed increase on the Marauder is overpowered? Stimpack is a permanent sacrifice (HP) for a temporary buff (fire rate and movement.) There is no reason this shouldn't be balancible.

 

The reason why it is not balanced is because Marauders are well armored, has same speed as marine, has same attack range as marine, has good damage, can slow down units, can stim, can be healed, can basically force the opponent into getting air units, can destroy same tiered units easily (Roach and Stalkers) with focus fire micro (to compare, Stalkers have Blink and Roach has burrow + regeneration... However, since marauders can slow stalkers down, even when they blink to escape, they can be chased by the marauders...).

With so many Pros.. the only Cons that I can think of is that it cannot attack Air units... but if we look closely... Protoss has Pheonix, and the zerg has Mutalisks, both do fairly low damage against ground units (tho pheonix now has anti-gravity)
Also, Colossi can be totally owned by a pack of Marauders, despite it being a lot more expensive, also cannot attack air, can be attacked by air to air units (notice terran has TWO unit advantages against the Colossi, Banshee and Vikings... not to mention Marauders...), and a somewhat questionable attack style that just begs for explanation (i.e. to be very honest, it is a VERY ugly animation :\)

I've said this before, but no one paid any heed... Marauders should have their Speed Decreased... And I'm definitely against them having Stim Packs... It'd just make the already rigged guy more rigged.. Stim for Marine and Reapers are good enough... Good example would be Barrage of Death giving by the pack of marauders while they were shooting down the Nexus.... To compare, the damage rate on the nexus there is probably equivalent to 12 fully loaded carriers attacking the nexus at the same time back in SC 1.

I'd vote for giving Reapers a bigger role in combat rather than just base raping. Right now they seem fairly weak against an army of any race/decent size.

 

Your post sounds like you successfully predicted some great apocalypse.

You seem to be comparing Marauders directly to Marines, when they cost something like 2.5x as much as a Marine.

And then saying they'll win, when pitted against a unit they're built to engage, with numbers something like two to four times the cost of that unit. A single 200/200 Colossus against a "pack" of 4-5 Marauders? That's ~500/250 worth of units. Yeah, of course they'll win.

Blizzard gives the impression that units from the other races can hold their own against marauders just-fine-thank-you-very-much. I mean, sure, from the raw numbers, the Marauder looks kinda strong, but how do you know how it translates into actual gameplay?
Do you know what else is strong? Zealots with Charge. The Zealot is virtually unchanged from SC1, except for that one upgrade, and that one upgrade makes the unit into a terrifying killing machine. But it's just a tiny speed boost, it gives the unit an extra split second worth of attack- and it makes a big difference.
It may be that the Marauder's seemingly obvious advantages aren't as strong as they appear. Or, more likely, they'd be advantages over SC1 units, but against SC2 units, they only keep the unit afloat.

I bet a Zerglings would tear apart. For cost, if you weigh gas equal to minerals (which is generous) you can make 6 Zerglings for every Marauder your opponent makes.

A Marauder kills Zerglings in 4 shots.
Against 6 Zerglings:
Zerglings deal 5 damage per hit, requiring 24 hits to take down a Marauder (120 hp according to the wiki). Some quick mental math says, with 6 Zerglings, you only need four hits from each one to take it down. My guess would be that a Marauder, even with Stim (with Stim, it would take 22 hits to kill, assuming a 10hp cost for using it) The Marauder would barely be able to take down a single Zergling before falling. It might be able to take two.

Let's make it a bit more realistic.
5 Marauders, a "pack." 600hp.
Cost, 750, minerals+gas.
750 minerals buys 30 Zerglings.
The Marauders can slow 5 Zerglings at a time as they approach, or focus fire them, killing one per shot.
Now, to give you an idea of what we're looking at...
You only need 4 Marauders to one-hit, but we'll assume they're focus firing, for simplicity. The extra Marauder is to give them 1-hits even after the first dies. Because I'm nice like that.
Focus-firing, one-hit kills, you still need 30 shots to take down the Zerglings.
Assume the Marauders are packed, minimizing the surface area for Zerglings to hit.
Assume they are stimmed, and attack at the same rate as Zerglings.
-50 HP for the stims, no big deal.
The Zerglings need to kill 2 Marauders to get down to two-hits. 220HP.
Assume that, as the Marauders are packed, only 4 'Lings can hit at once, per Marauder.
As the Zerglings approach and surround, 5 Zerglings are 1-shotted. 25 left.
The Marauders now each take 20 damage for each 10 they dish out.
Attack, 24 Zerglings. All Marauders take 20 damage. 90+90+90+90+90
Attack, 23 Zerglings, All Marauders take 20 damage. 70+70+70+70+70
Attack, 22 Zerglings, All Marauders take 20 damage. 50+50+50+50+50
Attack, 21 Zerglings, All Marauders take 20 damage. 30+30+30+30+30
Attack, 20 Zerglings, All Marauders take 20 damage. 10+10+10+10+10
Attack, 19 Zerglings, All Marauders take 20 damage. -10-10-10-10-5 <--super overkill- 9 Zerglings are attempting to attack a fountain of blood.

So yeah, the Zerglings finished off all five of the Marauders, while Stimmed, with range, with slow, with only a partial surround, with single-kill-hits, and there are still 19 Zerglings.
Even if you give them room for some micro, for an even more imperfect surround, for more shots off before they hit, would the difference be 19 Zerglings?

A Bunker? Medivac?

A Bunker can only defend 2 Marauders, and can be attacked by much more than 4 Zerglings at once. You'd lose the packing, meaning the 3 exposed Marauders die faster, and have to deal with an extra 4 Zerglings (cost kept balanced.) 34 Zerglings against 3 Marauders and 2 Bunkered Marauders. My money's still on the Zerglings.

A Medivac's cost will bring 8 extra Zerglings to the fight.
Can 5 stimmed Marauders and a Medivac handle 38 Zerglings? (Assuming the 'Lings don't have to kill the Medivac- that would be silly.) Assuming the Medivac can keep 1 Marauder at full, even as it is being hit at 20/cycle, as well as slowing the death of a second by 10 per cycle, (I think this is generous), you'd have a situation that looks a lot like the Bunker fight. 3 go down pretty fast, maybe 15 Zerglings die. The block is broken, dps shoots up as more Zerglings can hit, splat-splat, the remaining ~23 Zerglings chew through the last two Marauders fairly quickly. They take down 1 Zergling every other shot. The Medivac buffs them to an overall 200%HP (number pulled out of the air) over the course of the remaining battle. Assuming one is at 120hp, the other at 60, when the first three die, the Zergligns have to chew through 360hp worth of Marauder. With a better surround, the Zerglings will be dealing something like 30 damage per round, per Marauder. Weak-Marauder drops in 4 rounds (-2 Zerglings) Strong Marauder holds on for 8 (-4Z)
After a bloody battle, there are still 17 Zerglings. And a Medivac.

This doesn't look like "overpowered" to me.

 

should have brought some marines.

 

Marines are a lot more cost-effective against Zerglings, but this isn't about Marines.

 

If you put everything in numbers, they don't seem overpowered. But in a game, you also must factor in everything else such as ease of use (micro-requirement), when the unit can be made (tier), what other units can accompany them (Marines, Medivacs..), and the terrain...

Oh and before I start... I gotta tell you I like to rant about things... but in all due respect, I'm just trying to throw out some ideas

Sure, if you focus on zerglings, it may seem that in numbers, the zerglings would be a good counter (I really didn't bother reading the entire thing... )..
But then, I can simply station marauders on choke areas, or create choke areas (EASY with the new terran) so the zerglings can't even come close.. Not to mention that marauders can slow units down... :\...

Zerg at about the same time can have Banelings and Roaches.... I haven't seen lurkers yet, so maybe lurkers work, I don't know.... But banelings can usually be outmicro by simply moving the marauders back since they walk as fast as marines... (which goes back to my argument that Marauders should be slowed down... since they LOOK like they're carrying twice the amount of armor that Marines have... and be balanced against zealot/zergling/banelings attack [not being able to out-micro these units.. Marauders can already slow them down.. Marines should be opted to do the micro-ing])

Against Zealots, it's the same story, until they get charge. I Guess with a group of stalkers, zealots can be okay against marauders.. altho Marauders can still focus fire on stalkers... :\

I also forgot to mention the Nuclear reactor, which allows you to spam Marauders...

In addition, a Pack of Marauders generally do NOT need much support. Also, Marauders definately exert too much pressure against your opponent (almost as much as Siege tanks did back in the ol' days, but marauders are even more maneuverable) due to the fact that a pack of maybe 7-10 of them can dessimate early expo defenses... Meaning they can rape the 2 cannons/spine crawler/bunkers that you have defending your expo.

Other races do not have this luxury, as stalkers, zealots, and immortals are at the mercy of the cannons, and even though 7-10 zealots can still destroy the defenses, they'd be severely damaged, and can be picked off by reinforcements easily. Not to mention that they don't nearly get the job done as fast as the marauders. This is the same with Zerglings and Roaches. Banelings.. suure, they do tons of damage, but they're suicidal units, which u must then factor in that marauders are still in your base, killing your workers.

The terran already has 3 assault-capable units: Reaper, Siege Tank, and za Thor., each at early game, mid-game, and late game... why do we have marauders being such efficient assault units then? I know I'm overgeneralizing, but I'd much rather have the marauders as a slow, defensive unit that can be brought to battle under the right circumstance. With their high armor, and the ability to slow down units, I'd think it's a no brainer to have them defend your base. And as we all saw, they defend very well. It's just that they attack very well too...

Marauders simply overlaps too many niches. It is like the Hydralisk back in SC1, except much more powerful.
Not only does it have the obvious Pros that I mentioned on my first list, it can exert pressure to the opponent, dessimate early expo defenses, defend choke areas with excellence, does not ( I think.. correct me if I'm wrong ) initiates Immortals' shields (which it ought to, as stalkers cannot hold a candle over marauders), and... yeah i don't know.

Even as slow, defending, marauders would be very very strong, especially since terran can build choke points quite easily, and ... hey waitaminute.. can't marauders enter bunkers as well?!?!?
holy **** it is SO op

 

Barracks need the Tech Lab attached in order to build Marauders, so Marauders cant make use of the Nuclear Reactor.

as for weather the Marauder is overpowered... I say that it is extremely strong, not overpowered, but stronger then it was probably design for, I would prefer if they lose some movement speed, or a little range, perhaps both.

 

I agree with that completely and we still have beta to see.

 

Yes, if you read my post, you'll see that I ran it with two different support situations. I granted the Terran player perfect micro, and they still lost.

Why would I run the simulation with Marines, if your argument is that Marauders are OP, and can do stuff on their own?

And I'm here to tear them apart if you can't support them.

I focused on a unit that the Marauder is weak against. A unit that you seem to deny existing, in stating that the Marauder is OP.
You didn't read my post, so you didn't see that I granted the Marauders 5 kills as the Zerglings approached. Not that that even mattered, because 5 Marauders can't slow 30 Zerglings at once.

A Zerg player would not want to use Banelings and Roaches on Marauders, just like a Terran player would not want to use Marauders on Zerglings.

An overpowered unit cannot be reasonably countered. Right now you have to show that Zerglings are not a reasonable counter to Marauders.

Also, they may be carrying twice as much armor... but who says their powersuits have the same power output? Are truck engines often the same size as car engines?

They can either be focus firing the Stalkers, or kiting the Zealots. it is not really reasonable to do both at once.

No.

Against armored units, maybe. Most units are not armored units.

Yes, 700/350 worth of units will kill 300/0 worth of structures. Good job. 21 Marines could take down that expansion just as easily, you know. Are Marines overpowered?

If the Terran defender gets reinforcements, the non-Terran attacker gets reinforcements too, otherwise it's an unfair match, and the Marauders aren't deciding it.

7 Zealots cost less than 7 Marauders. 10 Zealots against that 2-cannon defense you proposed would decimate it in much the same way the Marauders would. Actually, I think you could do it with 3.

What exactly is an "assault" to you? Like, a siegebreaker? What on earth makes you think dainty Reapers are siegebreakers? And no- Marauders are still not too hot at that, as they don't do full damage against non-armored targets.

What did we all see? I've not seen the Marauder being any more effective attacking or defending than any other unit in its price range.

Which ones are those?

It costs more to build, and can't shoot air. And can't be massed without lots of Barrackses, and Reactors, which is expensive.

Immortals' Hardened Shields limits the damage taken per hit to 10. Marauders would do 20 to an Immortal, as Immortals are armored, but the shields would reduce each hit to 10. An Immortal with Hardended Shields would take 30 hits to take down. That same Immortal would be returning fire at 35 per shot. A resource-fair fight would have 2 Marauders vs 1 Immortal.
This is assuming an equal attack speed. They're probably not equal, but it shouldn't throw it off too much.
With Stim, the Marauders may scratch out a win, but it wouldn't be a huge win.
120+120 :: 300
120+85 :: 280
120+50 :: 260
120+15 :: 240
120 :: 220 -Marauder dies
85 :: 210
50 :: 200 -shields broken
15 :: 180
0 :: 160 - Immortal wins

Two Marauders per bunker. You can (I believe) fit four Ghosts in a bunker. I note: Ghosts can do as much damage as Marauders (against a wider variety of units), with more range. How about that for OP?

Marine Bunker: 24 damage per attack, fast attack
Marauder Bunker 20+20A per attack, medium attack rate
Ghost Bunker: 40+40L per attack, medium attack rate (Battlecruisers do less)

 

Pretty good game from the terran player. The toss player didnt have the right answers to counter the drop in. I did notice that even though the siege tanks range already touched the stalker downhill, it didn't fire at it, maybe the target should be fully visible inside the target area for the tank to attack it. I am kind of curious if the reaper unit will be still a viable unit to use, seeing how the medivac brings the same food on the table added the bonus heal.

Does anyone have a download link to the Nada vs. Moon match?

 

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