Diablo3 rant on the Battle.Net Forums...

There is no escape from the Hex Gore's wrath

Good point about the stats. The only thing they accomplished was helping you screw your char over, so in that light, removing manual distribution is a good thing

 

1) This forum is about Starcraft, not Diablo. Starcraft involves much more community and e-sports spirit than Diablo, and for these reasons, it makes more sense to me to discuss this game, even if it has not been released yet. And at the beginning, I thought there would be serious pieces of news to get and opinions to discuss here, but instead of that I mainly see casual gamers fancying about their dream units, and/or to work for Blizzard... And in addition I plan on the long term to make some mod with Starcraft, thanks to what I think will be a crazy level editor, while, correct me if I am wrong, but the modding possibilities will be much reduced for Diablo, if not completely null.
2) We don't know much about Diablo 3, and it's pretty obvious it will not be released before another two years I think. So it's in my opinion way too early to really discuss the game.

Your comments would make more sense if you would play more the games, instead of thinking that you are always right, whatever you are talking about, just because you are talkative.

Most builds in Diablo involve putting all your remaining points in vitality once you maxed your strengh to get that armor you want your char to wear: the mana points, and its regeneration, are increased by themselves with every levels, and with the patch years ago that enabled back the mana potions to be purchased anywhere, maxing your energy is actually a waste of points, and most hardcore gamers, and I was surprised myself, do not put anymore a single point into energy, and prefer maxing vitality, because life is more important to increase at a late stage than mana, even for casters, and harder to boost through items (while more items have +% mana regen, +x mana for each kill etc). They power level their chars with friends and/or baalruns, and that's it, at level 50-60, with your basic energy points, you have enough mana most of the times to play your char the way you plan, thanks to loads of mana potions and good gear.
And maxing your strength beyond the requirements of the heaviest part of your gear still make sense for melee fighters, because the strengh stat is counted in the melee damage formula. And it is the same for dexterity and attack/defense. I know that may be hard to believe, but since the add-on, the energy is the least interesting stat to build up.

So now back to the last, but not least stupid, part in this quote. Yes, stupid.

Why auto-stats are bad for the customisation of your char?
Think about it five minutes. No, not talk about it, just think about it, just with yourself. Please.
You have 10000 barbarians played on the realm where you are.
100 of them have the same level of your barbarian.
What would make them so different of your character, if the primary stats are all exactly alike of your char?
The gear? If the gear is still based on some requirements, we can assume that for chars of same level, their stats will all be exactly alike, and therefore will be the gear somehow.
The skills? Think about it, if you know your char will have x HP at some stage, s strength points, m mana points etc, will you really try to make that crazy alternative build you were thinking about? You will not, you will build that same build that everybody do, because you will know that this is one of the only ones viable given the current stats of your char, and that this will be the only way to have fun with your char.

The incredible power of Diablo 2 was the possibility for hardcore gamers to make melee sorcs, yes, melee sorcs, or warcriers; Battle necromancers or hammerdins. These kinds of experiments added something incredibly nice to the game, because they still make some sense (well, the hammerdins were overpowered because of a stupid bug), and the replayability of this game is probability the strongest one I ever sampled. I just don't know any other game, beyond maybe Starcraft, that can match that. All that will be gone with Diablo 3, the way it goes. It will just turn the game into a levelup factory for casual gamers, with 2-3 decent builds max possible per class... The game will all be about the gear, and no more the chars themselves. The chars will just be a mean to get the gear, nothing more. This clearly shows the philosophy of a whole society now I think about it...

Unless Blizzard adds some features that could enable the players to have some control on the primary features of their chars in early and late game, through special quests or something, I can already state that all the characters will be alike, before late levels (where the items will start to heavily alter all the chars features). With Diablo 2, most builds were boring to play before level 18-24, because most low level skills are too simple, now they will be boring to play until levels 50-60, when you will be able to get some good gear, what a great improvement! I can already hardly understand people who say that auto-stats will not change much the game, but those who claim it is actually good make very little sense to me...

This auto-stats system is deeply stupid, and clearly shows that the creative team that is working on Diablo 3 is aiming of doing something much more like Warcraft III (the stats were automatically assigned as well) and WoW, and that Diablo 3 will lose a lot of what made the license what is was. I think Blizzard thinks that it is now a useless feature, and that the fun factor may be more focused on the story itself, the graphics etc. I also fear that the randomness of the levels will be lowered, but this is another topic. Diablo 3 looks like to be more arcade and story oriented than its predecessors, and less technical, less dedicated on your char itself. I think that it is a mistake, and that everybody will be like "woohoo!", the day the game will be (finally) released, "best game ever blabla", the usual stuff, and that the game will be forgotten two years later, because once you will have played 2-3 times each class, and got all those l33t items that those guys on some online sites are proud to show off, there wouldn't be any point anymore into playing the game...

 

Look at the section you're in, dude. Other Blizzard games.

Yeah, you're right. I really should start thinking that I'm wrong, eh? It's not like I'm taking what Blizzard themselves have said about it or anything. That would just be stupid, eh? Nah, the proper thing to do would be to, when I first hear of a new system, to immediately form an opinion that's as superficial and uninformed as possible.

Ya.

Firstly, you've proven that the vast majority of builds are same throughout all Diablo2 characters, meaning that even if auto-Stats were introduced for each class, they'd still be more diverse than Diablo2 characters, and secondly, you've forgotten about Energy Shield for the Sorc.

Extra Vitality is almost always rated higher than extra Strength. And again, you've forgotten about Energy Shield.

You be hurtin' mah feelins!

Who ever said the automatically assigned Stats are going to make up the majority of the character's total Stats? You're the one going on about how we can't make any judgements because none of us have played it, but you're the one making random and illogical assumptions. Seriously, why do you think that the automatically assigned Stats will make up such a significant percent?

Yes, Blizzard's already stated that the gear will be the source of manually assigned Stats. Items now have a level requirement, not a Stat requirement, so characters of the same level would only have the exact same Stats if they had the exact same gear, which won't happen in Diablo3 as the 'best' items will be randomly generated, not preset like they were in Diablo2. There will still be powerful Uniques, but they won't be the best items in the game. So, overall, players of the same class and the same levels wouldn't be able to have the exact same Stats if they tried, which they wouldn't be in the first place because they'll have to be assigned differently for how they're wanting to play. We've already seen that even the Barbarian, which appears to be one of the most static classes in Diablo, has a tonne of different playing styles, and don't say that he doesn't, because it's clear from the original gameplay video that he does.

This just proves you've taken a blatantly superficial viewpoint of the auto-Stat system. What, did you just hear that it was implemented and just decide then and there that you were against it? Believe it or not, when I first heard of it I hated it as well, but when I read Bashiok's comments on the matter, listened to interviews and actually read about why it was implemented and how the whole Stat system would work, not just auto-Stats which is only half of the system, I've seen that it will, in fact, work, and work much better than Diablo2's system, at that.

As for creating crazy alternate builds, the only reason you wouldn't be able to would be if you chose not to wear the gear needed for that build. On top of that, the Wizard already has a melee skill tree and the Barbarian has a lot more ranged abilities at his disposal as well, so even without any notice of Stats, Blizzard has already allowed for alternative builds.

Already responded to that without even realising. Yes, even without looking at Stats, Blizzard has already allowed for melee Wizards and ranged Barbarians, and with Runes, that will be increased even further. And again, the only way certain builds wouldn't be viable is if you personally choose not to wear the alternative gear. You know how you click those little plus button thingies to up your Stats in Diablo2, yeah? Well in Diablo3 you'll be wearing different gear to up your Stats because gear will be fairly Stat-intensive in Diablo3. So, overall, has the customisation been removed? No. It's still there. At the moment you're jsut choosing to ignore it. Players of the same class and same level will not have the same Stats. If that's your interpretation of auto-Stats, then you're taking an even more superficial viewpoint that I'd originally thought.

You mean, some features like gear? You mean like, features that they've already implemented? And again, why are you making random and irrational assumptions about what the gear drops will be like? You said yourself that it's too early to comment.

Again, auto-Stats don't make up the entirety of the Stat system like you're assuming it does for some odd reason. Stats and gear make up the system, which will fix two of the broken systems in Diablo2.

Lawl, I'm not even going to comment on that. You can request a reply, but until then, I'm not touching that. One question though... How closely have you been following Diablo3? Do you watch many of the interviews? Read the BlizzCast? Visit the Battle.Net Forums? Or do you just hear of a system that's being implemented, decide you don't like it and make up reasons why it doesn't work?

Overall, Diablo2 Stats were seriously flawed. I don't even find it funny any more when people complain that this will remove customisation when all anyone ever did in Diablo2 was put enough points in Strength and then totally max out either Vitality, Dexterity or Energy. Not only will Diablo3 still have customisable Stats, and refusing to believe that is like refusing to believe that Protoss are in StarCraft, but the system will work a lot more effectively than Diablo2 and will also customise characters on a visual level as well, because every player won't be running around with, or looking for, the best Uniques in the game.

 

Wow, so few arguments expressed with so much words...

Are you paid to post here?

Here is a summary for the people who don't feel like reading everything.

• Max your energy because mana shield
• read all the interviews and watch every related videos before to start making any opinion about Diablo 3
• auto-stats > customisable stats
• There are runes and exceptional random items in Diablo 3, and they will enable you to customise your character better than the primary stats

 

I wouldn't have to repeat myself if you knew what you were talking about.

1. Maxing Energy?
   
   Yes, it's done by Sorceresses with Energy Shield.​
2. Learn about what you're talking about before arguing about it?
   
   Yes, that's a given. Otherwise you're just arguing a completely superficial viewpoint.​
3. Auto-Stats greater than customisable Stats?
   
   I guess they are. Customisable Stats are hardly customisable anyway. People just get enough Strength and then max the one other Stat they want. At least auto-Stats aren't broken. On top of that, auto-Stats are only half the equation.​
4. Randomised items and Runes?
   
   Yes, they will help customise your character and play-style. Randomised items means that people won't all be going around wearing the best Uniques, and won't constantly be looking for the best Uniques. Runes, and the designated skill tree means, not only that melee Wizards and ranged Barbarians will be possible, but that they're encouraged as a viable spec.​

 

Thank you for proving me right.


My apologises to the others for this off-topic.

 

In what way exactly?

 

lol, if it serves any purpose.. lemme just say I agree 100% with itza D:

 

Well, I'm sorry, I have to agree with Jissé here...

Hey, maybe we could all pick sides? Eh? Oh, oh and start a poll to see who wins... Yeah... Jks!

But I do agree with Jissé

 

On what points specifically?

In Diablo2, the system was broken and everyone pretty much had the exact same build. At least with the auto-Stats, even if you take them as being the entirety of the Stat system which it most definitely isn't, the system won't be broken. We won't see the auto-Stats just dump every point into Vitality or anything.

Taking the other half of the system into account, being the gear, gear's going to be a lot more Stat-intensive and the best gear will be randomly generated. This means that instead of customising your Stat points by increasing them each level, you customise them by choosing what gear you're going to wear. This means that you're still in charge of the direction you're wanting to take and the Stats you want to buff, it means that you can't permanently mess up your character by investing in the wrong points, nor do you have to stick to that exact build once you've chosen it, and it also means that you're customising your character on a visual level as well.

Diablo2:

• Everyone had the same basic builds...
• Alternative specs were usually based solely on a single skill...
• Everyone was wearing, or were after, the 'best' Unique items...
• Overall, everyone was practically the same. Same basic builds and same Unique gear. The only difference was what attack people wanted to use.

Diablo3:

• Although Stats are automatically assigned, having customisation based off of random gear means that builds will be different...
• New skill trees allow for viable alternate specs, meaning that the character will not be forcibly pushed in a certain direction...
• Having the best items in the game randomised will mean that people aren't wearing, and won't be searching for, the 'best' Uniques, so characters' equipment will be highly personal and will customise everyone visually as well...
• Overall, everyone will be different in Diablo3. With flexible builds based on randomised items, more alternative skills to fully allow for many more viable specs, and items that customise your character visually as well mean that you'll be able to personalise your character a heck of a lot more than you could in Diablo2.

Oh, and complaining that auto-Stats will take over your character is like complaining about each classes base Stat points when they started a character. Obviously auto-Stats will have a bit more of an impact, but they're nothing more than base Stats.

 

How do you know there won't be 3 or so builds per class that everyone will use?

 

Firstly, even if there are, it's still an improvement on Diablo2. Diablo2 had three plausible builds in total, includes maxing Energy which was only useful for the Sorceress specifically, so it's more like two. Also, in Diablo3, you won't simply be able to just make a set build because Stats will come randomly on items. Chances are that people will still go along similar guidelines, like increasing a specific Stat as much as possible, but you won't simply be able to just dump everything into them, and especially when there are other bonuses to take into consideration.

Hopefully the Stats will also be balanced a bit more, which I'm sure Blizzard will try to do, so that hoarding one specific Stat won't be a good idea.

 

In diablo 2 you needed the stats to equip the items. Apart from giving you more health thats really all they were used for... In diablo 3 you say the items give +'s to the stats... What's the point of plussing to stats if the items don't need stats for you to equip? Are the stats gunna have a bigger impact? I mean actually do something?

 

It has been said already that stats will be way better in terms of gain per stat spent. You can check it on the DiabloWiki located somewhere at diii.net, which is one of the 'official' fan sites constantly updated with news about d3.
Anyway, people should at least check the MAJOR improvements made on the stat systems and character customization (Talisman, anyone?) before openly criticizing the new system. Let alone the many improvements that will be added as the game continues to develop.

 

@ Simbob. As Maelstrom said, Stat's are going to have a much more major influence, and not only with their immediate effects, but certain spells and abilities, like Leap, are primarily based off of Stats and on top of that there are passive skills, like Focused Strength, which can increase their effect.

On top of that, all Stats will be useful for all characters. Even Willpower, the new Energy, will be useful for Barbarians, especially Juggernauts and Battlemasters, because it gives a percentage Health Globe bonus, which when combined with passive skills like Recovery and Scavenge, would greatly increase the effect of the Health Globe system.

 

Ok, but I still think auto stats is a bad idea... It's the one thing I hate about wow... I wanna max agility on my warrior but I can't, so I have to get heaps of gear the gives me + to agility... Makes me angry...

 

You can, dude. You can get all +Agi gear, +Agi gems, +Agi scrolls, etc. Just because you're not manually putting points into Agility and just because your other base Stats are getting passively buffed doesn't mean you're not maxing Agility.

 

That is the whole point of such system, and that is what sucks.

It just tries to make people more greedy, constantly looking for better gear etc. This is artificial, and corrupt the game. With the character profiles on good old tabletop games, you could build up your character the way you wanted (with most games), now it's all about getting more and more items, and you character him/herself doesn't matter anymore.

Americans... Your system that you are so proud can collapse right in front of your eyes, you still don't understand...

Now in forums, players will then not talk anymore about their chars, no more levels or stats or whatever, but just their items. Their items will be their whole online life. When they will sell their items or die or have to bet back their bodies (assuming this part is like in D2), their chars will be nothing, just naked, clueless people.

Haha, I think I am going to save a couple of bucks and hundreds of hours with this game.

Poor Diablo.

 

Naah, they couldn't possibly let people lose their precious gear.

 

And how did having set items that every single player wanted make people greedy? And how does the character not matter? Saying that the new item system takes away from the character is like saying that the old Stat system takes away from the character, and implies that the old systems added to your character, which they seriously didn't. Seriously, there're just two different systems that achieve the same goal. In one, your click a button each level to increase your Stats, and in the other you switch gear to do so. There's hardly a difference in how it relates to your character and, in fact, using items probably relates to your character more because you can visually see the change and how your character is progressing. You don't get that with the old Stat system.

Mind explaining what you're trying to say here?

Like anyone talking about their Stats for Diablo2! It was just Strength and all Energy for Sorcs, Strength and all Vit, for others, or, if you're really lucky, Strength and all Dex. On top of that, items are all people talked about in Diablo2. Well, items and Runes/Rune words. Also, apart from the fact that Stats and gear will most likely be talked about, there're all the new systems being implemented, like the new skill system and skill runes.

Just to elaborate on that, even in World of WarCraft, the game which everyone's fearing Diablo3 will become, there isn't as much focus on items as you're saying. Despite having auto-Stats and preset unique items, people still focus on the Stats. If you're looking up a build or a spec, or what level (not as in level one to seventy, but level of gear) you should have before attempting Kara or other Heroics, people always talk in Stats, not gear. They definitely do recommend gear, but, not only will they recommend a whole lot of pieces, but they still focus on the Stats.

And just to expand on that specifically, seeing as there will not be any preset Uniques, players will most likely have to talk in terms of Stats, as simply saying the name of a Rare item means absolutely nothing. Items still do strongly contribute towards your character specifically, and they are the way that players will allocate their own Stats, but they won't be the central focus of the character.

Also, again, you're being hypocritical. You're having a go at others for judging a game that's not going to be released for a while, and you're already saying what people will be talking about, and what the feel of the game will be like, while demonstrating very little knowledge of what been said or why these systems have been implemented, further showing that you've got an extremely superficial viewpoint, which reminds me... You still haven't answered my question. How closely have you been following Diablo3?

See you in Tristram.

... And have fun summarising all this in a Too Long; Didn't Read post, ignoring everything that's been said, explaining why you still see no value in the new system. I'm looking forwards to it.