Customized play styles: uber universal upgrades

Of course, the ultralisk would die of a heart attack in the process, becoming so frenzied while chopping earth

 

you also have a good point lol
or they could just not have burrow...

 

Finally someone who said that. THANK YOU! Giving ultralisks the burrow ability would be, IMO, unlogical, if not comical.

I'm still for only zerglings having the underground movement ability. Maybe lurkers too.

 

definitly the lurker and the lings would be fun to use

 

I don't think Lurks should move while burrowed because that defeats the purpose of laying an advantage in advance and takes away the vulnerability it had where it couldn't attack above ground. That vulnerability is removed if it doesn't have to go above ground to move.

Also underground units should go more slowly than when they are above ground

 

well yea but i get what your saying about the lurkers

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you totally nuked me :-\ lol

 

Thats why it just be an option of a number of mutually exclusive upgrades because by your oponent chossing this upgrade they are giving up the oportunity to get something else equally useful/powerful.
And because of that this becomes a balanced possibility and not defeatful of the lurker's weaknesses.

 

Prhaps a seperate upgrade that allows the Lurkr to mov underground.

From reading another thrread I got the idea thatanother 'toss upgrade should allow ALL Dark Templar units to cloak so this would mean that in addition to the DT the stalker and warp ray would also cloak and the dark obelisk would be given the ability to cloak a base like the Mothership can.

Thoughts?

 

Very interesting. I just don't embrace this idea right away because it involves so many things to consider, that I might regret. However, a beautiful idea to think about.

 

Why would 35 HP zerglings being able to move through units taking free shots the whole time to tag high templars in the rear ranks be OP? Then why would that exact same scenario be not OP when it's limited to just the lings? Where is the logic in that?

Samething with the lurker. Why would making it a separate lurker upgrade fix it from being OP? If anything, the whole uber upgrades mechanic would keep it from being imba, because you are choosing that option over two other equally powerful choices and you opponent also has his uber upgrades to level the playing field.

I'm starting to feel like there is no point in putting time into making a post these days. People don't read a damn thing you say. It's very annoying, but let me repeat myself. Burrowed units should not be able to move through buildings. If a unit tunnels directly under a Nexus or CC and stops there, it would not be a location that it can unburrow, because it isn't a location that it can normally occupy above ground. So tunneling units don't move through buildings. It's the same thing for things like water and whatnot, and highground/cliffs for balance reasons.

Just because there is a possible viable use for an idea doesn't necessary make it OP. Why shouldn't you be given the possibility of using zerglings to tunnel their way to the casters in the back? You just put your money on that uber upgrade and the whole point of it is for burrow not to be useless, now it's OP because it's marginally useful? These are ideas for uber upgrades. I just don't follow.

About people's concern regarding the lurker, I think it's fine in this scenario for it to have tunneling. It's the same reason why any of these ideas would be OK at all in the first place. This isn't the Lurker Burrowed Movement thread, this is the uber upgrades thread. I think making tunneling 80% movement speed for every other unit and 50% movement speed for the lurker would be adequate. Half speed is pretty damn slow. As for the ultra, I don't really care either way personally, but I doesn't really need to have burrow. It goes against why you get ultras anyway. Even if ultra had tunneling, no one would use it.

Dimensional Recall, I think it's a sweet idea. I also agree with LordKerwyn that the nexus should be the recall building. You don't have to worry about early game, because none of the uber upgrades should be available until very late anyway. It should be tier 3, and all three options available at the same time. But the recall would need to be limited in some way. Whether it's a very long cooldown, energy cost, shield cost, or something else, it has to be limited.

 

I agree that if the lurker does get movement while burrowed it should move slowly. It would move slowly for the reason the guardian moves slowly: you don't need that kind of power on your doorstep in under 2 seconds. The lack of speed would give it a weakness by being food for fast units just as being vulnerable above ground balanced its danger

 

I think specific detail like that can be left out of this thread. We are here to come up with interesting ideas that could possibly work. We shouldn't worry about exactly how things would work. There would be almost an unlimited number of ways you could tweak that, so we don't need to worry about things like if it should be 50% movement speed or 46.7825674% movement speed.

 

well said remy, people like to think that every new thing the can do will be OP, "wow! what if you tunnel behind all the zealots to take out the ht, wow! what if you fly the thor behind enemy baase and start bombarding, wow! what if you can make 100 thors and bomb the crap out of everything..."

they don't realize that there are many factors involved in everything. all the complaining about tunneling is like saying, prior to broodwar, "omg if you gave DA the ability to mind control any unit, not only does it mean a instant kill for the enemy, it also gives you that unit free, in the heat of the battle! imagine if you had 10 DA's you could mind control 10 bc's or carrier's, that would be so OP!!" this is a classic line of argument, they use extreme examples to justify their opposition, they don't consider what other factors are invovled and how likely the said scenario will actually happen in a real game. they think suddenly they are given 10 DA will mind control and full energy and the opponents just happens to fly his fleet right into the archons.

 

First of all, if the Ultralisk should definitely not be able to burrow no matter what, unless it has been changed for a custom map in the Map Editor.
Second, if one of the Zerg units is allowed to move while burrowed, it should be the Lurker because it is the most advanced burrower in the Zerg Swarm already, and I don't think that another units would be able to learn to move underground before the Lurker does. I'm not sure what should happen about the Lurkers underground speed though. Maybe it should remain the same except it keeps on pausing like Broodlings in StarCraft1. That way, the Lurker would still move at the same speed when its moving, but overall it would still be slower than when it walks/runs.
Third, you should be able to know that a burrowed unit is there, but it should be subtle. All cloaked units were partially visible when Cloaked, so I think the same should happen with Burrowing, after all, it's impossible to dig yourself into a hole while leaving no evidence of it on the surface. It shouldn't be obvious, and it should be even less obvious when it is standing still, but there should be some sort of hint that it's there.

 

there will be a hint, even cloaked units had that blur

 

That's what I'm saying, Burrowed units, moving or not, should have that blur. When they're moving it would be more obvious anyway, because the moving distortion catches your eye, but when it's standing still it is easy to overlook.

 

i like the movement of the broodling for the lurker undergound... i just makes sense...
digs gets tried
digs gets tried
digs gets tried
digs gets tried

 

It would also be a great way to slow down its underground speed. Broodlings were pretty fast when they had a chance to move and hadn't already been blown up, but because they kept stopping every 2nd second, it would make them horrible for if they had to cover long distances. If this was the way the Lurker moved, it would still give the player an incentive to Unburrow their Lurkers. Even if they just walk, overground, them to just outside the enemies base or in a choke-point or something, then they could still be caught above ground. Also they should still require a long time to Burrow, just like in BroodWar, but with the Underground Movement ability it should probably be a bit longer even if it's just by a second or so. This give the enemy time to focus their fire on your Lurkers before they disappear under the ground and rip apart the enemy's forces.

 

i hope they do a good job with the burrow animation...
i just hope the lings can move while burrowed ;D

 

Zerglings shouldn't be able to move while Burrowed. Sure, they're small, but it's not one of the main things that a Zergling would focus on improving. Lurkers on the other hand would try to specialize even more, and be able to do even more stuff underground that they used to in StarCraft1.