Cobra

all the threads should be renamed "paragon" lol

 

dont say that. not after ive tried to get them to stop fighting. just leave it be. dont harass paragon for being paragon, and paragon, dont harass them for harassing you for being paragon.

 

I wave a white flag for burkid

Please accept my apology: I'm sorry I interfered with your enjoyment of the forums burkid. I only wish you had said so earlier :'(

 

I think we should make an automated bot or something that we could harass whenever we want to harass just for the sake of harassing

 

@ Nikzad, it was amusing for a little while, but after being on blacktop for 9hours a day all week (marching band), sleep deprivation (insomnia), and fracturing friendships, im just at breaking point. as i said this used to be my sanctuary from the petty feuds of real life, and i want to do everything i can to keep in that way.  

@ Wlck742... no. no, no no no... no. harassment isnt fun when you are on the recieving end or when you're a spectator.

 

Poor you. Go get a roller coaster. Or go skydiving. Or bungee jumping. Or Starcrafting. That always helps.

 

So, how 'bout them Cobras?

 

they are a light anti-tank hovercraft that can move and fire simotaneously and do 10 normal damage with an extra +15 damage to units classified as armored. and are in no way a vulture replacement. and they are pretty sweet.

 

Thank you burkid. What i've been trying to return to for so long. And you are correct on all counts.

 

The Reaper is the replacement for the vulture. I believe Paragon or some other member has stated this before.

And yeah, the Cobra is pretty sweet, they didn't seem too overpowered considering they move slow and thus are a little susceptible to Thor fire anyways. However, i am concerned what other purpose the "move while shooting" ability will have other than countering Thor's.

 

move and shoot seems to be a good mechanic for flanking and retreating. while the cobra does not move especially fast, it may still be able to flank while the main force is engaging the enemy units

 

They could actually be very useful against a moving column of units in the classic "Crossing the T" maneuver, in theory at least. I'm not sure how often that would occur in a modern RTS. But if someone pulled off it would be bad-ass. And they might get a square named after their triumphant battle in london (a la Trafalgar Square.)

 

I apologize for the recent ruckus and the huge movement off the main topic. Although I generally find discussions that branch off of the main topic to be more valuable and interesting, that was obviously not it.

Paragon and I have made amends and patched things up. He was the bigger man and apologized, I apologized after. Because I'm the smaller man...

But anyway, out of all the off topic discussion(more like argument), I mentioned my view on Terran's main strength based on how Terran was in SC1. I felt like elaborating on it and presenting my whoel view on that so I've made a new thread on it. Anyone interested can read it here: http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/index.php?topic=2054.0

I would like to point out that it is in no way in retaliation to Paragon, and I just wanted to present my thoughts on that in whole since that was brought up.

Now with the thread back on topic to the cobra, I still do not feel very enthusiastic about it all. I feel that the cobra's slow ground speed seriously limit the otherwise great potential of its move-and-shoot mechanic. However, Paragon's example of it coming into play when fleeing does provide an example of when it can at least be somewhat useful. I hope that there is some serious usage to that mechanic that or the cobra in general that we're just not seeing yet, or the cobra be improved in some way. What it is right now just seems way too slow. Blizzard is really kidding themselves and fooling no one when they demonstrated how the cobra was able to circle around the thor to take it down effectively and with ease.

 

I believe that the Cobra will get some sort of speed upgrade like the Vultures back in SC1. Otherwise, I don't see how useful their move and shoot mechanic would be due to its slow speed. But then, if it moves too fast, I believe it would truely be imbalanced because they can just move and shoot all day long and no one can catch up to them.

 

We have all been lied to. Thor isn't that slow and the cobra isn't that fast. Either that or that there has been a breach in the time/space continuum and we've all heard it wrong.

But all kidding aside, what Ych9 said is why I brought up the suggestion of making cobra a very fast moving stop-and-shoot unit like the vulture and just scrap the move-and-shoot mechanic. As I would imagine it would be hellishly difficult to find the right balance that works perfectly around everything in the entire game.

But one down side to that idea that I realize is that if the cobra is made to move very fast like the vulture, even with no bonus damage vs infantry, it would still serve to be quite effective vs infantry. UNLESS, the general DPS of the cobra is made into crap without the bonus damage. But this problem I believe would apply to the slow(er) moving move-and-shoot cobra as well.

I hope Blizzard knows what they're doing and there really is some awesome use that we just fail to see right now, I hope they're laughing at us unbelievers right now. But if that's not it, I really hope they improve it soon, because what I saw in the Terran demo vid was completely disappointing.

 

the cobra is easily balanced. it's circling attack will only be good against single targets. take the demo for example, while they were circling the thor, the marines could ahve been shooting the entire time, regardless of how fast it would have moved

 

Not all units in the game have ranged attacks.  And if multiple target are melee units, then the cobra would be not only be good against single targets.

Also, if the target armored unit is a ranged attacker, the move-and-shoot is largely useless.  We saw this in the Terran demo vid.  If cobras can't even effectively circle a single Thor that's supposed to be hella slow, it will only be worse against everything else.

The example of when fleeing would still offer usefulness and be an exception, but that's a relatively small benefit IMO.  Because while that is a benefit, it is at the same time serving to be THE limiting factor on why the cobra can't be any faster.  And I think when overall usefulness is weighed, a fast moving stop-and-shoot would still be better in the end.

Stop-and-shoot to fire at the pursuers while moving at speeds hella fast to stay with the other fleeing Terran units during attack cooldown would be similar to fleeing while shooting under the move-and-shoot mechanic but at a slower ground speed.  In both cases the cobra is hitting the pursuers, but in both cases the cobra is also taking hits itself.  So while things are similar in this case, the move-and-shoot mechanic limit the cobra from being a faster and thus more useful unit.

All of this sound familiar, I think I've already said something like this before...

 

Oh damn, those lings are going to have a tough time if Cobras have a speed upgrade. Vultures were the fastest ground unit when upgraded, and if Cobras have that speed, there's pretty much no unit that can kill it quickly. Maybe Cobras should miss more when they move, or do less damage. It makes a bit more sense that way, but I doubt that's how it'll turn out.

 

They would have to limit how much speed they give the cobra if it keeps the move-and-shoot.
Vulture speed + move-andshoot = IMBA.

Vulture wasn't just the fastest ground unit, it was faster than all air units as well.

 

If cobra moved at about the same pace as an un upgraded vulture I don't think it would be to bad