Cobra

nice post Remy, as usual
but can you explain to me what you mean by momentum? firepower is pretty self-explanatory but I'm not sure I know what you mean by momentum

 

Wow, I could really picture Remmy in real life making that speach behind an american flag with four guys with kazoos going. DOoo- Do- Do- Do- Do- Do... Doooo..Do.

 

Terran has a full march at mid-game(referred to as the "Terran's one-shot" by Koreans) once siege tech is available and enough tanks are online, it's pretty text book. Terran units by design are not self-sufficient and rely on the synergy of a balanced mix of units. M+M is weak against hydra/lurker by themselves, tanks are weak against leg-upped zerglings and air by themselves. Also, Terran must rely on their units for base defense, more so than the other races. Siege mode tank is what provides the backbone to the firepower that is needed for momentum of the full march, so it doesn't come until at least mid-game.

With all of the factors combined, it is harder for Terran to make quick assaults against the opponent, especially striking multiple locations simultaneously or make multiple assault in quick succession. Terran also have a harder time dealing with repeated annoyance tactics themselves, especially when they do march out, because they have to move their army together in formation and can't quickly alter troop movement, and also because Terran units are very slow in general. This is why repeated small scale assaults using annoyance tactics serve to slow down or at least delay the Terran. Terran players who are skilled but not at the highest level will often lose because they failed to keep all of their ground forces moving together when dealing with annoyance tactics, hits on the expos, or ambush tactics.

Once the Terran is ready for the all-out offense, they move out in unison in attempt to first take dominance of the open ground in the middle of the map, then systematically advance the entire formation toward the enemy's base. The one-shot is always there and can always be expected, it is only a matter of when and how well it is pulled off. The opponent's job is to delay the one-shot as much as possible with early rushes, hit-and-run tactics, and assaults on expos, until it is more favorable for the non-Terran, such as having defilers out.

Vultures play a role in this because they fill the gap at early tier 2 before enough tanks and siege tech is ready for the full march all the while riding the same factory tech as tanks. Basically they buy you the time you need while also doing some damage to the opponent at the same time. You would use vulture's speed to assault the enemy's mineral line while avoiding full-on confrontation as much as possible, killing workers even while taking some enemy fire. Vultures also provide the cushion needed during that gap in timing to keep units like zealots in check as well as reinforce the Terran defense against heavier assaults with spider mines.

Terran rely on their whole ground army more than any other race, but their full march is very deadly because it carries so much momentum. To play Terran well at higher skill levels, it takes a lot of micro, a good understanding of the overall game-flow, and most importantly, great discipline.

 

Sorry for the long post and sorry for all the quotes but I had to point out each thing I was talking about and most of my responses are longer than the quotes they respond to.

I was under the impression that all the races needed firepower to win... by like... shooting at stuff. And obviously there are always other ways to go but you seem to be saying "no that's dumb (yes thats right I see you belittling my idea saying it belongs in noob land or whatever. hey maybe someone will power down you for saying my idea was dumb in different words? no, didn't think so http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/index.php?topic=1983.msg49504#msg49504). Your idea of what terran strength is is not the end all be all of terran strategy. I give an example of someone else terrans COULD DO and you dismiss it. "Terrans CAN BE a mobile force" and "don't have to rely on momentum and firepower" were my exact words.

This is a rather vague term in this usage and you have not explained it as of yet. It's like saying "the strength of the protoss is in its pizazz. The typical reaction would be "um... what? care to explain?"

I just threw in the ghost in the end as an afterthought. I could do it without a ghost too. And EVERYTHING about how units in starcraft 2 play is theoretical

The design of the Cobra lends itself to being a light tank that happens to hover. For just one of many examples, the Warrior is a British light tank that is often fitted with TOW anti-tank missiles.

So you would change the vulture into an anti-armored role and give it the cobra model and call it either the cobra or the vulture. As vulture might confuse some people about the role and the change in appearance lets just go with cobra. So it's got the cobra's name, model, and role. How is it in any way related to the vulture?

Well what if you were, say, retreating for whatever reason. And hey, maybe you even have some siege tanks. These are pretty slow units relative to other units. But you are being chased down by stalkers for instance. They keep blinking up close to you and shooting then blinking again and shooting. Now, you could just group your cobras and siege tanks together and, since units will go the same speed if they are in the same group and told to move at the same time, you can have the siege tanks in front with the cobras behind them constantly shooting at the stalkers AND retreating at the same time. Sounds better than ordering the siege tanks to retreat and then microing the hell out of vulture/cobras that will have to stop/shoot/catch up to the stalkers whenever they blink. There's one use. I could think of more.

And? I knew the reaper was a vulture replacement from the moment I saw them do their thing on the gameplay trailer the day starcraft 2 was announced. Since you know the reaper is a vulture replacement why would you "much rather they bring back the vulture in place of cobras." That would make 2 vultures.

Again. And? Funny sentence structure though. You state some great thing you believe you did (being the first) and then say "so what?" as if what you said doesn't matter at all. So... so what? Why even say it at all. By the way, my first impression of what warp in did from the initial game play trailer was spot on. Doesn't mean I was first. I'm sure lots of people correctly guessed what it did when they saw the game play trailer.

I'm having difficulty finding where I did any of this in my post... Sure I've said that I've gotten things right in OTHER posts but none of those are in this thread.

YOU'RE bringing up the vulture. Note that my post prior to yours was all about how it sorta looked like a hover tank from star wars. Your post compared it to the vulture and how you would much rather have the vulture than the cobra summed up pretty good in this statement by you: "I much rather they bring back the vulture in place of cobras."
Also, no cussing. Rule 3. I bleep out mine.

You are describing units and stats from a game that the cobra is not in, StarCraft. The cobra exists in StarCraft 2 where there have been significant changes to Terran. And sure, it's all only theory for StarCraft 2 but hey, that is where the cobra belongs. With the other units in the theory-crafting. And no race has really self-sufficient units, as they shouldn't, terrans do seem like a faster race in StarCraft 2 compared to StarCraft. Quicker AAG (Air Anti-Ground) provided by the banshee where before the only real AAG threat was the BC. Quicker AA/AG with the viking's two modes. Also, you forgot dropships in your assessment of terrans. Dropships can make terrans incredibly mobile in place of a slow and costly push/full march.

Reapers, banshees, vikings, all these are oriented towards quick assaults.

Dropships are relatively fast. Just because a unit could just walk somewhere doesn't mean it should. Also, dropships offer you with more choices for where you want to deploy your troops rather than a direct assault on a choke point. Combine this with banshees, vikings, predators and you shouldn't have too much of a problem.

This is a weakness to all races in StarCraft. Protoss seem to have a better way of dealing with this in SC2 that they had in SC with warp in and while zergs had nydus canals, i haven't seen too many cases of them being used. Although zerg does have small and fast units. Protoss units are generally slow. So hitting a protoss expo fast and then moving on would occur before the protoss army got there just like with terrans.

I must have missed this in Terran 101. I had no idea there was only one way to play terran. All these years I've been playing completely differently. It's a wonder I kept winning...

Why would someone just let the other person pick away at them while they build up for some massive all out attack? To quote you "what kind of boring race would it be without some options on the side?" You seem to be saying that terrans only have this one option. What kind of boring race WOULD it be...

Sometimes I skip vultures cause it delays my getting the siege tank.

They buy the time you need by wasting time being on the queue?

All good uses of the vulture. And these will probably be the uses that the Reaper will be tasked with aside from the spider mine (although with proper timing you may be able to catch some units with the explosive charge if you can provide a good enough distraction)

The only race that really balances it's reliance on air and ground in starcraft is the zerg. The protoss could get scouts, corsairs, or carriers. Wraiths are more prevalent than Scouts. Corsairs are more prevalent than valkyries. Battlecruisers and Carriers are about even in prevalence. Terran and Protoss rely on air about the same amount.

Same goes for zerg and protoss...

 

Hey Paragon can you summarize everything you just said in.. Less sentences?

 

No. I only want responses from people willing to read the whole thing anyways.

 

So you want no responses?

 

I figure remy will respond
and if he doesn't then i'll add another notch to my stick

 

wow! nitpicking! how unique! ignoring the fact that Terran have the siege tank, AND the huge-ass Thor! Splendid!

Did you read my post? What does it talk about? Word choice. You called Sagathox's idea dumb, flat out, and put it down. Remy may have called your idea dumb, but he has more grace. You'd think that with 2637 posts (at the time of this post) you'd have picked up on subtleties and word choice. Apparently not.

Edit: You didn't PM me to complain about being powered down (and THAT'S the correct way to reference it, not "power downed")this time...realize that you deserved it or that it's not other peoples' faults that they don't like you?

Regardless of when you threw it in, it's there, don't try to backpedal just because you posted something inaccurate or weak and got called out on it.

I'll leave the rest for Remy, if he chooses to respond.

congratulations to you if he doesn't
[img width=315 height=466]http://plig.org/things/pictures/tn/arguing.med.jpg[/img]

 

Dude, that thing is funny.

 

Every race shoot stuff and win, the end.  So all the races are the same?  When did I say only Terran has any firepower?  I belittle your idea when it's not good.  You seemed to have enjoyed much belittling all over the forums, now you have a problem when it's done to your ideas?  It is indeed true that my idea of what Terran strength is ain't the be all end all of anything, but your example with a ghost nuking to provide mobility sure as hell ain't nowhere close.  Your example sucked, which is exactly why I'm belittling it.  And it's noob city, not noob land, not noob town, not noob ville, I said noob city.

I've already explain in reply#122.  Your inability to comprehend the existence is your problem, don't confuse it with reality.  I sure am wondering why if it's so vague and you are so clueless why you didn't ask before your ealier reply.  The Terran's main strength is firepower and momentum, as opposed to Zerg's strength being flexibility.  Believe in your pizazz if you want, but I have no idea what that is.

And I or anyone else would know or care why you threw in the ghost is because......??  You threw in the ghost and with it a theorycrafted strat, a crappy one at that, and now you're wondering why I have no respect for that reply in particular.

They could make drones anti-armor if they wanted to.  Why would it matter from a game design point of view if an anti-armor unit is a light tank or not?  I still fail to see your point why a hover light tank can be an anti-armor unit but not a unit that was a hover bike in SC1 but could just as easily be made into a hover light tank in SC2.  M136 AT4 is the standard anti-tank missile used by infantry, so does it mean the marine should really be the anti-armor unit?
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On this one I actually don't really disagree to be completely honest.  As I said, you could really call it anything, but it is the cobra in SC2 for now.  I only bring up vulture to draw contrast between having move-and-shoot but slow ground speed vs stop-and-shoot with very high ground speed.  Since vulture is the fastest unit in all of SC, there is no better example.

First of all, is the gay unit movement speed limiting pseudo-formation thing from War3 confirmed to be in SC2?  They couldn't come up with anything better?  Well, anyway, so your saying that the move-and-shoot would be a useful and valid mechanic when running away and when the anti-armor role of cobras don't matter one bit?  Yes, please do think of more.  <--- And this isn't me trying to be difficult, that was a genuine request, belive it or not, whatever.  But since you seem to be way more enthusiastic about the cobra than I am, you are much more likely to come up with something before I do.

No, because I said there would be a role change.  You can bring back anything, but you don't have to keep anything as they were in SC1.

Wow really?  Sure didn't hear you voicing your "spot on" impression on the warp-in mechanic early on when people were confused as hell and all.  With your high post count and all, I would've thought you would've clarified everything for everyone else more than a few times.  In fact, I think I even kinda remember a thread where you didn't sound so sure about it, let me do some digging on that later.  But anyway, my whole point?  You think you are high above everyone else and you're extremely impressed with your own accomplishments(go read you own "Do you hate Paragon" thread, it starts with a long list of kissing your own ass, need I explain more?), but many people post great ideas and make great discoveries but no one makes a big deal about it like you do.  No one likes your attitude around here, why do you think you have such a low power level, especially compared to your post count?  I have personally never powered you down before, but I've powered you up plenty of times, yet this is the result.

Read the above paragraph, it kinda all tie in as one anyway.

What is this, read partial quote day?  You brought up the "reapers ain't vultures" thing many times before all this, some earlier in this thread and some elsewhere.  I much rather they bring back Apple that was good in place of Orage that appear to suck like hell.  Is "shit" not allowed here?  I almost never say "f*ck," not even bleeped out.  But I say use the words "ass," "damn," and "bitch" very often, "shit" much less often although much more actual spoken language.  If "shit" is now allowed I apologize sc2forums.

Although obviously not completely so, dragoons and hydras in good number are much more "all-purpose" than anything Terran, muta is another good example in the right situation, and carrier vs noobs -_-;;.  Since theorycrafting is stupid, I reference SC1.  Terran does indeed seem to be a lot better mobility wise in SC2, which is one of the main reasons why I'm very happy and pleased with Terran development so far.  And no I didn't forget dropships, I mentioned the tank drop.  You can't use the dropship in place of marching out normally, for two reasons.  One, because dropships themselve take up food and you can't have enough for all of your troops and have enough combat units.  And two, because when caught during transport the Terran would lose the fight on equal terms 90% of the time.  Terran units rely on good formation(unit placement and distribution) but also need to be ready to siege or stim at a moment's notice.  The Terran army is quite worthless and trashy when used in a click-and-send manner of play.

It is looking very hopeful for Terran in SC2 so far.  Back then, the biggest tool for a secondary assault was just the tank drop, now there seem to be more options.

I've already explained this about two paragraphs up, where I mentioned dropships.  Dropships take up food, Terran base defense rely on units(which take up food), Terran army rely on a good mix of units more so than the other races, and this is more food.  You just don't have too much spare food to put into many dropships for hauling big squads around.  But like I said, it seems it would be much better this around for Terran, I agree with you on that.

It is a weakness of Terran in particular.  Terran has limited static-D or automated base defense.  While those are not the be all end all in base defense, they buy you time.  Terran players are faced with the task of trying to balance units put into base defense and units used for assaults on the enemy.  Terran also have a harder time of quickly dividing its forces and moving to the hotspot quickly because the reliance on unit synergy and the need to ready fighting positions.  Zerg can just zip around since everything is fast and burst unit production is also fast, and Protoss have cannons which are all-purpose and a couple of hi-temps can also slow down light assaults considerably.

Believe what you will on that, but it's pretty common knowledge among Koreans who pay any attention to pro games, which is like a lot of Koreans.  The commentators make reference to the Terran's one-shot on a regular basis, such as when a Terran player isn't doing so well "but don't forget there is always the Terran one-shot, and that can always be very deadly and turn the tide of the game."

Why?  Because it's game ending, it's that strong when done right and pulled off successfully.  It's very hard to handle when the Terran momentum is at its height.  If one person just need one clear shot because he can knock out that fast jabbing skinny bitch in a single punch why wouldn't he just look for his chance to land it once?  It's not really like the Terran doesn't do anything at all like you think, but it is the true strength of Terran so it makes more sense to push for it in most cases.  But I don't really expect you to know or understand this, 99% of the people I've seen on many different forums don't properly understand the game-flow of SC1 and what options are available to different races at different timings in a game.

That's perfectly fine, it's up to the individual and the situation at hand.  There is no golden rule that says Terran players have to get vultures every game.  I merely mentioned their advantages.

Go read the thread about suggestions on new Zerg mechanics, and search for my idea of "Genetic Code Index."  I explained what timing rushes are there.  Basically tanks are relatively useless and not very scary between the time of putting down the first factory and the completion of siege tech research.  And around that timing, it's still early to march out with tanks, but you don't want the opponent's economy to go unchecked, so you use vultres who can get that done quick.  You don't need very many vultures, which is why it's an advantage because your riding the same tech but you bought yourself a brand new assault option.  Vultures are also very good against Protoss mid-game.

Yup, reapers will do just fine, lovely little guys.  I'm really not too excited about the time charge/grenade/bomb thing(what IS the real name for that?), but I'm sure will find some interesting uses for them later on when the game is more complete.

Yes, Zerg is the best.

Protoss require less intense micro than Terran or Zerg to be successful because there are less units and each unit is much more resilient compared to Terran or Zerg.  Zerg require less discipline due to the race's immense flexibility.  Zerg can be played more loosely because the player can quickly make up for minor mistakes or adapt to different situations quickly.  Zerg can quickly produce batches of replacement units quickly so every minor defeat at the frontlines is far less devastating.  Terran units are quite easily killed just like Zerg when compared to Protoss, yet they do not have the ability to pump out quick replacements, so when a Terran position fall it falls quickly and hard.  Which is why I said great discipline(which means also patience) is required to play Terran successfully at higher levels, because Terran needs to judge and analyze situations more carefully, more so than Protoss or Zerg.  Terran really can't afford to make hastey decisions because they have neither the most resilient units nor the best unit production capabilities.  Terran players need to be able to tell when taking a loss at an expo is not a disadvantage.  At lower levels anything can work, but against more skilled opponents Terran has a stricter style of play.

Whew~ that's everything.  I can finally go get some cigarettes.  Hope you're satisfied Paragon, you kept me away from my nicotine.  Sorry if there are numerous spelling or grammatical errors, I can't be bothered to check that now, I gotta go get cigarettes.

EDIT:  Hmmm, some posts got in the way between the time I started the reply, made dinner, ate dinner, and came back to finish.  The atmosphere here has turned to the strange everyone vs Paragon or at least it sure seem like people are edging me on to attack Paragon.  Just for the record, I don't hate Paragon at all.  I always post what I think, and my attitude and position toward something in most cases pertain only to the post or the thread.  I don't really care who posted what, it's what is posted that I give a damn about and argue for or against.  OK, now I really need to go get cigarettes.

 

and zerg have guardians and protoss have colossi/had reavers. :O every race has a unit that deals high damage holy f**k.

Yes cover for the moderator who is being a dick and dont do s**t about the moderator who posts porn and racist comments in the same post/picture (JBL) I notice that picture is still up. http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/index.php?topic=1984.0
You can sugar coat shit as much as you want. It's still shit. How you phrase something doesn't matter when the intent is the same.

And it's not my fault people have dumb ideas. Oh sorry I mean all those ideas can perhaps work in fantasy land or noob city, whichever, where people let you build up to 200 supply or more and then walk up to their front door with a big ass army.

I was describing my thought process. And then I said that the ghost is not a pivotal part of the example so the example is the same without the ghost. I COULD have said "you're taking the most insignificant part of the example and capitalizing on it to find a weakness. anyone who thinks about it for more than a second should be able to realize that you don't need the ghost there and the rest of the units should be able to do the job fine." But I didn't. I was being nice about it.

You do that. He's better at it.

Having a debate about something and having a petty argument (which that statement refers to) is completely different. But hey, if you want to say all arguments/debates/discussions on the internet are retarded then why the f**k are you on a forum for a game that has not been released where a good 90% of the posts are arguments/debates/discussions. By your logic just about everyone here (including you) is retarded.

oh good, remy posted. i'll read that one now.

 

Wow.. I need to get out of the line of fire.. Inocsent bystandard walking though... Don't hurt me...
*Runs away*

 

You said it was one of the strengths of the terrans. I say they all have that as a strength so saying that one of the terran strengths is firepower is like saying terrans have units that shoot. a zerg strength is firepower and a protoss strength is firepower. I never said that you said only terrans had firepower. I was saying that it's a strength of all the races.

everyone b***hes at me for belittling people so when you do it I'm going to b***h at you.

Use some common sense. You took one insignificant part of the example and capitalized it to find fault. I said that the ghost doesn't matter to the example(though you have not gotten to that part of my post yet in this part of your post).

Look closely. I replied to this post and then saw you had another post (#122) and replied to that post in the same post. So, all the replies to that post are below the replies to the prior post. So, at the time of posting that I had not read #122. I even said "as of yet" to rule in the possibility that you would explain it later. As for pizazz, note that I said "It's like saying..." thats a common phrase said before giving an example. And your reaction to it is the same as my reaction to you first saying momentum. As for not talking about it in my previous post. It was not an important part of your post so I didn't think it needed explanation at that point since I could just think of something that you could mean it to be and it wouldn't change anything else in the post. In your next post you made a big deal out of the momentum of terrans so it was better to get your definition of it rather that rely on what I thought you might mean by it.

How would you know if it's a crappy strat or not (take out the ghost by the way, I already have) have you tried this strat on starcraft 2? no? hmm well maybe it does work and maybe it doesn't. If it does work I'll enjoy beating people with it that much more.

They also put anti-tank missiles on pickup trucks. So yes, the possibilities are near-endless for what vehicle someone could put an anti-tank weapon on. But try to find an industrialized nation that uses pickup trucks as anti-tank vehicles. Based on their size they do not lend themselves to have enough armor to survive long enough to be effective against a tank. Same goes for a bike/hover bike. They are small vehicles that could not realistically have enough armor to get close enough to a tank to deal real damage to it before being blasted to pieces. Also, infantry use anti-tank weapons in urban environments. StarCraft 2 does not have this type of environment. It is not supported by its game play. You would have to have units that could hide in buildings or alleys or rocks to have a useful anti-tank infantry unit. Since nothing hides in starcraft 2, it is best to have an anti-tank unit be able to stand up to the punishment that would be receiving from the units they are meant to counter. So it shouldn't go to a marine and it shouldn't go to a bike. And don't play the "it's a game realism doesn't matter" card because your argument is using things from reality too.

I was assuming stalkers are something other than light units. They aren't infantry and they are dragoon-like so I would guess medium. Being anti-armored could mean large and/or medium units. So the fact that cobras are anti-armor would matter. But whatever. I could give the immortal example but then you could say "well the hardened shield could be activated by cobra attack" so I won't go there. Lets say siege tanks are about to be attacked by ultralisks (yes, I know we have no idea whether or not they will be in the game but every other example is just a theory so why the f**k not. for all I care it could be a large zerg ground unit with melee attack or even better, ranged attack and not called ultralisk). If any ground unit that the terrans in starcraft 2 just sat there and blasted at the ultralisks they would die even if they did micro unless you had significantly more of those units than there were ultralisks. So, you would lose your tanks and whatever ground units were defending it. Cobras could continually run away from the ultralisks dealing damage to them the whole time. They wouldn't get touched by the ultralisks and the ultralisks would die. And don't say something like "you could just use air against the ultralisks" maybe they killed your air. maybe it was scourge.

Sure they could do whatever they want. But nothing else that returned has a changed role. Since they haven't done it yet, why would they start now.

Yes, I'm sure I was telling people what it was. I remember doing it over and over. Also, I joined this forum in june so I wouldn't be surprised if someone posted about it before me.

Thats incredibly off topic. Why even bring it up here? I know I didn't start any discussion of it here. I made that thread because my power level went to -4 when I wasn't even here for over a week. And you JUST made a big deal about two things you did and I still have no idea why.

No one? Wrong. Lets pull out the ol' power up log
"keeping it real"
"Fascists like paragon make this society a better one."
"Extreme sarcasm used with skill."
"For showing the nubz that you are right "
"Clever guy, Solid member, Good contributions."
"Paragon does extensive research in her/his topics. Deserves it"
"I like arrogant people, being one myself."
"cause."
"The Reaver is a rip-off of..."
"For incorporating hitler into a good post. I'm still laughing."
"cause i feel like it "
"having sexy girl in your avatar"
"for the trouble."
HMM seems like everyone DOESN'T hate my attitude.

Read the above paragraph, it kinda all tie in as one anyway. None of those are from you by the way so you haven't powered me up since august 5th when the power up/down log was put in place. And as far as I can tell it was put in place because my power level went fro 7 or 8 to -4 in around a 10 day span when I wasn't even here. And I was still being powered up 2 or 3 more times from zeratul11 for the contest prize. So thats between 13 and 15 power downs for absolutely no reason.

You're right I did say that... a week ago in this thread. Did you go back that far before making your post?

Goliath

Referencing things in starcraft to things in starcraft 2 is just as bad as theory crafting. Yes, I've done both but then I don't think theory crafting is as dumb as you think it is.

Obviously I would scout ahead and make sure I'm not walking into a clusterf**k. I'm glad you always just assume I'm one of the worst players ever in your posts. I do check where the enemy has their army before I attack. I'm not as dumb as you seem to think. And I've never hit the 200 food limit so if I need more dropships I'll just make more depots.

So I guess for you it would be too far of a stretch to believe that someone would constantly keep watch on what the enemy is doing... When you know where the enemy is going and what it is using you can get the upper hand by arriving there before they do. I for one do not fumble around in the dark hoping the enemy army isn't lurking right next door. I get multiple comsats and scout with wraiths constantly. Good intelligence wins battles. No intelligence is a quick path to complete failure.

There is not just one way to play a race. With all the units and combinations available theres a variety of choices. Not your by-the-book-this-is-the-only-way-terran-is-played bulls**t.

RIGHT I forgot you're the starcraft God and everything you say about starcraft is the absolute truth. I'm just some dumba** who doesn't know s**t. I must say, pulling out the "I'm right because I know what I'm talking and you're just another dumb person" card is one of the absolute worst arguments. If you weren't a mod people would be saying "wow he's an arrogant ****" and power you down. And you never seemed to catch onto the fact that I quoted you. Want to explain why you said "what kind of boring race would it be without some options on the side?" before?
Anyways, there's a bajillion ways to win or lose the game. But you probably won't listen to me because you're the starcraft GOD and i'm just a lowly peasant.

And yet there is a golden rule about the "terran one-shot"... no, it doesn't work that way. You either get a golden rule or you get none.

I've seen vultures get killed far to quickly to really be of any use in many many situations. Siege tanks are not useless in that short time period between when they are produced and when siege tech is researched. While they shouldn't be attacking, they are able to deal out SOME damage if you are attacked. But the time between getting your first tank and getting siege tech is not very long if you do them at the same time.

And now the terrans can get an additional production queue on their buildings which increases their ability to rebuild. And in starcraft you could move your production buildings closer to the front lines which I've seen many players do. That way when you lose a unit its replacement is not too far behind. In some games I've moved almost all of my barracks and factories up past the middle of the map and fortified the position with turrets and bunkers and siege tanks that had been my attack force along with tanks and goliaths and marines coming from the barracks and factories. The game was over soon after because every unit i lost was replaced very quickly. Of course this is not the only way to play and I've played many different ways.



Most of that had little or nothing to do with the cobra...

 

OMFG to much shit to read, let me brake this down quickly. the current Cobra sucks ass. it's to slow and the current terrans have no need for another anti infentry like the vulture was. The Cobra's role is needed but the unit sucks there fore its not goung to be useful even if it's fighting what it's ment to beat out. The cobra is anti Heavy-units. U guys are going off the subject and no one wants to read all that Mum-bo-jum-bo!

 

I actually quite welcome bitching. By your own words right there, everyone does have a problem with you. But like I said, feel free to bitch at me or power me down, don't use my mod status as an excuse. I've expressed my dissatisfaction on more than one occasion when I felt someone was tripping over my mod status and couldn't say what they want against me or is nicer to me then they would have otherwise. But overall, the great majority of the time, I see people just reading and reply to my posts just for the post itself.

Don't blame me for you own fault in mentioning the ghost. Without the ghost, the rest is theory. Anything CAN be a possibility in SC2. If we play your CAN game, it goes nowhere. What's my common sense got to do with a mistake that your made?

I referred to the suggested use of ghost. Ghost was mentioned, deal with it. Like I said, I don't feel like playing the CAN game, it's pointless.

Why would I play the "it's a game realism doesn't matter" card when I brought up the AT4? And you are incorrect in that the AT4 is mainly used for urban warfare. In fact, it is very dangerous to fire from a confined environment which is why there is a variant version(AT4 CS) designed for that use. So now should marines be anti-armor? And although I see little point in the vulture vs cobra debate, the vulture doesn't have to be a bike in SC2.

So if you run from lings, cobra's role would be anti-infantry? You have no choice or active control over what units are chasing you and fired on by your cobras, which take away the reason of getting cobras for anti-armor. That is situational and not strategic.

Why are you quoting yourself and replying to it? I have powered you up around 5 times total, and that's personally a lot on one person for me. I have powered down one person once, and it wasn't you. I don't owe you any power ups, you don't have any recent power ups from me because I didn't see anything from you that made me feel you were deserving of one. And don't assume power downs are for no reason because they are done to you, 13~15 PDs sure are a lot to be just from one hater or just people randomly doing so. There could be newer members who read your older posts and powered you down, but whatever, I don't know the reason behind those power downs and realistically neither would you.

I don't post without reading every single post in a thread. Even if I do pick up late on a particular thread, I go back and read from the first post, even if there are more than 10 pages.

I know you're(or were) a big goliath fan, but goliaths aren't nearly as good vs ground as goons or hydras. AG performance is much more important than AA, having better AA than AG just make the unit specialized.

You already admit you did the same. Theorycrafting gets pretty stupid most of the time.

And I'm glad that you just assume what I assume. I've never called you dumb and on the contrary have said that I believe you to be an intelligent individual on more than one occasion. I'm absolutely astonished by your supposed skill in SC in that you are so good at scouting that you never get ambushed or get caught unprepared, when the top Korean progamers even have that trouble from time to time. I'm the dumbass and you're the SC god. Also, if 200 food limit is the only thing keeping you from getting more units, why wouldn't you just always keep getting more units? The fact is, just because you're not at 200 doesn't mean you can whore out on dropships. Resources are also a factor.

Like I just said, you're the SC god. You play the perfect game without fail when even progamers fall to such tactics.

Believe what you will, there is nothing more I can tell you. But it sure isn't the only way to play Terran, but it is the main strength.

Right. Thanks for pulling out the "I'm right because I know what I'm talking and you're just another dumb person" card for me. Let me go ahead and put your words right in my mouth and call you dumb. And have you cry about my arrogance is really funny, coming from you of all people. And grats on your newfound psychic powers, good thing you can tell what people would do if this and that, awesome powers I must say. Is this also where I say something like "pulling out the 'only if you weren't a mod' card is immature and idiotic? Options are options, main strengths are main strengths. If you for one choose to always go with the secondary side options, that's you're choice. But there is a nation full of SC fans with the average understanding of such game-flow. Don't cry about it if you don't understand it and me mentioning it sounds like arrogance to you. Power me down, go ahead be my guest, that goes for everyone.

Who said anything about Terran's one-shot at mid-game being some golden rule? It is what the Terran is capable of, just like muta or lurker is available at early tier 2 timing for Zerg. And "you either get a golden rule or you get none" doesn't really make sense, but that's not important.

I've seen vultures get used with far too much skill to absolutely rock in many many situations. I've already pointed you to where I explained about timing rushes. If you do not even understand the timing vulnerability for Terran during the transition from tier 1 to tier 2, don't argue what you don't know.

I think we're just playing your quote 'til your head explode game.

 

Ummm... I think one might be able to bring to Paragon's attention that Remy's 53 power level was PROBABLY not the result of individuals accidentally clicking owerup: instead of owerdown: 53 times.

@Paragon, if ppl really felt negatively about him then why give him power UPS? They'd just leave him alone if they were scared to tackle a moderator.

Illogical.

 

fighting over the internet is stupid
fighting over the internet in what looks like a debate is even worse........
but i think remy won it.

my only dislike with the cobra is taht it needs a shell over th top, something that makes it look a little bit more aerodynamic and, more impornatntly, makes it look a little like the vulture.

The strafe thing is so good becuase the micro options ahve been opend up now.

 

holy crap! GOLD?!? Where you been ese? long time no see!