Carrier Escorts

Until proven otherwise I am going to assume the Archon doesn't have Power Overwhelming, you could mention splash damage though given the other abilities on your list.

By that logic thogh every unit in Sc1 has some kind of "ability." The only thing you can judge as an "ability" as far as this debate is concerned is active abilities because the only interaction passive abilities need is clicking the upgrade.

 

Yeah, counting the Dark Templar's and Observer's permanent Cloak as an ability might be taking it a bit far, but I'd still count Charge, Hardened Shields, the Colossus' cliff walking and especially the Phase Prism's Psionic Matrix as abilities. That leaves the Dark Templar, Archon, Warp Ray and Observer as units without abilities, as opposed to the Zealot, Dragoon, Archon, Dark Templar, Shuttle, Scout and Observer, and, depending on how you classify it, the Reaver and Carrier, of StarCraft1.

 

The Twilght Archon has the Feedback ability (dark archong in SC1). Don't remember where i found it. Maybe someone else also knows this and it's able to provide more info.

 

Feedback was removed from the Archon quite a whiles ago. Now they have no abilities.

 

Ohh I see then, just wanted to help tnx for info. I really think they should make the Twilght Archon a spellcaster also, at least 1 spell, cause, it is, in fact, the combination of the Archon and the Dark Archon... now it is just an Archon, no DarkTemplar traits

 

At the moment the unit is no longer the "Twilight Archon" it's just the "Archon."

 

Charge, Hardened Shield, and perma-cloak, are innate MECHANICS. Even though Charge requires research, it is not unlike a next gen version of the zealot legs upgrade. Phase Prism's pylon matrix is a MODE afaik, just like a Siege Tank switching between tank and siege mode. It is two separate units with different stats/mechanics/functionality tied to a single visual and unit name, you stay in one or the other perma- until you want to switch back.

By that kind of reasoning, movement speed upgrades, attack range upgrades, summon archon, detection, just being an air unit, are all abilities. I see no point in classifying them as such except only to make the single argument that there are abilities up the yin yang all over SC2. Regardless, things like perma-cloak existed even in SC1, so giving non-caster units abilities doesn't make SC2 un-SC-like in any way whatsoever.

 

What is an escort? Is it the same as an Interceptor? Or something stronger that can do more damage?
If you search on "Escorts" on google, you will find some, but I don't recommend it.

 

Escorts in this case are basicly smaller frigate-like ships that help protect the Carrier and do some extra damage in the process.

 

Ok, I'll back up a bit. The StarCraft1 Protoss units that had genuine, bona fide abilities were the High Templar, Dark Archon, Arbiter and Corsair. In StarCraft2, the Protoss have the High Templar, Stalker, Nullifier, Phoenix and Mothership. That's a pretty good balance. A caster for each tier and a couple others just with their own ability that works off a cooldown. Giving the Carrier Escorts starts to disrupt this. Now, half their fighting force has an ability. It might just be me, but that's getting a tad excessive.
Also, out of all the units they could have given an extra ability to, why the Carrier? It was such a great and independent unit, but now they've given it an ability to warp a whole lot of Escorts in. If this had to be given to a unit, I'd say it should be given to the Mothership. It's the one they've got to protect, not the Carrier. That's not to say that the Carrier's not important, it's just that the Mothership is so much more important.

 

You're forgetting the Phoenix. I don't know if you're counting every last little mechanic, if so, something like the Warp Ray would qualify as well.

I think you got the scale of the entire big picture mixed up a bit. The Carriers command Interceptors and Escorts to protect it and do its bidding. The Mothership on the other hand, have Carriers and the rest of the Protoss forces to protect it and do its bidding. It's supposed to be a floating Protoss city after all.

I still only see people trying to argue against an apparent gameplay benefit with lore and "feel." The only person so far to really make a sensible argument against it based on gameplay reasons is 10-Neon. You should never try to justify gameplay and balance with lore and realism, it's silly.

 

After thinking about the Escorts again I still would rather go with the suggestion I made earlier in this thread. Give the Carrier another option as far as building ships goes. Thats basicly all Escorts are but they have a continual cost. As for the ship to replace the Escorts mkay it a scarab-like interceptor. Make them build extemely fast while costing as much as an Interceptor (if not more, determined by balance of course). Since the scarab interceptors are kamakazies they would be one time and use and a constant drain on your minerals while providing an increase in damage output. Thats exactly what the Escorts do as of right now. The only difference would be that Carriers can still be effective without the scarabs and the scarabs would probably cost a little more on average than the Escorts for the damage done.

P.S. Remy while Lore may not directly affect gameplay and balance it needs to be given priority as well because while this game is being made with E-sports in mind it isn't being made only for that. Alot of people may never even play a normal melee game against other people while still playing Sc2 for its lore and map editor. To those things balance is irrelevant, just like lore is to e-sports. Without both though Sc2 won't feel as complete as Sc1.

 

I included the Phoenix. Also, that time I only included units with an active ability so the Warp Ray wouldn't be included.
Carriers still have the rest of the Protoss fleet to protect them. It's not as though everything except for the Carrier is escorting the Mothership and the lone Carriers require their own Escorts. It makes more sense for the Escorts to be given to the Mothership. Not only does it already have the ability to Warp In, but as you said, it's supposed to be a floating Protoss city. If anything out of the whole of the Protoss fleet needs an ability to Warp In Escorts, it's the Mothership.
LordKerwyn has covered the rest. I'd just like to add that even if there's something they can add to a particular team that would give a huge boost to their gameplay but goes against everything that team stands for, they should not add it. Gameplay needs to be based on lore.
About the LordKerwyn's Scarab-like ability, I feel that's getting a bit too close to giving the Carrier itself an attack. The Carrier itself is basically a defenceless hangar that requires other ships, the ships it's carrying, for attacking and defending. Giving the Carrier the ability to launch bombs would basically be giving it its own attack.

 

I agree game play needs to be based around lore. If WCIII wasn't based on lore the orcs could have brought machine guns to the party and mowed down those pesky elves summoning protoss to combat the undead from building a gundam. see if a game is not based on lore it can't hold it self up, it just becomes stupid and senseless.

I'm not saying that carriers with escorts doesn't make sense though. The carrier could just be harboring the escorts so that when needed the ship with little power or little fuel could come and escort the entire protoss fleet.

However I can't defend or criticize the escorts till I see what they really do. I would like them to actually have a purpose other than being a more powerful interceptor like taking damage for the carrier or doing extra damage to buildings.

 

Well I think they could use some tiny improvements but they look as good as their gona get from the way blizzard is. I like the idea of having stronger interceptors but as we all want I think they should be permanent if they cost you minerals really.

 

I don't like the escort thing, it seems kind of pointless. Adding abilities to every single unit isn't the answer. Just give the poor Carrier his 4 Interceptors back and move on. Starcraft II should stick with passive abilities on majority of the units, leaving casting to the casters.

 

but most abilities arent passive, the main passive abilities from SC1 that i can say off the top of my mind are the cloaking field from the arbiter and the purple goo from the devourer.

 

Eh, you're right, should have rephrased that.. I guess I just don't like the idea of having so many abilities; if you're going to give a unit an ability, atleast make it worthwhile. The Carrier escorts just seems like a way of justifying the removal of four Interceptors. Carriers are already a really unique unit.

 

Escorts are an awful idea, stick with the interceptors being in groups and giving the user the ability to send one group here or there. I like the idea of sending them somewheres far away from the carrier but if this was to happen there would have to be a negative impact of the interceptors such as limited time away before they run out of fuel.

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Thats just a part of the point there, the second is its gonna be un-worthy being called escorts from the start if from its basic objective is not acknowledged. At 1st I thought that the tempest were a much better concept having melee buzzers that replaced the old interceptors, and if it wouldve been given justice perhaps we couldve seen a different skill than the so called escorts w/c technically is just its upgrade skill turned to a clickable ability with limitted amount of time before it goes out lol

there are pro's though of having escorts as you wont have to buy thaty pricey amount of minerals to complete a carriers total capacity and another is a little microing chance for the interceptors that im really not sure of how will they make it possible.. but my question is: are the escorts temporary additional interceptors?