Can the Zealot dodge attacks?

I've read quite a number of comments on this thread and I agree with Fenix. Everyone is pretty much restating what was said above them.

As to the issue of taking damage during that closing of the distance, it simply doesn't make any sense. You're giving the Zealots this ability for a reason: to close the distance and get into a melee battle sooner while taking fire. Why would you then make them invincible to ranged fire for a specific distance?

If you wanted to say "oh, well, the Zealot is 'missed' by all attacks" then that would be different, but it still wouldn't fit. The Zealot is now meant to come upon an enemy, start taking fire, and instead of simply advancing at normal speed through that crossfire, they now step it up into an all out sprint to close that distance where they're taking extra fire. This, in itself, is their "dodging" of the attack.

I would say it's simply unfair for a melee unit to be able to close distance without being hurt. In that capacity, it's pretty much a ranged unit since it can start dealing damage without worrying about taking fire first.

So with that in mind it isn't plausible for the Zealot to be immune to 100% of attacks during any period of the game.

That would point you toward the argument that they should have a 30-40% "evade" chance for attacks, but this is also a burden that the game doesn't need to take on. If you have Zealots charging at a defensive line and there is a "chance" they might take the full damage, or a "chance" they might take none at all, you have now inserted variable outcomes into the game.

StarCraft is a game of certainty. If you send one Zealot after one Marine and the Marine doesn't run, the Marine dies. There's no 50/50 chance that the Zealot will miss its first thrust (thereby a 1/4 chance he will miss the first two, and a 1/8 chance he will miss three in a row) that might allow the Marine to survive even though the chances would be extremely low.

I don't want this to happen in StarCraft. I want the hit points and damages to be an absolute certainty as long as the attack is in effective range. The Dark Swarm was an exception to this rule but was acceptable because it was an effect rather than a unit attribute, it was effective 100% of the time and had no chance element, and was not effective against melee units which gave it a perfectly counterable option. The Defensive Matrix used by the Science Vessel is also an exception to this, but once again, it was not a unit attribute but rather an effect that reduced the damage taken by a unit, and was not offered up to chance whether it would be hit or not. It simply took a set amount of damage and then ceased.

Let's not turn this into a card game where there is a "40% chance" of something occurring, or you have to roll the dice to see if your unit dies or not.

 

i see your point,and i think it's very valid,but seriously:why not ??

i mean,the charge distance is very small(i'm sure you have watched the protoss gameplay video),and with maybe with the exception fot he Reaper,ANY ranged unit could start hitting a Zealot before he starts his charge.it wouldn't make it imba,it would merely add a bit more of surviability to the unit.

 

I don't think the zealots need another ability to dodge physical attacks they're fine like they are. giving the the ability to dodge 1 out of 10 attacks or even 1 out of 20 attacks would be too much of an upgrade for 100 min and 100 gas. the only way I see this happening is if they have an expensive building with a bunch of expensive up grades.

 

I'd rather the DT get dodge than the zealots because of a caption. DTs had NO special upgrades in SC including foot speed. Zealots can already reach range units, DTs have nothing but their cloaks, although that is a huge deal, I can see them getting a 5% dodge rate. Or something to that affect, countering the sniper snipe, instead of giving them a spell that does critical damage matching the ghost almost step for step.

 

Uh guys. Zealots are the first attacking unit for Protoss but if you look at their stats they match up better with the second attacking units then most first. The only thing that could stop them was Air or microing Long ranged units. The second option is gone now with the charge because the zealot gets in close and bam its over. Going invulnerable might be excessive.

 

I think that dodge on DT makes more sense since they have to go though that intense test of stealth to become a templar, and it would make sense that they can dodge some attacks.
Also, I think that blizzard has nerfed the speed of charge already, if you watch the protoss gameplay video, and then the video of the mothership using cloak they seem slower, and they dont use charge when they are in range, they just use it as soon as they can see the units that they are going to attack.

 

Once again, Starcraft should have no element of chance, period. It would change the entire gameplay.

Roll the dice to see if you win or lose! So a 5, 10, or 20% chance of any attack missing is stupid.

Either 0% or 100% because of an ability. The only other choice is to reduce damage through armor and/or an ability.

 

jon you are too fixated about your own ideals of what starcraft "should" be. there's already chance involved in starcraft1, shooting at units on higher ground or under doodads has a 30% chance of missing. nothing should be absolutely black or white.

having said this, i wouldn't want to see zealots having a %chance to dodge though

 

Well that's what I mean. A doodad is technically an "ability" becuase you must micro a unit into a specific area. And I also mentioned cliffs either on this post or another as being an exception.

But if units have the ability to do it without the aid of positioning or a spell, then you've just got a card game on your hands.

I was simply saying that I don't want to be constantly figuring statistics and allowing for that "luck" element to come into the actual clash of units rather than just lucky timing.

 

yea that's a good point, doodads and high grounds needs to be active taken advantage to be useful, which would require tactics and decision making, unlike a natural passive bonus on a unit which is there all the time and you don't have to do any thing to "earn" it

 

Well it's true and in the long run as little of the game's outcome should rely on chance.
No one says that because their zerglings hatched on the other side of the hatchery means that they lost the battle because they got there just a tad too late.

 

Not to reiterate what was said but 30% chance always no matter what is completely different then positioning your units to engage the enemy in such a way to get a a 30% miss chance. For instance certain games I have taken my zealots up against the Zerg. They rush-teched Hydras. And boy do I mean rushed. They didn't build any defense or starting zerglings. But it was a relatively large map with 4 spawns and I got unlucky on my picking which one to scout. By the time I got my 6 starting Zealots over there he had enough Hydras up to kill them. However to the south were some Trees so I ran back then went straight south to force his units to be north just outside of the trees(go attack one unit at a time!).

He would have beat me in a straight match but I managed to use my superior skill/knowledge to help my zeals survive to kill him. See the difference between me doing that and just having Zealots have that 30% miss chance always? I know you don't endorse Zealots having 30% miss chance but I think everyone needs to know the difference between what we had then(SC1) and what we should have now(SC2).

 

2 psi 160 hp and 16 atack with relativly high speed, and the charge for a basic unit thats on the limit wright there, no need to add anything else

 

not to throw this off topic...but this and other threads seem to mention units stats. Anyone got a forum link to a thread dedicated to this (updated ) ? I thought it was @ the blizzcon one but o boy

 

There is starcraft 2 armory webpage, dont know if its up to date but its got a lot of stats price hp and stuff like that
http://www.sc2armory.com/

 

I don't recall ever seeing any type of "miss chance" not associated with a cliff or doodad.

We've already covered those as acceptable exceptions to the rule. My point is that I don't want individual units that have inherent abilities to avoid attacks based on "chance," whether it's a fixed percentage or not.

 

Everyone seems to think that being able to dodge attacks while charging would make the zealot imba. but I don't get why would say this. If you watch a video of the zealot charing it lasts for what 1 second or less? Honestly I don't see how much could really happen in this time besides the zealot dodgeing maybe 10 damage and while that can make a diference it seems perfectly fair to implament this into the game. With that said I do think the zealot being able to dodge every attack would be a little imba. like if a siege tank shelled them and they dodged that that would be a large differnece but for a a couple of marines to miss once I don't see a problem with this at all. Imo the zealot should be able to dodge certain attacks while charging becuase it makes sense and just proves that the protoss are the strongest race. (I'm not trying to say there the best race)

 

I see a big problem with it. Read the above arguments.

 

I have indeed read all of the above agurments when I posted this but my opinion still stands how it is and I believe it would work out fine.

 

So you're willing to play a game in which a unit has the inherent ability to avoid attacks. There's a 20% chance that this unit won't be hit each time a unit fires.

Therefore there is a 1/25000 chance that your unit won't be hit for the first 10 attacks. Thereby allowing that unit, by itself, to kill many more units than it was intended to.

While that number may seem small, it is still possible, and will happen eventually. So there are going to be games (since so many attacks occur) in which out-of-the-ordinary attacks that were doomed to fail will actually succeed because of this ability.

The only way this should be enacted is as a castable ability from a support unit (like Dark Swarm) where 100% of attacks are ineffective.

The only other way this could work and maintain the original style of balance of StarCraft and not turn this into WC3 or a card game is to have the unit reduce the amount of hit points taken. You cannot make a unit have even a chance of being immune to attacks, whether or not it makes a difference.

I used this same logic in the Terran Veterancy thread, but no one listened there either. It's a simple matter of statistics and mathematics. People say it won't affect gameplay because the effect is so small. Then why include it in the game? It will only cause problems. Either it will end up being more powerful than you expect, or it will simply be an annoyance.