Blizzard DotA

I fully agree. Except that there are no such mapmakers, so the bypassing thing is completely pardonable. We're viewing the same thing from two different aspects - you are negative towards Blizzard, I'm negative towards the mappers.

 

You don't think there are any good mappers out there?

 

No. Feel free to prove me wrong.

 

Have you ever played Split TD? Or Hero Attack?

 

Yes.

 

I'm sure our resident mapper would enjoy a critique of Hero Attack, then. What did you not like about Split TD?

 

There are no map makers that have made maps just as good, if not better than blizzard maps? You really believe this? ... There are plenty of excellent map makers out there, such as Mephs, Chirus, Bounty, Eiviyn, etc. Unfortunately the majority of the maps created by these map makers are not recognized due to the fact that they never get enough popularity to get played.

Heck one of the blizzard maps is called left 2 die! Guess what? Before blizzard released their left 2 die map, there was another left 2 die map created by the map maker Mephs. Mephs' map was way better than blizzard's map, but never became popular enough to be popular. Then blizzard came along last fall and wanted to release a map called left 2 die, so threatened to delete Mephs' map. Mephs later went on to create smashcraft, which is arguebly one of the best maps on battlenet.

I have an idea! Why don't you try spending months creating a high quality map and then try to get it played on battlenet, only to find out it won't get played no matter how good it is since it isn't popular? Maybe if you try things from the map maker perspective your opinion will change!

Also, I'm not 'negative towards blizzard'. I think that sc2 as a ladder game is good (except colossus and infestors QQ ), the ladder system is excellent, the artwork is also excellent, and the galaxy editor is far better than I ever expected (of course it has several bugs and missing features, I try to inform blizzard about them but they never fix them ). The main problem with sc2 since the launch is the custom map system. Yes there have been significant improvements with the system (implementation of chat channels, creation of categories, adding of search bar to find games, changing popularity to be hours based, the change in how you navigate custom games, implementation of up and coming, etc.), but the changes for the most part have been very slow and have not been satisfactory enough to support a thriving map making community. The incentive to make maps remains low because unpopular maps still rarely get played and it is difficult to get games started (but thanks to chat channels, it is atleast possible, rather than completely impossible like it was in late 2010).

Honestly, this blind blizzard fanboy/fangirlism isn't helpful and harms the map making community in the long run. If there are problems with the custom map system they need to be identified, discussed and addressed. The problem with the current custom map system is that it gives practically 0 visibility to unpopular maps, which makes it difficult for mapmakers to test maps, makes it difficult for players to find new maps, and makes it difficult for well-made maps to become popular (let alone played). The map maker community was decimated in 2010 after a large number of very skilled map makers quit due to the aweful custom map system (and the remaining map makers, including myself, worked on their maps less due to the low incentive to create maps). Yes things have improved since then, but the map making community is still far smaller than it could have been if a better custom map system was implemented.

 

I believe sc2 as a ladder game is ridiculous for the 3 years spent in dev.
I am negative towards blizzard.
The artwork needs to be better, to signify each race imo as its own.
Why doesn't blizzard ever fix them? Easy to fix? Ya. How many employees? thousands? A lot of resources too. Wow.
Changes are slow because blizzard is a retard. (retardation...slow??? anyone??). Fail mapmakers that dont change obvious flaws....blizzard not changing obvious flaws....anyone?
for the most part i agree with Equation but kuvasz has some good points esp the one about mapmaker abandoning their map.
Imagine from the point of view of us normal folk. we see a promising game, the maker promises improvements. None are made. We are RAGING.

 

I'm probably too biased against custom maps to continue this discussion with adequate depth. Just note that I didn't say 100% of the mappers are bad, so don't take my post as an attack on good and successful mappers.

The current custom map list is far from perfect, but it's understandable why they chose this method. The concept of survival of the fittest ensures that newish players are introduced to maps that are played the most and thus can be considered good. However, this also bars new maps from becoming popular. I think a compromise could be reached by resetting the popularity ratings every 2 weeks because this would not only sieve out bad maps and allow good ones to stay at the top (because their regular players return to them), but would also enable new maps to shine, assuming the mapper uses a portal to gather feedback and the initial stock of players required to climb the popularity charts.

I play custom maps with friends from around page 10 as well, and I have yet to find a map that I distinctly remember and frequently play. One exception is photon cycles and I think one of the reasons for this is that it's straight-forward. 99.99% of the maps I try are either too complicated and not userfriendly at all, plain boring, or both, which is the author's fault, which goes back to my initial statement.

ps I obviously missed the predecessor of L2D, which would probably go into the 0.01% of exceptions

 

I probably gave blizzard too much credit in my last post with respect to sc2 as a competitive game since they 'balance' the game by pidgeonholing all the races into single strategies for all the matchups (MMVG in TvP, Roach-Infestor in ZvZ, Marine-Tank-Medivac in TvZ, etc.).

To be fair, a lot of map makers abandoned their maps because of the custom map system. When you spend months on a good map and have difficulty getting people to even test it (so you can improve it), then that discourages people from making maps.

Not really sure why you are implying that I don't have the view of 'us normal folk'. Are mapmakers not human or something?

You said that there are no map makers that make maps as good as blizzard maps or bettter (and blizzard maps aren't even that great). How is that not synonymous with all map makers being bad?

The idea that good maps become popular, and maps can become more popular if the map makers improve upon them is good. Unfortunately, the custom map system doesn't work this way. Here is how the custom map system works:
- People play popular maps because 1. they have good visibility and are easy to access, 2. their lobbies fill up quickly and 3. there is the false impression that popular maps = good and that the popularity system is working.
- People don't play unpopular maps because they have low visibility, their lobbies never fill up, and a large number of unpopular maps are bad, so people don't want to risk playing an unpopular map when there is a good chance it is bad.
- As a result, people continue to play popular maps and do not play unpopular maps. The result is a near permanent status quo.

They already do this and it doesn't work. Do you know why? Because an hour after the reset, a popular map like Marine Arena will have finished several games (that people started playing before the reset). As a result, the former popular maps reach the front page almost immediately after the reset. In addition, because the popular maps have had so much visibility for so long (i.e. ridiculous advertising advantage over less popular maps), more people will know about them, so they will rise quickly to the top of the list and overtake less well-know good maps shortly after the reset.

 

normal folk are ppl who play maps
mapmakers aren't human. you, for instance, are an Equation.'

i mean mapmakers like squarelycircle (desert strike)
its ridiculous.

 

You got me there. You win the thread.

 

From what I can tell, they're still working on it. And I am assuming you're talking about the SC2 map they announced at Blizzcon 2010, so: