Banelings rolling animation

Well said.. i couldnt put it better in words.. ( so ill just do an egg roll on the floor! ) weee does it make sense for a suicidal bomber to (like chemical weapons) be delivered unsafely? of course not and that same physics should apply to zerg unless its just for fun.. or unless they have a unique chemical storage system in their bodies that prevents shock damage... uhhhmmm ill probably do more egg-rolls.. ^_^

 

Because I already understand the point enough, and was talking purely on a fanboy level

I have repeatedly stated "yes, it is illogical", it's just the reasons behind my defense are unacceptable by your standards of sense; so I resign from further discussion behind that subject for I have none left to say.

I think Baneling rolling is cool, and worthwhile as a concept of movement, as simple as that. That was "my" main point to get across and based on an opinion (and that's not good argumentation now is it?).

I reserve the right to yell- BANELING BOOOM! XD


-Psi

 

I've always thought of the baneling as using a multi chemical system, keeping the chemicals needed for the explosion completely separate inside the banelings body so any kind of external puncture wouldn't cause a premature explosion.

Furthermore i don't think that walking would look any less awkward for the banelings looks.

 

Wow this seems to be quite the heated argument haha

Itza in reference to the rolling being illogical or not. It does make sense for the bannelings to roll. Here's why.

They only have four legs all of which are small and contain little muscle. To think of the weight of any liquid in that amount is far more then their legs could withstand. Thus to get them moving they must thrust themselves forward with what little muscle they have. Since the legs can't keep up the creature stumbles forward putting their body into a head over heels roll. With the spines on their back they are given traction just like treads on a tire also allowing them the ability to turn. Because they do not have to hit a target with pinpoint accuracy, they don't have to always see where they are going. So long as it is in the general area the explosion will cover enough space to ensure the damage is done. They would move much faster given the weight and liquid within their bodies. For example: imagine rolling a barrel down a hill, now fill said barrel with water. The barrel filled with water will not only get to the bottom much faster, but it will also roll in a far straighter line because it has that much more weight to keep it in line. Just like a river, it would take the path of least resistance. With no weight the barrel/banneling would be much easier to deter, thus it's the only creature that actually does make sense to roll. The argument that it's allowing easy access to it's weak spots would be valid if it's weak spot wasn't about 85% of it's body mass. It's weakness is easy to hit from any angle regardless of motion.

Did you also complain about the scourge in SC1? Not only did it travel through space but it's wings didn't even flap! and it didn't have a remote chance of making a dent in a Battlecruiser with its simply ridiculous underbite and high velocity. Yet we all know that five of those things and the Battlecruiser, illogical or not, still hit the dirt.

Your right about the hopping Thor though.

 

Not true. There's little to say that the Baneling lacks muscle, and its legs are actually quite beefy in comparison to the rest of its body, especially when compared to Zerglings, Roaches, and especially, as it's the exact same situation only exaggerated, the old Infester. The Infester was bigger, its legs were smaller, it was rounder, and it walked. On top of that, the Baneling always holds itself above the ground, never lying down or resting against it, even when idle, so it isn't fair to say that it isn't able to hold its own weight.

On top of that as well, it's clearly visible that walking is a far more effective and efficient method of locomotion than rolling for any creature of such stature. For a couple of examples, ticks and honeypot ants. Both strongly resemble the Baneling's physical structure, and both would easily be able to structurally curl up into a ball. Both walk.

As for the traction, you'll actually notice that the plates on the Baneling's back are angled to a point, meaning that it would experience difficulties if trying to roll in a straight line. You'll also see that its sacs and ventricles all pulsate, which would nullify tread provided by the spines whilst applying tremendous pressure to these explosive sacs of acid, which are only contained by a thin membrane.

Although the Baneling doesn't have to hit its target directly, it still has to hit. Although a Marine may look like a massive target, when rolling towards it from the other side of any large expanse, it would be extremely small. The deviation of one degree could result in completely missing the specified target, even if it was something as significant as a Bunker or Barracks.

Weight may be a significant factor when going downhill, but Banelings are not spawned on the peaks of mountains. The effort it would have to put in in order to keep moving on perfectly flat ground, yet alone on a slight upwards incline or an even steeper ramp, would be astronomical, especially if it's supposedly so weak and with such a method of locomotion offering absolutely no mechanical advantage. As for taking the path of least resistance, again, it's never always going to be in the ideal situation for that to take effect. For example, if it had to roll across a slope, not up or down. It would end up going perpendicular to the way it wants to be going.

As for the weak spots, it's perfectly clear from looking at it that the weakest spot is from the back, and the strongest spot is from the front. Although it has large protrusions of acid at the front as well, the angle and overlap of its plates would work in its favour. Regardless, there is absolutely nothing at the back at all, and the rear sac or ventricle has the largest diameter, which would also make it the weakest. On top of that, from the front, the more vulnerable areas start from about half way up the Baneling. While rolling, it literally starts from the ground.

The Scourge may not have flapped its wings as the Mutalisk did, but it didn't simply just levitate. It was active, and looked to by flapping sideways instead, which could technically provide enough propulsion if it was light enough, but again, that was for the sake of gameplay as opposed to simply being unnecessary. The Scourge is, and will always be, a glider. Now, it may sound ridiculous that a glider should be able to just stand there like that, but just as the Dropships, Wraiths, Valkyries and other jet-propelled aircraft are able to stand idle, they are as well. As for them being able to down Battlecruisers, how is that so unbelievable? They're basically like flying Banelings, in that they contain chemical explosives. Lastly, for what it counts, the Scourge's idle and movement animations never looked ridiculous.

I think it just got a whole lot hotter in this thread, haha.

 

I agree with you rolling is just a impractical way of movement becuse of all the energy needed to roll for one and 2 because if something rolled all day then they would need to compensate for tipping, where they are going (only way i can see this if it has eyes all over or some kind of echo location), and the fact that if it did not keep rolling then it would most likely die in its sleep but then again one could aruge that they don"t sleep and are create simply for the use of dieing at a perticualar moment.

Also with the art now its longer in lenght and less level to roll anyways.

Lastly im sure blizzard could come up with a interesting walking/skittering pattern for this unit
zerg hop, hydras skurry in a snake like manner, ultras lumber, and everything so far walkes in their zerg like ways.

5 yes
19 no
geeze come on guys

 

Maybe they could lower the buldging of the acids, and have them run like the zergling did.
They should probly not run very fast and hide behinde other units to get to the enemy or burrow to ambush enemies or hide away?

 

What the overmind said about the chemicals is very plausible. In real life there is a beetle that has two chemicals in it that can burn through flesh, yet the beetle is okay because it keeps them separate and they only combine once it goes to use the chemicals.

 

They don"t bulge that much for one and it seems in that case the baneling would be better off running instead of rolling.

Another idea is that when it run when it wants to hit a unit it could make a jump at the unit to run into it this would not only provide speed to burst the unit but also would allow it to be able to target the unit better.

 

then it would be more realistic to increase its attack by aleast 10 points or so.
It would also make sense for the acid to spew forwards and heat a few yards if they ran into a enemy.

 

I like this idea the best actually, the Baneling would smother the target by leaping on it and mix it's chemicals causing an explosion on top of the target. If there was a vote for this option I'd opt for it.

Itza
As far as rolling versus walking, it's just difficult to say. Yes when moving uphill the baneling would be basically impossible to move while rolling, then again it seems like it'd be nearly impossible to move period, perhaps if it had more legs like someone suggested earlier. Like a millipede, that would make it more plausible and give it a reason to walk, imo. Although you said it has a very thin membrane holding in it's gasses it clearly has to be strong enough to hold off a significant amount of weight because of it's ability to burrow, if it was that thin then it would explode while underground due to the weight of the soil pushing down on it, and if not then it would certainly explode while jerking itself out of the ground in such a rapid movement.

There is no way a tick would roll because of it's body stature, it couldn't curl up. It's back is firm, for an insect anyway and thus it would roll on it's back just like a turtle and go no where. Honey pot ant is a better comparison but it has enough legs to support it's size, if the banelings had more legs I would agree that it should walk.

As for the spines and plates, you are assuming that the ground wouldn't give way beneath the weight of such a creature just as treads on a tank work because of it's weight, the baneling would leave imprints and tracks on the ground making that point irrelevant.

About the aiming of the baneling if it starts rolling from a long distance the marine would have ample time to kill it if it was that far away. If the Baneling had cover then it would easily be able to compensate for the marines movements in the view that it gets say 30% of the time.

The weak spots are still going to be just as vulnerable as they would be if it were walking, from either side the baneling is pretty much a sitting duck, however from the front it will be covered about 30 to 40% of the time as well as from behind. That's the important part, it's blocking in front and behind it self at regular intervals where as with walking anyone that wasn't facing directly at it has a one hit kill shot. If it had a larger skull surface area like a hydralisk to the point where it's entire chemical sac was protected from the front then it would be a different story but since it's still quite possible to land a killing blow from the front it makes little difference.

The scourge could glide, but not indefinitely it would loose lift incredibly fast. It was about being unnecessary! It's the exact same thing, the scourge had a horrible mode of locomotion as does the baneling, still both extremely effective and accepted. With your argument all they had to do was make the scourge flap it's wings up and down instead of left and right, with the speed they were contracting their wings it simply wasn't possible. It's not about them looking ridiculous as you stated, it's about them being illogical and ridiculous in their movement. Why did the scourge float? Dunno, but it didn't take anything away from the gameplay. Neither should the Banelings.

 

Well it almost looks as if walking and rolling is illogical.

 

^Exactly, one is just as illogical as the other with this unit. If that is the case then what is the drastic need to change anything?

 

They could change how the unit looks then they could make it roll, walk/skitter or run

 

True but I can easily live with the animation as it stands and I don't want to do anything to continue to push SC2 back even if it is something as small and insignificant as this.

 

I haven't seen the animation but i've heard it looks....odd.

 

Just look it up on youtube, I don't think it's bad, it's not the best but I don't think it's bad enough to change it.

 

I can't look it up on youtube

 

Some kind of parental control?

google video?

 

Not true. The Baneling is far from being the creature who supports the most weight on each leg, so weight isn't such a problem that it cannot walk. Just look at its legs and you can see that they're pretty thick, especially when compared to the Zergling's, Hydralisk's, Queen's, etc's, limbs. The Baneling isn't an extreme example, or outlier, even. Simply look at the old Infester. It may have had a couple more legs, but each individual leg would have had to have carried far more weight than the Baneling's do, and its legs are much thinner and smaller. What did it do? It walked, and naturally at that. Its weight isn't an issue in regards to walking. As I said before, its idle animation is a clear example of that. It's not slumped on the ground, and it doesn't even look like it's struggling to stand up.

Perhaps, but I don't agree. Zerg do not dig so deep that the weight of the Earth would begin to crush them. In StarCraft2 we're seeing that they're quite shallow, and about Unburrowing, if Banelings truly were so heavy that they needed to roll in order to move from A to B, they would not be able to heave themselves out of the ground.

I wasn't aware that ticks were so flat. From my experiences engorged ticks are quite round, and simply by curling their legs underneath and tucking their heads under, it could become quite round. Regardless, I hope you can still see a comparison. It's ludicrous to imagine a tick rolling from place to place. As for the honeypot ant, those two extra legs would not make that much of a difference, especially when they're so thin, compared to the Baneling, which has legs like trunks compared to these. A creature of the Baneling's composure would easily be able to carry more than that of an ant.

Tread on tires and tracks may provide traction, but it's hardly comparable to the angle you can see with the Baneling. Yes, it would provide some traction, but it would provide much more resistance if it was actually digging in like that. Regardless, it simply would not be able to roll in a straight line with a bevel like that. It's like rolling a new cricket ball along the seam, and on sand. It's not going anywhere, fast. Also, on top of that fact that it would give more resistance, not all surfaces are soft and would give way like that, like Space Platform and asphalt on Badlands.

That's assuming that there's only one Baneling. With the exception of Burrowing, all Baneling will have to roll from a long distance in order to reach their targets. As for having view thirty percent of the time, the mere fact that it's head is in front doesn't mean it would get that great amount of vision. It's not like looking for one second and closing your eyes for two, it's like constantly doing consecutive forward rolls as quickly as you can. You're not going to be travelling in a straight line.

Your Hydralisk statement seems to contradict your other statement, seeing as the majority of its protection is already coming from the front. As for periodically defending both the front at back at the same time, that's extremely ineffective and not at all tactically sound. If the vast, vast majority of cases, the Baneling will be being shot at from the front, where walking would provide the most protection. In the vast, vast majority of the rest of the cases, the Baneling will be being shot at from the sides, where little to no protection is provided when both rolling and walking, so is irrelevant. There will be next to no cases where the Baneling will be being shot at from the rear, so, with rolling, it's not so much regularly protection its rear as it is regularly flashing its weak spots.

The Scourge is a glider, and although that it illogical, it does still hold from a gameplay point of view. As I said in my previous post, every Terran and Protoss flyer, except the Science Vessel, makes use of rocket thrusters. They're jets. To put it simply, something propelled by jets cannot stand still, though from a gameplay point of view, they need to. It's the same with the Scourges. On top of that, Scourges are seldom idle, almost always being used immediately for suicide runs or to be put on patrol, so as far as the unit itself is concerned, it is still appropriate, though remotely at that. Lastly, the Scourge is filled with explosive agents, and there's absolutely nothing to say that those agents cannot be gases, and light gases at that. Given its extremely small size and light weight, it could conceivably float. The Baneling shares no similarities to this.