April Discussion of the Month Topic: The Zerg Baneling

according to me the baneling is just too big than before. Of course that unit is modified, but i'd like it to be a bit less bigger than before.

To be clear let's keep the new baneling form, but more little, between the first version size and this last one. The Zergling was a little unit, so the baneling must stay little, more little than a hydra. Of course it is a "rolling bomb", but ok it must stay a bit more little.

 

Ahh good. When I saw the Banelings in the Protoss video, and then all of of Killing the Thors they seemed way too good.
Zerglings are easily amassed. Imagine 24 Banelings coming down on you. Ouch.
Thanks Blizz

 

i like the idea of a new slower baneling, as it will make them a survivable weapon. before, they seemed like they could keep up with zealot (unsure if they are upgraded) but hopefully now they will fall behind. they are still fast enough to take a thor down, so their is still use for them

 

I like the speed reduction. First off, being filled with explosive acid, it's hard to imagine them screaming all over the map. Secondly, it's no longer possible to just overrun your opponent using swarms and swarms of Banelings. I might have still cost a lot before, but on money maps, etc, it would be just be a cheap, by which I mean not fair rather than inexpensive, way to gain the upper hand.
The 100% damage throughout the range is an interesting attribute. I love it in the sense that it really portrays how potent that acid must be. Even the people who just get splashed by this acid still take the full damage from it. It also opens up a few possibilities when raiding a base. If the buildings on the outskirts of the blast radius still take 190 damage then positioning the Banelings will become a lot more important.
Lastly on its movement animation, it really does have to be changed. It's awkward, unnatural and doesn't suit the Zerg at all. Rolling around when your entire body is filled with explosive acid isn't the smartest way to go. People have said some thing like:

The Zerg already have a lot of originality in their movement. Drones hover, Zerglings hop, Hydralisks slither, Lurkers are quintrapeds, etc, etc, so we don't need rolling Banelings just to have some originality. If any team needs some originality in their movement it's the Terran. All their infantry and some of their vehicles are just plain, old bipeds. I don't see Blizzard giving Marauders pogo sticks just for the sake of originality, so why give Banelings an equally useless movement animation?

 

i highly agree... the movement animation makes no sense for its weapon of war. If the nit rolls around, wouldent the compounds mix and explode, and if it is just acid, wouldnt it speed the ulcerative process... i think they should find a better way of giving this unit a movement, but i like the idea, maybe switch out the roach movement (it rolls, then attacks) and givce the baneling legs. either way, the changes seem for the better

 

I really don't know about those new updates.

About speed: Slower makes more sense, it was fast as a zergling before, but slower now since it's filled with liquid that can potentially blow up. The old version with fast speed had a lot of possibility for SC2; you can kill microed zealots helping with defence. Depends on how slow they are now, if they are Reaver slow or even High Templar slow... we won't bother to build them. The new slower version has is purpose and definition, but I will miss the faster one that would populate a lot more of battlefields.

Damage: 40 to units and 190 to building is good for balance but I can't see the logic in that. It's not like the corrosion is doing the damage overtime, it's the same raw explosion damage that the units takes. Does not make sense, but blizzard will come up with something for that, 40 base damage with an additional 150 overtime in 10 seconds I dunnno...

Size: Why bigger? The awesome thing about Zergling and Baneling is that it's written with Neon signs, size does not matter. It's small and people fear them as hell. Making them bigger is like making a Reaver roll, how lame is that....

Animation?: Not even in the list of changes for the month. I'll leave the Baneling rolling... ACDC wrote a song already for them '' I'm on a highway to hell'' Leave the bastards rolling =D

 

Since when did we get the information that it was 25 minerals to morph a Zergling into a Baneling?

I think the Baneling should get a new movement animation. The rolling glob of goo just doesn't cut it for me. It should just be a larger green Zergling with a longer time between hops. I don't like the idea that it can only kill the weaker units because then you can't use it in other situations. But, in the Zerg demo, we saw probably five Banelings taking out one thor. So I don't know about the narrow window of usage.

The Baneling right now, is a good unit because it can be cheaply made, but it's only a one time use, making this a fairly balanced unit EXCEPT for the 100% damage throughout the splash range. That to me is imbalanced because shouldn't the farther away from the Baneling's explosion you are, the less damage you take?

 

I think it makes sense for the baneling to be slower, in order to stop zerg players massing them and sending them to wipe out entire armies! One thing that is important though is that they retain the ability to burrow. I seem to remember hearing that they had lost this ability in one of the recent builds. Is it definitely confirmed that they can still burrow? As a slower unit I think this is crucial in order for the baneling to have a tactical surprise role on the battlefield. I like the idea of them being used like a mobile mine field that can be moved around the map.

 

Why won't we build them if they're slow? Sure, if they're slow they won't be able to take on fast moving infantry, but since when were they supposed to be able to counter fast moving infantry toe-to-toe? They're still strong against them, but they require tactics and sneakiness to take them down. Perhaps you could charge in with a whole lot of Zerglings to take the fire and come through with the Banelings to take out the buildings. As we've seen in some of the Zerg trailers, maybe you could deploy a Nydus Wyrm in their base and pour the Banelings through or Burrow them and ambush your opponent as they pass over the top.
Even if they moved at half the speed of a Reaver, they could still be used in most of these situations. They don't have to be fast to be used, Zerg players will just have to be more cunning with them.

 

I agree with whoever said it doesn't make sense for the Baneling to do 40 vs units and 190 to strctures. Are strctures not the stronger objects?
Although, it is a game and not all lore has to be taken into account since its the balance which is slightly stronger than the lore even tho the lore gives birth to the balance.

 

ItzaHexGor :
I agree that if they are slower Zerg player will have to me more cunning to use them. I am not saying that they are useless, what I am saying is that when the Baneling came in I saw it as a versatile unit, base raiding, mineral raiding, good defence early game, good support with Zergling and hydras (or roach whichever will come first).
And now, it's role as been reduced down lower than a Reaver's Scarab, slower and less effective against unit.

Less effectives against unit since most of them can run away or micro your Baneling to death. I would see it's deadliness if you could drop them in the enemy base from an Overlord, but it does not have transport anymore.

Again it can't support your troops, either you troops will be dead before Baneling can get to target, or your troops will have killed the enemy, where is the point in making Baneling. (frontal confrontation, not ambush)

That is why I am not sure about the changes:
Changes are good: It defines the Baneling in its new role
Changes are bad: Lost a jack of all trades unit

And people tend to over-estimate the Baneling strength. How on earth would 4 Baneling destroy a Thor, when 3 can't even destroy a bunker.

I just watched the Thor vs Baneling video again, it's about 7 or 8 Baneling for those Thors , with 40 damage each it's either 280 or 320 damage.

Massing Baneling is not a real problem (I’m talking about the old Banelings, not the 40/190 damage slow ass ones ). They are suicide bombers, if you have more suicide bombers than the enemy as units, then you deserve to win**. If you mass Baneling and manage to take half the guys units then you deserve to loose.
** Again if you have just enough suicide bombers but use them all, you’re at the same point as your enemy, troopless

Massing Baneling will be the same as massing Zerglings, if you never run out, you’ll eventually win. If you do run out, you better hang on to something tight lol, nothing unfair in that

 

I don't agree with this at all:

Banelings could easily have time to get to the enemy before either you or they are wiped out. It's not as though you're charging both Zergling and Banelings non-stop from one side of the map to the other. What's wrong with rallying your troops just outside their base and charging in from there? The Zerglings won't have had enough time to wipe out their defences and the enemy won't have had enough time to wipe out your force. The Banelings don't deal damage to friendly units so it hardly matters if Zerglings are within their area of effect, and they deal a tonne of damage to buildings.

 

Also, he banelings are more effective at repelling the protoss's initial zealot attacks. Whereas the zealots can defeat zerglings quite easily.

Ambusing with these will be fun, especially due to thir splash damage.

 

I appologize for posting a battle situation since situations will never offer the same results, due to so many outcomes possible for a non-described SC battle, I remove what I said about the new Baneling lacks in combat situation.

Thought I need to reply on that : ItzaHexGor : What's wrong with rallying your troops just outside their base and charging in from there?

Answer : Nothings wrong with it... where did you get that I was not XD


I think there is a critical piece of information we are missing to discuss some points for the new Baneling, ''How slow'' is it really?

 

There's two sides to the debate, as we're clearly seeing.

Personally I think there are two types of Baneling that would be absolutely acceptable but would definitely have an effect on how the Zerg play as a race.

Baneling 1: Fast, low damage, inexpensive, sacrificial

Baneling 2: Slow, high damage, expensive, tactical

The original Baneling is obviously useful for actual engagements and en masse. However, the new Baneling gives the Zerg what they really need: a dedicated building destroyer.

Being able to absolutely obliterate Cannons that aren't defended by units is a great strategic hinge. Now instead of avoiding the Banelings with their units, it will be tactically necessary for players to THROW their units at the Banelings in the hope that they will hit the units and not the buildings.

190 damage? Only takes three or four to obliterate your Command Center.

So my heart lies with both units, but strategically I think the new Baneling is the way to go.

 

How do you like the new Baneling?

I think it will become one of the most used building demolishers in quick 1v1 games.

What possibilites do you see for using the
Baneling, what strategies could be viable with the Baneling against the
different races?

Well seeing as though they counter Zealots i think they will be a must have in any Zerg Vs Protoss strategy

What are the pros/cons for this new Baneling?

Pro: Zerg get a good counter to the Zealot and are able to take out buildings more efficiently

Con: focus fire may be the bane of the banelings

 

I want more dmg than 90... Also, will there be a like, poison effect on surviving targets?

 

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mmkay.... neeeeeecroooo

anyways, welcome

 

We're getting lots of necrobumps lately...and today is Halloween. Coincidence?