1.2 Patch notes

Untrue.
In StarCraft 1, you could let High Templars reach 250 energy in order to storm 3 times each during a big battle, making every high templar 50% more efficient in fast battles.

Also, max Energy upgrades would allow less time between the uses of a spell after most of your energy has been wasted.

Lets take the Yamato Cannon.
200 - 150 = 50.
250 - 150 = 100.
Thats lowering the time needed for a 2nd yamato cannon by 50/(Energy regen rate), allowing for a faster 2nd push.

 

It's not about increasing carrier DPS, its about burst damage killing the first enemy of the fight very quickly, decreasing their DPS. Sure in a 1v1 carrier fight the catapult wouldn't make a difference. But in a 10v10 carrier fight, the ones with the upgrade would be able to take down an enemy carrier before the enemy could get all their interceptors out, turning the fight into a 10v9 instead. A 150/150 upgrade that negates 450/250 resources of your opponent is a great deal.

Except you have to wait longer in between each push. If the opponent attacks you too often and forces you to use storms before the templar are max energy, that upgrade is doing nothing for you.

 

I agree there( I also showed that point in the second example, though probably not as clear, but it's generally obvious that a unit less for the enemy is a unit less dealing damage to your units, but in that concept yes that's where the upgrade is good... But still it feels somewhat weird...

I think I feel this way because I'm generally not seeing carriers used much and almost never more than 1 or 2, and now I think of it, in the same reasoning if you make 2 hellions and spend 100/100 for the preigniter, then that's a useless upgrade too under this light.

And for a 10 vs 10 fight those 2.5 seconds difference is a crapload of damage and will not only kill one... Doing a couple of tests too, in most simulations where I pitted 10 carriers vs another 10 carriers 0/0/0 upgrades for all the ones with graviton catapults won with ~3-4 carriers left alive, which is indeed a very big deal... Now if you take upgraded ones(+3 weapons) then the difference should be even greater(I didn't bother check, was satisfied with the difference of the unupgraded ones)...

To sum up you're 100% right there, this upgrade is indeed worth the cost and the scaling with the +1 upgrades makes it even better...

 

RushSecond,

If the templars are not at max energy, the upgrade will have no effect, yes. however, this is only one situation out of many. Max Energy will still have its uses.

 

Yeah, but having 3 upgrades for HTs? Isn't that a little exxaggerating? Unless it's to replace the current staring energy upgrade. Personally I'd take the starting energy one any time over the max energy because it has use right when you need it and not possible use if you manage to not engage into combat for quite some time and have that templar survive till it gets max energy and then have it survive in the middle of the mess while casting storms one after the other... Well, seems like a little too much... I haven't noticed 200 energy on my templars up to now anyway, they either cast or die much before they hit that cap

Plus making templars much before you need them to have them regen is a significant gas investment which could be used elsewhere instead... At least that's what I think...

 

No, my suggestion was just to prove the validity of max-energy upgrades.

 

By 'properly' I meant fullest potential. At which pros played. At which casters never reached full energy because of constant pushes. So max energy upgrades became useless, which is why they didn't make it into SC2.

I used shield batteries but who cared? I sucked. Pros didn't use it so they were removed...

 

Wow. I see...well that's epic bs.
Perhaps pros didn't know how to use things properly

 

You can use some abilities that in SC you had to wait for, e.g. storm. So it was a perfectly logical step. Now you create the unit and instantly use it.

 

Patch 1.2 discussion and predictions

I want to know what you think about the many changes coming with the next patch.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662

I obviously like the gameplay changes, for example draw is going to be finally possible.

As for the balance changes:

Terran

- Change of SCV priority was much needed, but i guess it won't change Terran play much.

- Bunker build time seems cosmetical.

Zerg

- Fungal growth cannot hit air? That's the biggest wtf for me. Since hydras are so slow off creep, it was almost the only option for zerg to counter mobility of air units. I think it forces zerg players to build spire more often.

Protoss

- Hallucination research time decreased. I'm not sure how that will affect anything, maybe there will be some clever strategies invented using that, but i can't think of any.

- Observers are cheaper, that's very good, they are getting killed a lot nowadays.

- Phoenix build time decreased a lot. Maybe there will be more mass phoenix plays (especially in team games)? For sure it will be easier to counter banshees or mutas. Overall seems like a good change.

- Void ray gets the biggest changes. It can't really be used for harrass anymore but as a bonus should kill massive units super fast. I'm not sure how i feel about that, i believe it will be used in PvP to kill enemy collosi quickly. It should also help late game PvZ in killing BL's and Ultras, but it loses so much of it's flexibility...

 

Blizzard must be on dope...Infestors that cant grab air units? WTF...ZERG is the race that LESS players play, they are LESS zerg players in diamond so i was looking for a BUFF because they are the hardest race to play generally. But nooo blizzard is being dumb once again, hurray. Now ZvsZ will only be about the one who gets mutas first, wins.

 

Some of the changes have been reverted:

Terran bunker change was temporary and it is reverted back to normal.
Also Fungal Growth air nerf has also been deemed unviable for zerg and reverted, since it was a serious nerf... I remember reading blue posts about these on the feedback section, but can't remember exactly where and am kinda bored to look them up, but there could be other stuff that's changed too...

Which, if you don't count for the scv nerf which should be treated more as a bug fix since it was able to throw a game off-balance when abused(I don't think they intended for such a tactic to be viable anyway), leaves us with only protoss changes for which I'm quite happy about and for a few reasons:

VR changes: I like both.... With the phoenix buildtime buff making for both earlier and more phoenixes, you have a very mobile unit to harass quite fine. Also once you got the flux vanes upgrade, phoenixes became almost useless due to VRs having strong air and land attacks(esp after the vs non-armored buff) and very good mobility.
Also the phoenix buildtime buff gives an even more viable harass unit, since you can get a few phoenixes quite fast and do some nice harass that way - So we now have 2 quite different units that do 2 different things instead of phoenixes and VRs that could be upgraded to fill both phoenix and VR role.

Also the anti-massive buff is quite nice too... It makes VRs especially effective against BCs/Thors, Carriers/Colossi and Ultras/Broodlords. Imo the most impact will be against thors and broodlords, because thors are still very effective when repaired(you just stop having zealots run around helplessly when the thor is surrounded by scvs) and I do think that broodlords are an extremely effective unit against protoss in the late-game since whatever tech you go they're quite effective against(Hydras are easy to support them against air attacks like phoenixes and so far the most common thing protoss use against broodlords are (blink) stalkers, which are too easy to kill with zerglings/hydras and broodlings and will imo make army compositions like colossus/zealot/VR quite popular in the future...


Anyway, I'll take a break here, because while typing the last line I hadn't noticed the time and work popped up, so I've kinda lost my train of thought... I'll re-post later on...


Aw, as for the phoenix and Obs changes, I think both are very good, the ob one was needed for cheaper and scouting since they die easily, and the phoenix change is in par with the VR change giving over the harass role to the phoenix and leaving the "artillery fire"/heavy sniper role to the VR...

I like all changes of this patch so far(Didn't like the FG nerf, but since it was reverted as well as bunker build cost reverted too I include those reversions in the things I like)...


Edit: Bolded the FG nerf being reverted so that people stop being worried about it. Yes, I agree it was a stupid idea to begin with, and I don't understand it's reasoning especially since a mobile air unit(phoenix) was being buffed in the same patch...

 

As a Zerg player i have to agree with you on that one! xD (Seriously! )

but i didn't really understand the voidray change
so it does more damage to massive but what about the bonus damage against armoured, will that remain the same?

 

quite happy with the new changes. But on final, how many attack levels does the Void ray have, and whats the attack power (and with the massive bonus)?

 

wow the zergs are all up in arms about something that they did a test on and saw didnt work, so the zerg arent getting changed at all, the most impact is the void ray it may finally fill a role rather than the kill everything machine, as it now doesnt kill stalkers instantly nor vikings rather it fills the role of anti massive, yay. ( i hate 4v4 against protoss cause i have to build massive anti void ray stuff maybe we will get a little variation woo)


btw it will just do bonus to massive not massive and armoured ( i beleive all massive are armoured anyways)

 

Yes the 20% bonus is against massive only, which means : Thors, BCs, Ultras, Broodlords, Colossi, Carriers and Motherships...

 

Yeaaaaaah!

 

This is not a strategy discussion nor anything that'd deserve its own thread. Merged.

ps shame on you mr Fenix

pps original was in strat as well... wut

 

How is discussing possibilites coming with balance changes not strat?

 

That's asking about the patch in general, so it's not a strategy discussion.

Anyone noticed the queen gets pushed about skidding more in 1.2.0? It looks bad, fix eet!