ZvP ... impossible for me ... help :)

Okey 5 times in a row i was owned by toss very simply ... i tried with opening early roaches but still he managed to push me back with cannons ... in the time i had ~10 roaches he got enough cannons and zealots to push me back ... anyways in late games i`m just getting own by Phoenixs , Immortals and stalkers ... sometime void rays ...

I hope you can give me a stable build for beating it ... thanks for the help in advance ... the only build i know is early roaches which i saw on youtube ... i am new zerg player as well :|

 

if you're rushing, gas up, double hatch, micro banes while speedlings choke them up against his zealots and cannons speedlings against stalkers

late game, just go for broodlords to nullify guardian shield and rape everything, infestor for neural parasite (in case he makes carriers and collosi) and duh fungal growth, and roaches + mass hydras

 

You need to get some form of a scout out, I recommend using one of your overlords, to see if he is going to fortify with cannons, usually if he fortifies with cannons, you need to worry about preparation for late game. Early cannon mass is to protect from the initial rush and once he wins the first encounter he knows he has the lead and that's the green light he needs to start teching to his Void rays, and other 2nd tier units.

Best thing to do if you can't scout or just refuse to is send in a couple lings and see if he is blocking off his base or not, if he is do not waste your time getting massive lower tier units, because it wont be enough to break through his fortifications and he will just end up beating you. Instead build a variety of units get Hydralisks to counter the Void Rays, and AA to counter the pheonixs.

More experience will help too I mean you can't just jump on and not expect to lose, just keep trying and always ask yourself how you could have maybe done better, and think of possible ways to actually counter this strategy that way next time you see it, you are prepared to take it out.

 

hey zerg has the advantage of scout and with that you can rush your enemy with zerglings

 

Okey so i should scout him wiht OL and if he is not going for mass cannons the easiest way will be with zerglings ? or if he is going with phoenix and stuffs like that i should go hydralisks right?

 

Void rays and phonix are evil for zerg

If you are on a map that does not have a good choke or the toss player has not made a good wall in I would suggest speedlings. They do a evil job at harrassing his base and workers. Just run around his base killing probes and zealots or stalkers that got separated a bit and run away to another part of his base as soon as most of his troops get close to you. When the zergling numbers dwindle run away from his base and come back in 1 minute with more zerglings.

While doing so get some tier 2 units like hydras or mutas.

Also be sure to have 2 queens in each of your bases if the guy is going fast air. Then a bit of micro and transfusion can stop single void rays or phonixes.

 

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okey so ... i almost got the idea but can you tell me what are you calling "Speedlings" ;p i think it`s speed upg. zerglings

 

I am fairly new to the starcraft forums and had to learn all this names people give units.

Yes, speedlings are zerlings with move speed upgrade.

Some of the names came over from SC1.

As for late game, Hydras own stalkers and Immortals. Zealots with Charge can make problems for Hydras.

Infestors are your key unit. I avoided them for a long time but you cannot win against any decent Protoss with them. Use them to pin zealots in place and to take over immortals and colossus. Also they are useful against Thors.
Against colossus you can also use Ultralisks but well that is for tier 3 part of the game.

One of the key things with Zerg is to spread your creep all over the map. Build one creep tumor with your queen and them keep spreading it all over.

 

Work on getting better macro and scouting. If your opponent is walling up and teching, you should either be doing early wall bust or macro. In most cases I opt for heavy macro and start pumping units based on scouting (upgrade ovie speed and fly through base). If you have the big econ advantage and are scouting well, you should know what you need to build to counter his army and have the money to do it.

 

I think there are three important things to do as zerg against protoss. Early roaches, burrowing, and winning the micro.

First, you need to get roaches to counter zealots early. Zealots move very slow and can not keep up with a one shot move pattern using roaches. However, this is where you have to do good micro, you have to keep the roaches just out of reach of the zealots while firing shots at a single zealot, taking out one at a time.

Second, Burrowing and tunneling claws will wreck any late tech ambitions. roaches can go right under the cannons that wall off the base and destroy the probes harvesting minerals. After you wreck his first round of zealots he will have minimal units within the base, plus if hes late teching he cant really afford more. Once you slip past the defenses, your commando roaches can harass and shut down the economy. Probes then pylons then nexus.

Third, Win the micro, zerg v protoss requires good micro by the zerg player, roaches are soft units you cant let them be hit, use burrow and move frequently to avoid stalkers, as they will likely not have an early observer. If you see a probe move to put down a cannon, kill it. Micro micro micro.

 

thanks i`ll try this from the last post

 

@ breadbucket,
im pretty bad at micro-ing, any tips on that or just practice?
also, when i am say...roaching against zealots, should I group the roaches into smaller groups or just keep them as a huge horde?

 

Wouldn't the cannons detect the roaches that are burrowing and kill them before they got through?

 

the cannons are slow and there are usually only two to three by the front, a group of 7-10 roaches can easily get in with a loss of 2-3 units, that leaves you with quite a lot to work with imo. The cannons mineral cost displace moving units that could be built inside, thus losses afterward are unlikely. You just cant let another cannon go up in the interior, hence any probes that breakaway from gathering need to be killed asap.

As for the micro, i just leave them in a huge horde, click on a zealot, then click behind my roaches, rinse, repeat. Dont try to get off more than one shot either, just one shot then pull back, then shoot, then pullback. There is no need for the roaches to physically engage the zealots.

 

I'm confused. Since when can you go under cannons with burrowed Roaches? Building collision should stop that.

 

Bug maybe? Ive never had any problem, not with supply depots either.

 

ahh okay, coz usually whenever I attack I just attack move and let them do their thing, that tactic is a lot smarter then
so many things to do on the battlefield !

 

Spread out, kite those Zealots around. The more distance they have to travel the worse they are. This is definitely the case if they have not teched to charge yet. Which is most likely the case if it is early enough due to the extended time it takes Protoss to get it. Roaches were meant to be counters for Zealots because they can switch from ranged to melee on only ground units.

Good micro against a Protoss players early units will always get you a win

 

So yeah, I played two games against protoss last night....got owned. I massed roaches with a few mutas and was doing fine against zealots with a few stalkers, but the enemy suddenly massed LOTS of stalkers and a few immortals and it was game over. What am i lacking? :S

 

I have the same problems as a zerg player. Against toss I've tried a bunch of things. I usually get a small group of zerglings to rush in to scout a bit and if they don't have cannons up I'll usually harass workers by microing around zealots. If they do have canons though, which they usually do, I just bring my lings back to keep em alive and send an overlord to scout. I've been toying around with hydras against toss only problem comes when they get charging zealots.

Still I have no answer for when a toss player walls up with canons then rushes void rays. I just can't seem to get enough AA out fast enough.