Zerg Spawn Larva idea/suggestion.

Pardon this out of the blue idea...I'm not going to be shocked if it's been brought up or even thought of by others.

It had occurred to me that in the case of Protoss and Terran, their macro abilities had a certain amount of leeway, that allowed them a way to make best of their Chrono Boost or CC energy even if they didn't use it asap at available energy.

All 3 macro abilities share the feature of no auto-cast, and the player must click to use, as well "choose" what they want to do with it.

So the idea to make it auto cast is moot - I don't like it anymore then anyone else, but thankfully it wasn't/isn't my
reason for this thread; My idea was too allow the ability to be cast multiple times on the same hatchery, yet instead of stack, it creates a queue. -Start simple with 1 queue limit-

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For example, let's say your hatchery has a spawn larva up on it. The Queen uses it's 25 energy to cast a second Spawn Larva on the Hatchery creating a queue of a new spawn larva to start once the current finishes.

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This still allows the player to choose how to spend their Queens energy, with out removing their need to still click to use. It's no different then a Terran microing their force and going back to a 100+ energy Command center spamming Mules...in the zerg's case you'd spam 2+ spawn larva despite only 1 gets to go at a time.

Am I missing something? A critical flaw? Or is this within reason?

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OMG! This is one of the best suggestions yet. Trying to use the queen's spawn larva ability can be a real pain > : ( What you've pointed is very true. Even those in the higher leagues would forget to spend the queen's energy.

 

You mean a queue. Yes, this would work, although you should be able to do it without the energy for it, otherwise it wouldn't work.

By the way, a cue is a signal.

 

queue...heh, oy vey

Thanks for that grammar correction >_<

That sounds more like an auto cast feature though, and Blizzard would not implement it if it acted as such from what they mention time and time again. I say that in part that you're basically spam clicking the hatchery 2-3+ times without energy for it to do that for the next few actions when energy permits.

If that were added, it would have to be added to Chrono boost, as well CC energy options to queue up new actions that will happen when energy is ready ect. Just doesn't sound like a move Blizzard would do.

Could you explain how you think it wouldn't work?

 

...Eh, maybe. My concern is that having the ability to queue up Larvae would result in players using up their Queen's mana early, which might make base raids worse when you can't stall for time with Transfusion. It might be worthwhile to make this mechanic a researchable upgrade, since unless someone builds multiple Queens they won't have enough energy to queue Larvae until they get a Lair up.

 

The idea of zerg is to be fast paced low efficiency not fast paced high efficiency... If you want easy mode goto terran.... The annoying larvae issue is there for a reason its a part of a play style. granted sure id like it easier too but thats not how they designed zerg

 

I mean, if you've just made a Queen, you'd have 25 energy, right? You'd only be able to queue it once. It's timed so that you can cast it unlimited times with one queen to a hatchery. So I think you should be able to queue it unlimited times if it's on ONE hatchery. (/lair/hive)

EDIT: IF you have 25 energy.

 

Making a queue would be almost the same as auto-cast, since it just waits for more energy before casting it again. So no, this isn't a good idea. Blizzard specifically chose not to have this on auto-cast. What you came up with is nothing more then a work around to have it anyway.

Further, being able to manage your queens while you macro up and micro your armies, that's just yet another thing which separates the lesser skilled players from the best ones out there. If you watch replays of top players, you'll notice that they don't have any problems with managing the energy of their queens. So in short: keep practicing, instead of trying to get Blizzard to make the game more easy for you.

Lastly: a tip. Set all your queens to a single hotkey. Select them, and then use shift + spawn larva hotkey (depends on your set-up, but standard it's v) on the hatcheries by clicking them on the minimap. Shouldn't be to hard to pull off after some practice. Alternatively, you can also choose to put your hatcheries on a single hotkey, and quickly scroll through them with backspace. That way you do not also enable yourself to quickly manage your larvae, but you also improve your apm, and it makes sure you keep an eye on all bases. (for example, this method also lets you keep an eye on your drone count at each expansion, to see if there are enough)

 

The idea sounds nice at first, but secondly i must say that there are some problems:

Imagine you COULD queue up the larva. How about simply building 2 queens per Hatch - you could spawn more larva than you could use. Think its balanced quite right at the moment.

 

How would having 2 queens per hatch help any more than 1????

 

I don't think its a good idea. My idea has always been I think it should be exactly the same as it is now, but instead of having to click on the minimap or hatchery I think that the queens should inject larva in the nearest hatchery when you push the inject larva. Like Aurora said I put all my queens on one keybind and all my hatches on the other. After playing Zerg for a few weeks though pushing the Mini map while microing my army doesn't even bother me any more though.

 

@Kaaraa

The concern you bring up is void...I'm not even grasping where you're coming up with it to be frank, least in the situation you present.

1) You can only cast it if you have the energy, and sense when have Queens had a surplus of energy in early game rushes where as having said extra energy implies the Zerg isn't on spawn larva duty, and is likely going to lose that fight anyways.

2) A Limit, a mere limit of 1 queue is still within reason. As in one is in process and you spray it up for another to start right after, yet you can't place a new queue if one has started.

3) This idea added or no, people often make excuses as though they lose choice...don't penalize the idea because some players wouldn't use it accordingly. Where and when to use the spell is always your choice.

No current comment on your suggestion for an upgrade/research to fix queen spawn larva issues; depends what you're willing to offer as that fix.

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@ LunaticWoda
That sort of argument doesn't work. You basically defend what is currently available as the way it will/should be...you don't take into account that just about any online RTS, patches happen, and changes with them...that directly implies that the games are not perfect and always open for adjustments; Even if that changes the aspects of how certain races play.

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@ Uratashi
That point you make is valid, yet you can say the same for Protoss/Terran - the energy is matched up so that once it's used it's effect, the energy will tick up to allow you to do something new in a matter of moments. Spawn larva doesn't work in kind if you miss the opportunity to use it as soon as it's available again. You lost those seconds-minutes of it not being up for the rest of the match.

The argument to perfect it isn't working in my eyes due to case scenario of Zerg players have too much larva to work with late mid-late game. It's a huge gap in game balance to have not enough larva or too much of it, and it because of the way spawn larva currently works.

Again, the only change mine offers is not to act as an auto cast as much as to make up for those seconds-minutes you missed to get the next one up...a limit of 1 queue is a reasonable implement for this idea.

You can then tamper with time or larva outcome once you have a more stable output rather then a huge gap of macro intense players and those who forget every so often.

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@ Aurora

Yes and no on it trying to act as an auto cast. It's intent isn't to take control away from the player, yet rather lessen the punishment you take for forgetting to cast it within certain amounts of time. If the queue is at 1, you allow players to cast the spell with out making it something they can still neglect.

Your argument is based on players awareness and APM to monitor that doesn't win me over. There are tons of ways to separate a pro from a novice, and I don't agree with monitoring Spawn Larva intensely as being one; it also hurts the argument when a Zerg player is on top of their game on spawn larva and realizes they have absolutely no fear of running out of larva...that's not a good design for them to not be worried about how many troops they can make at a moment in time...it still needs a harsher cap, but you can't implement one as the current structure stands.

 

@Rational
I defend it because its working as intended Blizzard won't touch it in a million years....

Now for the guys bringing up 2 queens at a hatchery... The purpose to 2 queens is simple

1 queen only limits you to larvae only

2 queens = 1 can spawn a creep tumor (very very valuable) and other can larvae but sense u dont need to spam a lot of tumors they can switch off the larvae job to have higher energy....

And with higher energy 2 queens can be an EXCELLENT way to stop early air or any minor rush due to the healing ability they have.

 

Where is your source that they are contempt with it? Or at the very least ruling it out as being a feature they can tweak/remove if they must?

Stating they "Won't touch it", is too general a statement, and Blizzard is known for voicing they view them selves as their biggest critics. It's entirely possible that minor-to-big changes can take affect to any unit/ability in the game, even if they don't come up til expansions.

If you are trying to imply anything not changed at this point in time means they wont change it in the future, I just can't reason with you past that point.

 

I wonder if shift+click would allow the queen to spawn larva as soon as she can to achieve the same effect? ... this i must test.

EDIT:
Just tested it.... shift-click does NOT let you que multiple spawn larvas on the same hatchery, only que on different hatches.

 

It's amazing how often people get this wrong.

 

I think it would be nice if pressing spawn larvae made the queen spawn larvae at the nearest hatchery. That would make the game work much more smoothly.

It is frustrating to see some people think that Blizzard will never change an idea. Just because the faster and more skilled players can deal with the current system doesn't mean the system cannot be improved. Spawning larvae the current way is annoying, just because some people can deal with the annoyance doesn't make it any less annoying. I don't think Blizzard intended starcraft 2 to have annoying gameplay mechanics so they will want to improve upon them to make them better.

 

That wouldn't be improvement. That would be dumbing the game down. All three macro mechanics need "extra clicking" and it's best like that. The game needs to be played by you, not the computer. If so many things were automated then competitive play would be boring with few dimensions to compare players' skills in.

 

As far as dumbing the game down is concerned, I don't see much of a difference between hot-keying your queens and shift clicking spawn larvae (and having them spawn at the nearest hatchery)and hot-keying your queens and shift clicking spawn larvae and clicking the hatcheries. You still need to remember to do it in a timely manner, you still need to have a control group dedicated to the queens.

If the game is made so that such a minor change like the one I just mentioned takes away enough of the mechanics to make the competitive play boring then Blizzard has failed beyond any nay-sayer's wildest predictions.

I still like to think though that changing it that slightly will make the game better for the players that do not play competitive tournaments while not making competitive play any worse at all.

 

No, it is not within reason. You either have a queue, or no queue. If this would be added, then one might as well suggest warpgates to have a queue of one, or even commanding units to spawn while the Overlord count is still to low, and so on. This mechanic has been set to a manual cast for a reason. It increases the amount of player awareness needed for proper macro, and any serious player would see this as a plus. If you don't think of using the ability, or simply don't have the reaction time to do it at the right moment, then that's simply an area of your play which needs improvement.

Starcraft isn't Command & Conquer. It WILL punish you for your mistakes. Again, this is what separates lesser skilled players from the better ones. I don't really see why you want to lower the bar concerning losses about forgetting to macro anyway. Battle.net automatically places you in a match against equally skilled players. You shouldn't be losing matches just because of this ability, so don't worry so much about being punished for neglecting it. It's silly. :/

If the awareness of what's happening on your screen and the fastest possible reaction time on what's happening on it aren't of any concern to you, then I got a different game in which you might be interested.



Can we please end this childish "i-want-to-be-able-to-slack-in-a-serious-rts-game-and-still-win argument" now?