Zerg Omnidiscussion

The Protoss and Terran Omnidiscussions have been summarized and sent to Jon to do be hacked into a single paragraph to send to Blizzard so it is now time for the final discussion in the 3 discussion series on the SC2 races. Saving the most grotesque for last, we will be discussion the Zerg this month and when it is over I will be posting a writeup on the SC2 Races Omnidiscussion series.

In case you still haven't seen the rules they are simple: Select your rating in the poll above and then give your reasons for the vote and any suggestions for improvements to the problems you have seen. Please be thorough in your responses; saying the Queen sucks doesn't do anything for me and won't help Blizzard fix the Queen. Also remember I have to read ALL of this so do remember to use spaces and blank lines.

Right then
/[Omni]discuss

 

Note that the poll doesn't help much if you don't leave comments

 

im sad that no one posted why they gave the Zerg the 1-5 scores so i guess ill post first. one important factor is that i dont care for graphics so someone else will have to complain about that.

Drones

... should i say anything about them?


Zerglings

nothing to say here it is still the same old zergling from before.


Banelings

a nice evolution to the expendable Zerglings, but i see a lot of balance changes to this unit after the game is release.


Roaches

a nice early tanking unit imo, but it would be nice to see the changes that it have been put through since the Hydralisk are now back to being Tier 1.5


Infesters

a good Tier 2 spell caster for the Zerg, tho im not sure how useful the Infest building will turn out to be.
Disease tho will be really helpful against the new MnM, and Dark Swarm will always be useful, as will its ability to move while burrow.


Hydralisks

cant say much here till we get more info about what it went through since it was put back to a Tier 1.5 unit with the Roaches, except that it will be a lot more useful against air units.


Lurkers

tho i love this unit, it seem to have change from an anti infantry to an anti armor unit, which it is somewhat weak to, so i will have to see.


Ultralisks

they improved it a bit, now having 600 health, can burrow and have a small cleave ability, it will still be the main damage soaker for the late game zerg.


Nydus Worms

HATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i hate what they have done to it, now all it is, is a improved Nydus Canal that takes up supply. if only they can let it emerge without needing creep, they can but some other sort of limit on it, but in order for me to stop considering it a building it need to be able to move around by itself and not need creep at all.


Queens

a very unique unit, im not really sure how to view this unit, as it seem to go threw a change (major or minor) every time we hear about it.


Overlords

not much to say except that it lost its detection and carrying ability and all it gain was the ability to produce creep, i can see why many people are upset with that.


Overseers

the core of the upsetness about the Overlord, this unit stole the Overlords ability to detect, its Changeling that it can produce is something that i can only view as not very useful late game. but i do like its expanding sight range(as long as it is still)


Mutaliskd

nothing different about them expect that it seems harder to keep them stacked.


Swarm Guardians

same as the old Guardians with the ability to make Broodlings every time it attacks, im just not sure how useful the Broodlings will be.


Corruptors

a unit of small debate it seems, the corruption ability might or might not be as useful as Blizzard thinks, i will have to play with it to see for myself.


overall i gave them a three, mainly because they seem to have the least change of the 3 races, and my hate for the current Nydus Worm, i just hope that Remy comes back to give his opinion, then we would have a nice text wall on each race.

 

Well here i go for this omni.

Drones: i dont think any change needs to made here, unless its movement speed or collection speed.

Zerglings: so far this unit needs no change what so ever. I am glad that they made it smaller so more can be seen at once.

Banelings: great anit-zealot and building unit, only needs minor changing, movement speed etc.

Roaches: great unit idea, im just concerned about roach spamming and how they will balance him out.

Infester: i need more info on how this unit will work on other zerg and protoss bases before i answer this.

Hydralisk: right now, i dont have enough info on where the hydra is going to answer this.

Lurkers: just need a better design, can't differnaint from the roach in large groups.

Ultralisk: love the new desing and abilities, so far no problems with this unit.

Nydus worms: so far i believe this unit is fine for what it was made for, but i believe that it could use some changes.

Mutalisk: still a good air and ground harasser.

Overlords: they kinda have no purpose now except to expand the creep and to add to the pop cap.

Swarm Guardians: i believe this will be great base and unit harasser especialy with the ability to spawn broodlings.

Corupters: i have mixed feelings about this unit. Sure the ability to corrupt and take an enemy unit is inticing, but is it worth it in the end?

Overseer: basicly, in my oppinion, this is just a copy of the first overlord with a new design.

Queen: Looks like a good base defence unit, but still have some issue's on how much change its going through.

So far the zerg are shaping up nicely in accordinance to how they played in the first. I give the zerg a four out five.

 

The Nydus worm seems to have some isues and apparently no one liks the overseer.
Any units you think are a major problem or are the issues relatively minor and are simply a case of indecisiveness?

 

i love how the zerg have been so far. i do see a lot of balence changes in the near future but overall a great spread of new units for the zerg.
a
lthough im biased becuase i love them overall

-Zerks

 

As the others have said, the overseer seems unecessary and useless. Sure it can make another unit, but thats the only thing new about it. I say give the overlord back its detection and ability to carry troops.

The nydus worm: i think that all the unit need is a very low population and maybe a slight adjustment in health/ unit capacity.

Overall they;re fine, just need some tweaks to make 'em perfect

 

My zerg opinion far now.


Zerglings: I dont like new wings design and moving animation.

Roaches: Good unit idea, But they need at least a jump abilitie, maybe pass them to tier 2. Becoz without that, IS TOO EASY counter them regen abilitie, U need only focus fire and in SC u always do that with important units. In youtube videos we may see how 6 marines kill like 7 roaches easy otherwise they are too slow to escape and use their regen.

Infester: About the old defiler abilities, are more cheap, but you dont have consume. Soo is not soo dynamic like the old defiler. And about the new infest abilitie, if only work against terran, it will be a unless abilitie like the old queen abilitie.

Hydralisk: I dont like their graphics, zerling and hidras and other zergs units looks similar. Too many spines and claws it made that their loose its shape. And this units it doest have any change... No new abilitie.. Nothing.

Lurkers: just need a better design, can't differnaint from the roach in large groups. (the same that Gforce opinion)

Ultralisk: Claws too large in the design, but i like the new stat changes.

Nydus worms: The idea is good, but need an improvement becoz zergs loose a lot of dynamic or strategy posibilities having only canals to transport. I will like the idea how i post it here.
http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5069&page=4

Mutalisk: still a good air and ground harasser.

Overlords-overseers: There are ok.

Swarm Guardians: i believe this will be great base and unit harasser especialy with the ability to spawn broodlings. (The same opinion that Gforce)

Corupters: The best unit graphics soo now..

Queen: I really like this unit. But To carry soo many important abilities, it have low hp, soo if the enemy do a little of focus damage is dead before cast more than one abilitie.

About the buildings, i dont like that now zergs have a lot of different buildings. How baneling nest, or roach building. I will like more that you may mutate the spawming pool into the baneling nest without an extra building.

Creeps: I like all the new changes that blizzard thougt on how to use the creep.
I like the new zergs defences.

One more thing, Zergs needs some more new abilities to their units. Maybe little abilities, but something that may add different posibilities or ways to use in the battlefield each units. Giving more fun and extra strategy to the game.

 

Personally I gave the zerg a 4 by accident when I thought I was pressing 3 lol. The zerg are not balanced at it seems. I LOVE the fact that nydum worms are restricted to creep now and I want to give all of you guys at Blizzard a big hug for finnaly realizing that creating a canal in the back of your enemys base was way off the bolt.

It would seem the magnificent idea of the Queen is now being reduced every day and made less important. If this continues the Queen will be close to useless like the old one was. Bring backa few of its old abilities please.

I do not know but I feel like the zerg are just missing something really big but nobody can see what it is! I know that comment was useless but seriosly they do not feel as structured as they once had a while back.

 

so...now how will the zerg transport effectively? Not only does the nydus canal have to be able to get to the destination without being seen, it has to wait for an overlord/overseer to come over and lay down enough creep for it to beable to surface. This makes it much easier for other players to counter the drop even before it can happen.

Both protoss and terran can drop wherever they want with just 1 unit. Though the zerg can now transport more, its much harder for them to get an effective drop/transport. For those with bad micro skills (like say...me), drops with zerg are going to be almost impossible to make effecive against a decent player.

With all the complaining about zerg poping up in behind bases, its called detection! Nydus canals cant get behind you if you have any detection in your base. If the zerg have canals and you dont have detection yet, than you deserve to get your base overrun with zerglings.

 

the Nydus Worm is built (not even sure if it evolves from a larva ir if it evolves from the Nydus Network), then you cant move it, it takes up supply, and can only be deployed on creep(which means you have to use the overlords anyway).

they make it so much like a upgraded Nydus Canal, then expects you to think of it as a unit. it should only be considered a unit if its able to move under its own power. i, myself, wont mind if there are other restrictions, but it needs to be able to move on its own in order to be considered as a unit, and, for me at least, it also should be able to deploy without creep. otherwise they should just make it a building, and give the zerg another unit to play with.

/mini-rant

sorry, felt like explaining more about why i hate the current Nydus Worm.

 

Hmm, I voted 3

I dunno the zerg impress me in certain areas but in other areas they don't they're just not my race.

They have some new cool units but its not enough for me to appreciate their race completely.

 

So far i'm alittle disappointed, but the game has a ways to go still. There's alot of concepts i'm not that pleased with though at the moment:

Overseer - Don't see the point of having this unit; morphing your Overlords into them seems like a waste of time at this point. A unit slot shouldn't be wasted on a unit with such a minimal role.

Roach - Since Hydralisks have been returned to Tier 1, why does this unit exist? It's so similar to a Hydralisk, besides the regeneration mechanic. If one of them is to be replaced, it should be the Roach; the Hydralisk is too iconic of the Zerg race. The addition of the Baneling has given Zerg much potency in the Tier 1 phase, that the unit slot could be better used elsewhere.

And... It's probably not necessary, but my ideas for fixes!

► Overseer Redesign: Ability to drop itself to the ground, into a heaping pile of bio-mass. This mass maintains the Creep at the area and replenishes the health of nearby Zerg units, similar to a Protoss Shield Battery, at the cost of it's own hit points.

► Roach Redesign: The unit spawns Broodling-like units the more attacks the unit takes before dieing. Against powerful attacks, such as a Siege Tank blasts, no units would be spawned because of it's instant or near-instant death. Against weak attackers, which would require multiple hits before killing it, Broodlings will be spawned as it takes damage. Each 30 damage taken (Roaches have 90 total) will spawn a Broodling, however, exceeding the intervals will not spawn additional Broodlings; ex: an attack causes 70 damage, only one Broodling would be spawned, another would be spawned on death.

 

The Zerg r looking quite spanking right now and I love how they are using Creep as a tool rather then a limitation as in SC1.

 

I gave the Zerg five stars, but out of the three races I rarely play them.

In SC:BW I'm not that interested in playing the Zerg. In SC II from what I've seen about the units and abilities I'm really interested in playing the Zerg. I've already thought up one or two strategies I want to try out with them. Something I haven't done with the Protoss, my favorite race to play in SC and SC:BW.

The units, buildings and the few combat scenes I've seen look great.

Blizzard seems to be a lot more consistent and focused on where they want to take the Zerg. They continuously keep making the right moves with the Zerg. thinking about incorporating the creep as a speed enhancement is another interesting development.

 

I gave the zerg a 4 because all it's unites are good exept for the nydus worm and overseer. Honestly the zerg transport sucks!!!! I think if blizzard wan'ts to balance out the zerg transport they should give the overseer the transport ablility and have the nydus worm as a secondary trasport. If you think of it protoss and terran both have more than one transport unit.

Tarren:-medivacdropship, viking(Transform), and reaper(Jump Ablility)
Protosshase Prism, colossus(Jump Ability) and warp in(instant transport from warpgate)
Zerg:-Overload has to fly over a land crap out some creep and then plant the nydus worm on top of that there is a 5 second waiting period and you can't move the nydus worm again so if your drop fails you lose the trasport(because they are probably going to kill the nydus worm) and nydus worms are pricey.

To be honest I don't know what was going through blizzards mind when they though of this idea

The alternative to the nydus worm balace would be if it were able to pack up again and move somewhere else

 

I think overlords and overseers both should be able to detect cloaked units.. and I'm a little unclear on whether it takes an overseer to unload creep, or if a regular overlord has that ability, but if the regular ovie can unload creep, I think once upgraded to an overseer, it should retain any ability it had as an overlord and gain maybe both the abilities of increased sight range and transport... only overlords you spend the time and resources upgrading to overseers would have the ability to drop.. and perhaps you can upgrade speed for all overlords/overseers by upgrading speed from the lair/hive still like in SC/BW.

Nydus worms are a great imrovement over the original canals but definitely have to be figured out to their prime potential still. I can't make up my mind whether I feel they should be restricted to popping up on creep or not, but with the overlord (or overseer) having the ability to drop creep, then maybe it really should be restricted to popping up on creep simply because of that (ovies being able to drop creep seem to largely go hand in hand with the nydus worm being restricted to popping up on creep) ..in SC2 the idea is to make the zerg creep a more usable tool to be utilized by the zerg army. The potential extremely fast deployment of tons of zerg units through the nydus network makes it important to not make deploying nydus worms too easy, obviously.

Someone brought up the point of roaches and lurkers being hard to tell apart at a glance, especially in large groups of assorted zerg units. I think it's important to make sure in the end that each unit is at least fairly easily distinguishable from one another but I'm sure Blizz folks are ultimately on that page too..

I like the idea of the infester, I thought they looked pretty useful and fun to mess with, as seen in the zerg units trailor.. I mean I could see it being a fun little side strat to add to your normal z strats, at least against terran, in that you can try to sneak into a terran base and infest a barracks or two... I can see the potential trouble in pulling this off or having it be some common thing but the ability is just an awesome ability. It's not like you have to sneak into a base burrowed, if you manage to bust through a terran's front lines and swarm a bunch of units into the main along with some infesters specifically to run in and start infesting terran buildings while the rest of your units battle with the terrans forces, that could be vicious!

As for the Queen, no need for her to be of Hero status, but like someone said before me, don't keep cutting her abilities back to the point where she's not nearly as useful as she seemed she was going to be in her original re-vamped version. Make sure she remains an extremely useful / important unit for zerg players to learn how to incorporate into their strats. Seems like originally she was going to be the ultimate base defender of sorts and she really should remain just that. The best balance against her having strong abilities and base defense capability is to not make her very strong, simply so that if a player opts to have a portion of his attacking units target and chase around the queen, she can be killed fairly easily.. unless of course the zerg player has badass queen micro!!

Overall, I think I'd give the zerg race a 3 as of right now. Maybe a 4-, but it's gettin there!

 

Topic will be closing soon.
Please leave closing comments

 

overseer: pointless, overlord should have its abilities back.

nydus worm: seems to have been nerfed too much, nothing more than a canal now.

infestor: see infestation omnidiscussion

 

i think most of our opinions are still as resolute as when we first posted. or we just haven't found anything else that needs to be fixed with the zerg.