Zerg Morphing is essential

I've been trying to take a break to really try and understand what the problem with zerg is in sc broodwar and could STILL be a problem in starcraft 2.


I want to try to explain why the zerg morphing function should be as essential for every zerg unit as shields are essential for every protoss unit, and abilities essential for practically every terran unit.


I'm going to give you the flat out honest truth. It doesn't matter how or what you respond with, the following is a fact.

If zerg were, or are truly balanced, then the correct method for playing zerg would be to have a hatch at every expansion.

For example, in ZvT, if the right approach to playing zerg was taken, zerg would expand twice, produce a wave of offense to aggress, but then immediately afterward mass drone to recover economy lost.

Each race is suppose to have a defensive element to their offense. A terran army that is not moving, and has abilities represents the defensive element to their offense. The protoss having shields that recover faster then zerg life, represents the "Defensive element" to their offense.

However, when it comes to zerg, the defensive element to zergs offense is found in the morphing.

Every single zerg offensive unit should be able to morph in to a defensive style unit so that zerg is then capable of placing hatches at expansions, sending a wave of offense to aggress, and then reacting accordingly by being able to mutate that offense in to a defensive means in order to protect those bases so that not only a recovery can be made, but the opportunity to exceed their opponent in economy.

In starcraft broodwar, we saw the hydra mutate to lurker, and the muta mutate in to a what?

What is it called? "A GUARDIAN"

Guardian? The name has "Defense" written all over it, however, I insist that the guardian wasn't even that defensive. The lurker obviously was.

The point is, zerg were only capable of a defensive reaction with their offense with two units, the hydra and the muta.

I'm glad we are seeing the baneling in sc2, but I wonder if this is going to be enough?

I believe firmly that a morphing to defensive type units should be essential amongst all zerg units as it is essental that protoss units have shields, and terran units have abilities.

That is quite simply where zerg failed.


The theme of each race is the following

Zerg "Reactive Quantity"
Terran "Positional Ability"
Protoss "Agressive Quality"


Reaction, Agression, Position

Quality, Quantity, Ability


let me represent this on the basic level...

100 minerals = 4 lings

The strength is in the quantity because 4 lings will beat 1 zealot.

However a zealot recovers shields faster, so theoretically a zealot could actually beat 4 ling.

100 mins = 4 marine... their strength is in that they are "ABLE" to attack from a distance.

It's clear where the thematic strengths are, and that they balance out depending on how capable the player is at utilizing that strength.

For example... I believe that the transfer of fire from a marine gun shouldn't be so instant and there there is a very slight microing attack style.

I would like to note that 4 marine on the other had will own 4 zergling.

All i want to see is themetic balance on the basic unit level...

That zerg's quantity element should be strong enough that it balances out with terrans ability to fire from a distance. The amount that zerg pays for lings, should be equally capable of beating what terran pays for marines, balanced out by the quantity and the ability.

 

While I agree with the lurker, they did add the baneling; which along with burrow easily becomes a movable minefield since they dont need to unburrow to be manually self-destructed, though not as good as the spider mines from sc1. So, you could see the baneling as the defensive morphing unit to an aggressive offense unit: zerglings. They are also much cheaper per unit to create than the lurker even if they have a one-time use.

As for guardians, I cant really say they were defensive since they were usually morphed offensively and were extremely slow to be a reactionary unit. The brood lord has the advantage of creating broodlings by its attack and is more resistant to attacks than the guardian, so it is better defensively than the guardian was, though it is still a mainly offensive unit.

 

And here I was being gullible enough to think this was true. My mistake.

 

Well, It was for long enough...


I insist that there thematic balance should exist on the most basic warrior unit level of the game, maybe not anywhere else.

Blizzard needs to find a way to balance

Shield recovery
Marine firing distance
Quantity of zergling

and furthermore implement the ability to morph to nearly every zerg offensive unit.

 

Just saying its 50 minerals per marine so 2 marines are 100 minerals, not 4.

 

Touche

You know what I think though?


For some reason, at a certain point, for what terran spends in marine as what zerg spends in zergling, the marine easily win....

I think it is an issue with the movement speeds of the units, and the firing distance of the marine.

The zergling and the zealot and the marine all move at about the same speed.

I think that in order to correct this issue where marines reach a certain point in production of having an advantage over zergling is to balance the zergling speed with the marine firing distance.

That zerglings should move at a speed, and marines should fire at a distance that would basically make them equal, and that who wins the battle would come down to micromanagement and tactics rather then there just being some point where marines overcome great amounts of zerglings.

So the movement speed of lings should naturally be fast, with out an upgrade of speed, and then this would be balanced out with perhaps slightly greater firing range of marine, and shield recovery of zealot.

 

Lurkers were probably the best defensive unit. You could burrow them around your main base as a trap for anyone that drops your base. It's too bad the Hydras can't morph anymore. Is there any word that since there are three releases of Starcraft 2, each one will be server as an "expansion pack" and reveal new units, possible some new morphs for the Zerg?

 

I want to respond to an earlier remark by Zealot In a Tux.

"We might be able to use the 2:1 ratio to identify redundancies in the game, but I don't see how it is going to affect balance"

The zergling, the zealot, and the marine, are all too "Similar" in speed, naturally.

This is a clear redundancy in the game where the zergling should have naturally been faster, because there shouldn't just suddenly be a mysterious pivot point where an amount of marines for a cost is greater then the same amount of cost for lings.

 

any mechanic were there are melee units and ranged units are like that. At some point, even if the ranged units are weaker, their range will give them the advantage over melee units eventually when they start to build up numbers, no matter how weak they may be compared to the melee units.

When you mean faster, do you mean unit speed? Because even without upgrades the zergling is faster than marines or zealots, hence the term "zergling runby" which can be done even without the speed upgrade. And when they are upgraded, they are the fastest units in the game even when off creep.

 

Yeah, I noticed that they are slightly faster even in broodwar... But I really do believe that one of the soul reasons and issues that blizzard was trying to correct by making zerglings faster on the creep was the natural speed that zerglings were suppose to posses....

I think that zerglings should have just been made faster all around, naturally, because it is more in alignment with the 2:1 ratio.

zealot in a tux was right, we cannot say that zerg's strengths is numbers when the units are smaller and do less damage, and can't take as many hits.

All we can say perhaps is that the strength is "Speed" and the marine strength is "Range" and the zealot strength is "Tanking"

I really don't like this principle where at a certain point ranged units are simply more powerful then any amount of melee units you throw at them. I really think that they should just balance out the range, the speed, and the tankablity equally and then let it be based on how a person uses the units, like the concept of marine micro or zergling formation tactics, not sure what it would be for the zealot.

 

Firstly, the move speed bonus on creep was not implemented to "balance" zerglings, otherwise only zerglings would get the speed bonus. The speed bonus was implemented to promote the spreading of creep both for its awesomeness and to emphasise the swarming-festering nature of Zerg. It's why creep tumours don't cost resources after the initial energy cost.

Secondly, the balance between the marine/zealot/zergling is perfect because they're tweaked to realistic numbers. Every unit has its critical mass but that doesn't mean they need to be nerfed. In competitive play critical mass (where, as you say, no matter how many zerglings you'd throw at marines they'd die) is extremely rarely reached, plus positioning greatly influences this (you wouldn't attack marines at a choke, etc.).

Again, false conclusions, sorry.

 

All non-floating/flying Zerg units are faster on creep. This is a race-wide defensive advantage and was added specifically to accomplish giving Zerg such an advantage, and also, to do something interesting with creep.

They were already significantly faster than the other races' T1 units. It was never an issue to begin with. "not in alignment with the 2:1 ratio" is not a valid balance concern. It has nothing to do with balance.

Look at it this way: when those Marines approach critical mass (the point where they can chew through nearly-infinite Zerglings), you have a ton of options:
Metabolic Boost - Faster Zerglings means the number required for critical mass shoots through the roof. It's not likely that your opponent has thrown their entire economy into making enough Marines to do this.
Tech to Roaches - Extremely high HP, high armor, damage, mean you can walk in with a bunch of roaches, pick off a few Marines, retreat the injured roaches to the back, rinse, repeat.
Tech to Banelings - Banelings obliterate big balls of Marines. Of course, don't send them in alone. Send some Zerglings in with them to take some hits.

If ranged-unit critical-mass were really an issue, Terran would be overpowered. What with all of their combat units being ranged, and all.

You can't think of it in terms of individual unit types. Homogeneous armies don't win games against skilled players.

 

I don't really understand this critical mass.

Critical mass is a sociodynamic term to describe the existence of sufficient momentum in a social system such that the momentum becomes self-sustaining and fuels further growth.
Social factors influencing critical mass may involve the size, interrelatedness and level of communication in a society or one of its subcultures.

I ask the question, why does a critical mass factor even exist in ranged units?

Perhaps because this ability is a themed strength. What ability can we see in zerglings, naturally, that balances out with the ability to shoot from a distance. Obviously it shouldn't be range, so what is it going to be? The zealot has shields... we ask the question, what is the zergling suppose to naturally posses in a ability that balances out with the range of the marine and the shield/regen of the zealot. Speed...

That is why I say they should naturally be faster, and I'm sure that this is a key factor in why zerglings are now capable of moving faster on creep.


When you think of a swarm, you think of an insect cloud...

An insect cloud can fit between marines/zealots no matter how tightly packed those marines and zealots are....

I wonder if they made the zergling smaller in sc2 to better fit inbetween those cracks?

Now, we might ask the question, is jumping to the ling metabolic boost even worth it when a secondary level of critical mass may be reached, and therefore require that you produce an equal amount of zerglings to deal with that army, therefore not being worth it for economic purposes. No.

You would just figure to jump to baneling, assuming that baneling is good for dealing with the critical mass. But truly it is not because the metabolic boost does not boost their movement speed(Correct me if I'm wrong) and therefore jumping to baneling is not ideal for dealing with marine critical mass unless you reach burrow.

So what is zerg suppose to have which they can jump right to in tech that counters the critical mass of marine?

Is it the roach?

I do think that in sc2 that researching metabolic boost, coupled with how lings already move faster on creep, may be what blizzard was getting at for dealing with critical mass...

But I think it should rather have been or be the hydra from sc broodwar or the roach in sc2.

In sc broodwar, I would have liked to seen two hydras per egg for 150/50 in order to maintain a decent economy and counter the critical mass of marine with hydra.

I guess that since there are not medics in sc2 that roaches should be affective enough at countering critical mass, since this critical mass doesn't have healing capabilities as early.


There does even exist a critical mass sort of element in zealots when they are grouped together tightly and lings cannot get around them,


I'm starting to see that zerg's strength of quantity can only be effective if it can surround the opponent...


I see what you are saying though about the creep giving lings speed which yields a swarm effect...

Because the numbers is not a strength with out the effect of swarming, that is, possesing the speed to quickling jump in and hopefulling surround individual, or smaller groups to get the most affectiveness out of the zerg numbers.

A true balance that would get the most effectiveness out of zerg numbers would be if zerglings could fit between the spaces of tightling packed marines or zealots.

A cloud of insects represents the swarm and can fit between those cracks...

Is the zergling smaller in sc2? it almost seems like it... i wonder if it is smaller to better fit between those cracks.

 

A good defense, is a good offense, I think that's the zerg's fundamental because they can mass up really fast. The obstacle is having a creep highway stretching far enough.

As long as you can match up against your opponent's army evenly, you should win.

I disagree with the morphing.

 

You’re right to not understand it in this context: critical mass (a Sociology term) is being erroneously applied to this situation. This “threshold” might better be described as a “tipping point”; if anyone actually knows the correct term for the phenomenon we’re attempting to describe, would you please stand up? We haven’t the faintest notion.

Kuvasz is correct to point out that this “tipping point” is a non-factor in competitive games, if only because of the implausible number of units you were projecting. However, critical mass/tipping point/whatever does NOT, practically speaking, depend on sheer numbers (or, saturation) in order to be fulfilled: we have all forgotten that this phenomenon can take place on a much smaller scale, ie: this threshold exists when a given value of lings cannot defeat, for example, the equivalent value of marines. For example (and just as an example), this phenomenon might occur when 400 ore worth of lings faces off against 400 ore worth of marines, and we find that the marines consistently win on any terrain given any plausible unit formation.

But even if it was demonstrated that a "tipping point" occurs on a relatively small scale, your argument still wouldn't be relevant. StarCraft is a game of unit COMBOS; overreliance on a single unit is inadvisable, and leads to clashes in which your homegenous force will meet a hard-counter. This "tipping point" you describe is inconsequential with regards to gameplay since 1) Zerglings are a soft, not a hard-counter against Marines, UNLESS they are paired with, say, hydralisks that draw the marines’ fire while the zerglings tear the marines apart. And 2) while this "tipping point" exists, it simply is not a fundamental flaw in the game's mechanics, since its tactics promote diversity over quantity.

 

The combo factor is practically irrelevant. There is a saying that goes "Don't make units unless you are going to use them" The zerg combo of hydra and ling would only be effective if out of one egg came a hydralisk and two zerglings.... Now that actually might be interesting!

If you make lings that do not get kills, then eventually those lings will have put a dent in your economy because the terran will reach critical mass and then you will have simply better spent that money on sunken colony.

I see a lot of pros get lings, and this is a sure sign to me that the professional korean league is hyped up to be something that it is not. I've seen pros noobishly think that they can make lings and gauruntee kills with them, only to fall flat on their face losing pathetically. I was just reading that other day how Savior was involved with professional matches where players would lose on purpose. At times I feel like it is all just a big production to generate revenue for their country.

Anyways, the zerglings can morph to a baneling now, and I'm assuming that either metabolic boost, or the baneling on the creep is suppose to be an effective counter to the critical mass of marines. A faster baneling on the creep to charge in and explode?

I still think that the proper counter to critical mass of marines would merely be hydras coming in pairs for 150/50 cost, or roaches coming in pairs for double the cost and production time. But perhaps now that terran does not have the medic, it's not so much an issue.


I wonder if it would make zerg really interesting though to have them be a sort of combination of melee/missile out of one egg.

I always knew that the melee missile combo was a critical aspect to army effectiveness in the game... I think it would be really cool if there was an option to make a hydralisk or roach and a pair of lings in one egg for 125/50 costing 2 food...

That would be interesting.


But no ZealotInaTux, you know how protoss zealot and dragoon share upgrades, like when you upgrade attack the dragoon and the zealot both get +2? This seems to almost give it a coupled effect when an upgrade increases both melee and missle and hence makes them function even more effectively in army effectiveness.

If the zealot and the dragoon "UPgrade" together, then I ask the question... why can't the hydralisk and ling PRODUCE together? or Roach and ling, whatever.

 

each race has units that upgrade together, so I dont see how this justifies zerg producing together. While the zealot/stalker upgrade together, the zerg has the roach/hydra which upgrade together, which also counters zeal/stalker build. If we look at upgrades per race, zerg has 3 for ground and 2 for air, toss has 3 ground and 2 for air, and terran has 2 for infantry, 2 for mech, and 2 for air. Thus, if we look at the cost of maxing out a varied army, terrans have the most upgrades they need to research.

In ling/hydra build, the lings are mainly used for a meatshield to keep your more expensive hydras safe during battle. Lings also surround much quicker, so they are able to create a faster ling wall to stop enemy units from being able to hit the hydras as easily.

If they did have it so you could make multiple units out of 1 egg, they would have to figure out how to do it effectively. Like there would need to be more buttons on the zerg's UI to allow for the various unit combinations since you would need both ling and the hydra/ling button since I still have to be able to make lings before I have the hydra den out. You couldn't just simply add the hydra to the ling button after the den is done since I may not what to make hydras at certain points due to limited resources, or I have a lot of minerals to burn but little gas.

 

Yes I know that each race shares upgrades together, but it just so happens to be most effective with the zealot/dragoon combo.


Anyways, your never going to see a zerg player who is even halfway decent do a ling/hydra combination attack... never was... never will be.

 

I did ling/hydra all the time in the beta and it seemed to work pretty well. I personally dont like mutas since they never seem to be too cost effective for me since many players usually had some static defense or AA before my mutas came out, and hydras are better than the roach in terms of offense.

I've seen a lot of high level zerg play in beta where they go mainly hydra/ling once the roach got the food nerf and the muta becomes less useful after enemies get static defenses around their mineral line.

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the main zerg strat in pro SC1 usually ling/hydra with a few defilers? Mutas usually only showed up in early-mid for harassment and then not used too much after that point. Ultras only tended to show in the very late game and only if the zerg had ~4 bases.

Overall, I found the ling/hydra the most useful ground composition in lower econ games which since I played mostly 2v2 and 3v3 in beta, it was difficult to get more than 2 bases without the third getting sniped by combined enemy retaliation since the third base could only be positioned in more open positions.

Hell, I've even seen a few plat or higher sc2 matches where the zerg goes mostly lings and proceeds to win against higher tier terran armies.

 

StarCraft is ALL about making unit combos, not about mass producing a single unit. Relying exclusively on a single unit leaves you wide open to hard-counter tactics. If you don't understand that, you don't understand StarCraft.

Zerglings supported by hydralisks was one of the most common tactics in BW. I'd be curious to know why YOU think this combo is not one in the pro's repertoire. You claim to watch a lot of pro games --in which case, you MUST have seen this elementary tactic.

Humble, aren't we? You determined that ALL Korean pros are bags of wind because of the silly mistake a few pros made in a couple of games? This is the third time which you take a cheap, uninformed swipe at the Korean pros --what is it you have against them, besides the fact that they're better than you'll ever be? Go check out the Pimpest Plays of The Year on SCLegacy: it will cure you of the notion that Koreans only pretend to be good at StarCraft.

As for the suggestion that it's a ploy to fuel their economy, consider the fact that South Korea has one of the higer standards of living in the world. You sure you didn't confuse the South Koreans with the Cambodians or the Thai? Do your research before you denigrate an entire country.