I've been a Zerg player since day one, and i'm alittle skeptical about Zerg in Starcraft II. It seems like alot of thier mechanics could be carried out much better than they currently are. So, I have some ideas! Tell me what you think. ►Zerg Queen spawning units as defense - The whole Creep Tumor thing is kind of stupid if you ask me; there's no "Wow!" factor to it at all and frankly it just doesn't feel Zerg-like if you ask me. Aren't Zerg Queens supposed to spawn units eitherway? Why not have her spawn units to deal with threats; timed-life units unique to the Queen. ►Overseers/Overlords - I don't like this addition; why waste a new unit slot on somthing like this? If Overlords being detectors is such a big problem, why not just make an upgrade; perhaps combine detection and sight range together into one. I also don't agree with the "Mineral Infestion" mechanic being on the Overlord. ►Swarm Guardians spawning units - The Swarm Guardian spawning Broodlings was a very cool mechanic that shouldn't have been removed in my oppinion. ►Infestor replaced by Defiler - The Infestor doesn't make sense. First of all, I don't think anyone likes the model. Secondly, how could that blob possibly be able to tunnel underground? Thirdly, it looks like C'thun from World of Warcraft. The Defiler seems more apt for the job. » The Defiler would be the perfect candidate for the "Mineral Infestion" mechanic. » Defiler abilities: Disease, Defile Resources (Mineral Infestion mechanic), Infest Structure, Burrow (Able to move). And that's it! The Queen currently is my biggest concern, Creep Tumors and Shriekers? Stupid as hell! And it's an eyeball in the creep, it's not a tumor! /Arnold
The Sunkun is kind of like a unit since it can now move. I agree with the Overlord and seer statement. The Overlord should just have a number of upgrades available at the same time at tier 1 being: Increased speed, Increased stationary sight, Spawn creep. The corrupting mineral mechanic is very linear, it will be removed. Since Blizzard thought: ''Oh hey, Zerg players always scout with Overlords and will leave them around to see their enemies build order, why not give them more incentive to scout their bases by telling the players to mess up their minerals.'' This same effect can be done with an Overlord spawning creep on the natural expansion and having a Sunkun plant its self their, that stops them from gathering those minerals and actually delays the expansion, not to mention walling them in. That is what is called dynamics, when things can be used in other ways which are not the obvious solution to a problem. We don't need an ability to compensate for people being unimaginative or because Blizzard is trying to give us incentives to do things. That will happen when we gain experience in the gameplay, but at the same time they need to allow those seemingly normal mechanics to be dynamic without stamping an ability on it. The Swarm Guardians still produce Broodlings when they hit a target. That was never offically removed. The Infestor model will change, whether its similar to the Defiler or not I don't really mind, as long as the model fits the unit's purpose. For example you wouldn't have a mouse looking model for a ferocious killer like the Zergling even if they're both numerous and very fast. They need to address the fact that it harbours many deadly chemicals, meaning it won't look pretty. The fact it actually moves through solid ground, so it has to be robust (not all soft like its current model). Although I believe they made it into a big balloon as they have the infestation ability as a liquid, which I think they shouldn't do. It should physically infest a structure like the Sc1 Queen did; I also think we should keep the building and if its a Gateway or Barracks we can produce Broodlings or infests at mineral/gas cost as that opens up way more stratigical options, for example, I might want to just take the building, float it elsewhere to produce a cheap army of ranged infested Marines. Or I might want to take the time to infest it to simply take the building away meaning one less production building for them. Instead of the linear mechanic they have now where the Infestor can operate independantly (doesn't need anything to kill off hitpoints to infest) which they balance by the fact you can infest anything and produce units except you can't keep it. Seems very much like a Warcraft type mechanic/ability currently. I like the sound of the corrupting minerals going to the Infestor; calling it defile is nice too, this basically lets Zerg pollute minerals before the enemy can think to make that 3rd expansion, or even second if you get the Infestor fast enough. Finally the Shrieker is probbaly gone now with the re-introduction of the Sunkun and Spore colonies. Also, isn't the creep tumor what the Queen uses to burrow from base to base?
* Zerg queen spawning - if you have read the recent discussions with the queen lately you'll find out that the creep tumor was replaced with sunkens and spores.. And about laying eggs to produce various units, the blizzard team started with that concept but in the end they find it boring and too much warcraftish... technically the queen was built to be defensive and the wow factor is there to begin with just by seing the queen herself... why she doesnt have egg-laying mechanic is probably to lessen micro with the race that mostly needs micro.. SC1 queen was more likely the queen of your choice which blizzard sc team evaluated as not as purposive as her name implies... anyway its still subject for changes so... * Overlords/seers - I agree with you on this one as all the time overlords were efficient enough once upgraded getting movement, transport and sight... The SC2 upgrades such as Creep-crap, Mineral-crapping, and the idea of standing still and wait till you can see farther is also crap.. lol as ive said the Ovies were already potent and didnt need the evolutions just to get the sc1 upgrades... the problem here that everyone mostly are confused with is the transpo of course so again -cookie points for overseers ^_^ * Swarm Guardians - recently in the Q & A batches it was confirmed that the spawn broodling mechanic wasnt removed... "wasnt removed" and it emphasized that the broodlings will have a very short amount of time and btw if you look at the characteristics of the S.guardian you'll see some comparable attributes with sc1 queen... * Infestor vs. Defiler - I think youre looking down too much on the Infestor w/o knowing its in-depth advantages over the Defiler so ill discuss this also in a more graphic look with emphasis on their differences INFESTER ------------------------------------------------- DEFILER * Tier 2 ------------------------------------------------------ Tier 3 from these fact you can see how much beneficial it is for the zerg to have the infester as they dont have to wait for the hive just to be able to have an option of building the defiler.. the Infester can be much quickly deployed in battle rather than waiting longer for the defiled one. * Disease -------------------------------------------------- Plague the disease is much more potent than the plague due to its contagious aspect and its killing power, basically the disease is able to spread wider while the plague stops on which target were hit.. + the disease was said to be able to kill units unlike plague where it has a fixed damage cap.. btw the disease damages by percentage and the damage will be widely varrying on its targets so.... * Burrow movement ------------------------------------- Crawling and about the movement as a blob? actually i have no problem with that as all physics doesnt apply with the zerg to start with.. definitely blizzard will answer that, and if you ask that question you'd also probably wonder how in sc1 did nydus canals get to be connected no matter how far...the defiler sure is a candidate for replacing the overlords ability to ooze on the mineral but the ovies arent such a bad choice either coz they are huge and definitely have a lot of craps to pour down that harvest line ^_^
The Queen will basically hide in one of your bases all game long so why not use one of the Hatcheries right next to it instead. He doesn't want the old tier 3 Defiler and abilities back, just the old model. Only real change he wishes is the addition of a mineral defiling ability.
Hey cool, thanks for the info. I had no idea they didn't remove the Swarm Guardian's broodlings, that's good news! Eh I don't know, for some reason i'm not getting alot of "Wow!" from Zerg. I was never interested in Terran and Protoss previously, and now they're really appealing to me. Immortals are just downright cool as hell; awesome model and the shields are a really interesting mechanic. Reapers seem so badass. If Marauders are kept i'll probably lose a ton of units to them, while I stare at thier coolness and lose track of my own forces. Vikings are amazing looking, so many dirty possibilities with them, etc. Am I the only Zerg player alittle disapointed with Zerg so far lol?
no, you have Remy, he is disappointed with the Zerg line up a little, but even more upset with the Terran's line up
well recently they said that the zerg is the most unpolished out of the 3 races and they are currently giving it all the attention it needs so we are probably expecting another major changes especially after the event in Viva la France! is over.. @ GMG - well to me, a person suggesting a unit to replace the current one is insisting in his thought to be applied.. im not really sure about RedLazer but at some point in there he clearly stated that "Infestor replaced by Defiler" from that very statement you'll just have to look at the bigger picture and not take things by the words... the idea of replacing the infester with the defiler shouldnt end with the model and movement, of course youre gonna have to consider the abilities of the two to point out why it should or shouldnt be done so to give a better picture of its totality..
About the Queen, I'd say that its abilities definitely fit. It spawns creatures, some considered buildings while others are considered pseudo-units, and also has abilities like Swarm Infestation. I preferred the Creep Tumour, Shrieker and Swarm Clutch system to the Colony system and I'm disappointed that they changed it. However there's nothing indicating that the Creep Tumours or Shriekers were removed. Having the Colonies spread the Creep would conflict with their uprooting ability and Shriekers did more than just detect, which may or may not have been returned to the Spore Colony. About the Overlords and Overseers, I don't think anyone's too happy about this. I'm pretty sure that everyone would just prefer to have the original Overlord back as it was so efficient and iconic. Their Excrete Creep and Slime abilities do suit though, and were common fan suggestions. Then again, a Zerg-like Centipede was also a common fan suggestion for some reason, so I guess that's not saying much. About the Infester, all three of those points were exactly the same. Firstly, yes no-one likes the model. Secondly, no, it doesn't look like it could travel underground because of the model. Thirdly, yes, yes it does look like the C'Thun from WarCraft, because of the model. Besides, we've been told it has been/is being remodelled. If the Queen doesn't grab you, then that's probably why you're disappointed with Zerg. The Queen herself and the whole new defence system are amazing, though it's been hindered by the return of the uprootable Colonies, which I find to be worse and less Zerg-like than the previous system.
@freedom. If you read his whole post you'll see that he also said: He clearly stated what abilities he wanted the Defiler to have. Nowhere does it say Plague etc. From this you can make that it's the model of the Defiler he's looking for, not the abilities.
Ive already highlighted my reply with that so ill guess we'll leave it to RedLazer on which exactly is he referring to happen... (btw im just trying to convince him why the infestor is better thats why ive given him the facts) "Infestor replaced by Defiler "Infestor replaced by Defiler "Infestor replaced by Defiler" its a general approach as you wont close your thoughts on just the model and mineral defiling
Lol, Sunkun and spore colonies are less Zerg than before? The fact they can uproot is less Zerg? Its a hinderance? That suprises me because, the little swarm clutches where really weak and were forced to be massed in order to be any good, moveable sunkuns give the Queen a small rest in running/tunneling everywhere to respond to a base attack, the fact they can move allows you to adjust your base accordingly to the situation. So at first you got Zealots running into your base. What do you do? You place the Sunkuns in a hard to reach place making the Zealots waste time trying to reach them while dealing more damage to them before they reach you as opposed to putting them out in the open, not to mention fashioning your base so it splits them up to the Zerglings advantage. Now the Zealot threat is gone, they're coming over your cliff with Stalkers but your Sunkuns are around the Hatchery, what do you do? You uproot the Sunkuns to a more appropriot place near the cliff where they can attack the Stalkers before they get in range of the cliff, and by the time they teleport up the Sunkuns already their free hits in. Now with the swarm clutches, 1) you needed lots of them which costs minerals and gas 2) you need to mass them in every location they're in as their so weak, you spend more time placing swarm clutches and more minerals when their attack isn't all that anyway 3) Now you've fully fortified the apprent vulnrable and necessary part of your base, but you get suprised from the other side. Oh no you need Zerglings to defend but you can't due to the Queen waiting to get there and waiting to place them, by then your Queen is dead, you have 2 Zerglings and 3 swarm clutches or something. It isn't good enough. With the Sunkun you simply move it from the other side to the new problem area, problem solved and you have a strong base defense where you don't need to risk the Queen every single time. They also allow other tactics to be used, such as uprooting and moving to another base instead of waiting for the Queen to arrive and make more, they can be used offensivly in conjunction with a creep push and instead of continuously building more, they simply get closer and closer, deeper and deeper into the base, meaning less minerals wasted and it was more effective than keep building your swarm clutches while putting your valuable Queen in direct danger.
Zerg Queen spawning units as defense - I'd feel much safer having a hardy defense structure like the Sunken colony than having Queen spawned units. Besides, you could just use newly produced units at your base to defend if the colonies fail you (as well as Swarm Infestation). Overseers/Overlords - I agree with you that the Corrupt Resources ability doesn't belong on these units. However, I like the Overseer morph because it still allows scouting and base security without being "detectorific". I'd also like to see transportation given back to the Overlord, if not both of these units Swarm Guardians spawning units - There's nothing official saying this attribute has been removed, though the fact that Broodlings spawn from infested structures hints at it. I absolutely love it, and hope it stays through to release. Infestor replaced by Defiler - You seem to hate the model as much as I do, which is great. I'm also hoping the Defiler model (or something like it) is used. I agree with you that Corrupt Resources would be a perfect ability for Infestors.
