First of all, I would like to say that I appreciate everyone critiquing of my different crazy propositions. I mean, when you know that something that you feel so passionately about is imbalanced, you really got to make the EFFORT using everything you can possibly conceive of just in hopes of getting lucky and hitting that nail on the head. "I think and think for months and years. Ninety-nine times, the conclusion is false. The hundredth time I am right" - Einstein One of the most reputable sites on the internet for defining philosophy is the following... http://www.spaceandmotion.com/simple-science/truth-reality-discovery-of-the-obvious.htm Philosophy: The discovery of the obvious "No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious." (George Bernard Shaw) "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" - Da Vinci My opinion, and a very reasonable one at that is that the solution to correcting zerg is obvious. But being able to wrap one's head around that obvious truth is ultimately difficult. So just because I use logic to try and fix zerg, I do so in hopes of getting lucky and nailing that obvious problem on the head. So don't feel like by me making the effort in the face of Progamers, and Programmers that I'm trying to figure out the obvious problem which means that Progamers, and Programmers are not intelligent. The fact is, we are all stupid, because we cannot identify that obvious truth. I believe I have identified what that obvious truth is, but you do have to give me some credit and respect because I have played equally as much zerg as pro gamers, but I did so trying as many ridiculous things you can possibly imagine, rather then refining my micromanagement and APM skills. I've always believed that the reason why zerg was flawed or imbalanced to the other races is because they were not unique enough. Everyone knows that zerg truly are unique, but they are not ultimately unique... zerg were in the previous game, and still are, in this game, half assed unique, when they really should truly be the unique race. And now the big question... How should they be unique? The zerg were suppose to have 2 tech trees. This way, the game follows the pattern of 2 same one different... 1 tech tree, 1 tech tree, 2 tech trees. For example, when you climb lets say the zerg tech tree, you have your tier one, and then you have your options that branch out on tier one, or you could decide to take the route that is not a dead end, climbing to tier two, where a whole new set of options open up that branch of in to different dead end options, or you can chose the path that isn't a dead end and go to tier 3. This same concept was suppose to be implemented in to zerg units. Zerglings for example, would have their different dead end branches that they could morph in too, either the baneling or the roach for example, or they could head up the main trunk of the tree in to hydras. Then hydras would have their different options that they could mutate in to branching off, lets say for example, the lurker, as I heard that in the heart of the swarm they were bringing back lurkers. But the problem with zerg has been clear and obvious all along, their tech tree was meant to be part of their units... Nuff said, case closed.
Started adding stuff and it became quite long, soz. But I felt like typing stuff this evening He did wait for that hundredth thought before publishing though, didn't he? So, every starcraft player but you is stupid because you are the one who has identified the obvious truth. Right. And I'd rather to add refining strategy in there too. Did you consider that these gamers actually win games and don't have problems with zerg or any race that they play appart from some minor ones(And yeah, it's version 1.0 imbalance issues are bound to exist)? These gamers also spend the part of their time where they think with thought like this:"I have problem A which I encounter in this situation. What can I do to counter it?" "Ah, see what I did here was good, I could refine it a bit more to become better." and not like : "Whoah, this 2-1 balance is really cool! It adds up to 3. It would be wonderful if it added up to 7, no wait! There are 7 basic units, so we're cool, but if you add their mineral costs and divide by their added gas costs then you get 6.5 which clearly sucks and messes up balance, and because the universe is gonna collapse we should create a way to have 1 basic unit building buildings and then 2 other units each mutating into others, 5 and 2 respectively so that the total number is 7, but it could also be cool if they were 6 and 2 as including the first 2 it'd be 10 which is the sum of 3 and 7 which is really freaking cool! Oh wait! That's a wonderful idea! Let's spend some time to post it in the forums!" Doesn't really work, imo >.< Right, how exactly is that happening? Zerg have 1 building for all units that spawns multiple mutating creeps! How is that "not unique"? Terran have freaking flying buildings and Toss can create their units in any spot in the map they like! Zerg regen life, Terran repair life, toss have shields, how is any of the 3 not unique? Yeah, terran are also half-assed unique because their building times are not prime numbers, and toss sucks cause their regening shields and non-regenerating life make them a hybrid between terran and zerg and that sucks so bad it makes the whole universe collapse. I feel for you. Ah, I have an idea! Let's have zerg only be able to build units on a slimy thing called creep! We'll say that the buildings need nutricion and the creep is like an athlete's breakfast and has all kinds of creepy stuff like proteins, carbohydrates and fat that makes their buildings muscular and strong. Oh, and make their supply units flying! Let's say that if these do not exist then the swarm will go rampart and attack everyone on site as these flying thingies are so cool that they can control the zerg as their underlings! And make 1 building able to produce all! Let's call it a hatchery! That'll feel like a really primal race! Super-funky! And OMG! They should be able to MUTATE, damn that's really cool, into other units taking nutricion from the creep and evolving into other units! How cool is that? Aw, ****, pokemon came first there Well the other ideas were cool, I say we propose them to blizz for implementation. There was a blue post announcing it right? And they cut it because? Link please Diablo ETA is not out yet, but they have some cool stuff in mind regarding trees, I'm sure. Again, says who? Was there a blizzard post about it and why they dumped the idea? And playing zerg would feel like playing diablo. "My Frost Hydra pwns the **** out of your hammerling! Reroll, nub!" That would mean that playing Toss or Terran would be like playing the mob side of diablo? /shrugs We're still in patch 1.0, and some abilities and timers have not been tuned correctly, yes we know QFT
personaly I always thought it was a case of people not abusing the zerg map control and underhand ablities enough *shrugs*.
I played zerg for the second time today and did some matches agains the computer to get a feel about the race. In fact they do feel like an immensely strong race to me, but they seem to have a few issues: i)They need lots of control. The longer a game takes the more control you need. In addition to playing the game like the other 2 races, you need to keep in mind your queens, your spawn points, controlling the map with creep, protecting your supplies from air attacks. I feel like it takes much more skill to play zerg to their full potential than the other 2 races, esp terran, due to the fact that they have lots of stuff going on. ii) Their units are powerful (it takes 6 broodlords 2 hits each to take down a command center, that's kinda sick!) but their stronger units are a little specialized against stuff that it makes their late-game a little weak compared to other races due to the need of versatility. I've only played zerg like 3 times or so, so my view of the race is not the most accurate, but I feel like in good hands zerg would be devastating, but still need some fine-tuning in numbers, or it could come from the terran/toss side(like the upcoming patch). Let's see how it works
I'm going back to two foundational points. "Don't make units unless you are going to use them" This is especially true for zerg, because terran and protoss make units regardless.... That, and the other issue is strictly an options issue. Terran and protoss open up options that exist seperate from economy. Zerg's options can not be shared with the production of drones, that's just absurd. If zerglings however had the options of what to morph in too, this is still effecting zerg's economy, because zerglings came from larvae.... DUH! Zerg is just quite simply a race that was poorly thought out, and considered, in their uniqueness. Think about it like this... what's the point to keeping zerglings alive? There has to be a better reason for keeping them alive... that would be the mutational options that they yeild.. I'm just saying, zerg can't share all their options with drones, while drones are sacrificed for buildings, and overlords occupy additional larvae....
IMHO zerglings are still dam usefull even in the late game. Mostly becuse there dirt cheep and fast as hell. To use a praticle example. Hive plus queen puke = 7 larva. 7 larva + 350 minerals = 14 zerglings. 14 zerglings is enough to rip a unprotected base apart, especialy if there fully upgraded. combind with there speed they great units for forcing your oppoment to protect his base. Another use is as cannon fodder in your armies of course. Being the only aggrecive zerg unit that purely cost minerals , they can help you hit that food cap when your gas is a bit low. They also make great scouts, especialy with burrow.
This is no more true for zerg than it is for terran and protoss. If you make a bunch of useless units with any race you will lose against any competitive competition. It's not at all absurd. It's exactly how they functioned in the first installment of the game and you seem to have had no problem with that. It feels like you are implying that the only factor that affects the number of units zerg can produce is the number of larvae and this is simply incorrect. Zerg, like the other two races, are limited by what they can make by resources, not by larvae. Again you keep claiming that zerg's lack of uniqueness is a design flaw. First, by what standards are you judging uniqueness? They are quite clearly different from the other two races. And even if we were to share your opinion on the lack of uniqueness by zerg, how does this indicate a poorly designed game? Also, why must zerg be the unique race? Is it because they are your favorite so you want them to be different? Even if the application of the 2 becomes 1 theory made sense here, why must zerg be the 1? You keep them alive because they are useful and unless you are supply blocked for some reason there would be no point in letting them die. They are good against a number of units and can easily harass expos because of how fast they are. They share the same reason for being kept alive as most tier 1 units. They quite obviously can as they have done so since the beginning of starcraft and can still be played at a level comparable to the other two races.
You really shouldn't have wasted your time with all those remarks. The fact is, it's imbalanced, I gave the reason why, and it is a logical fact in the minds of those who truly know zerg, who are not defending their ability to own zerg with terran and toss, and those who have even an ounce of common sense... Because the truth is obvious, once known.
You have yet to give a single piece of evidence that shows zerg is unbalanced. Your premise, as I understand it, is that zerg is flawed because they are not unique enough. You have yet to explain how this is a flaw, what exactly your standard of "ultimately unique" is, and how they were ultimately unique in starcraft 1 but not starcraft 2. Frankly, it boggles my mind that you think anything you have presented us makes the least bit of sense. I also have to wonder what it is you get out of making these posts. Do you appreciate the attention? Are you just making them to get whatever points it is people get for making posts? Why bother making them in the first place if you aren't willing to have an honest discussion about what you're talking about. I have legitimate questions regarding what you are touting as "obvious" but of course you can't be bothered to address what is obvious to everyone aside from yourself: that the "logic" you use in these threads is flawed and almost nothing you post follows any sort of logical pattern. You simply jump from statement to statement claiming that each is a truth and that there is some logical train of thought that connects each one. If you truly had any respect at all for the sources you quote in your posts you'd be willing to discuss your claims instead of ignoring the obvious logical fallacies that myself and others have pointed out in nearly all of your recent threads.
