Z v T turtling

Discussion in 'StarCraft 2 Strategy Discussion' started by Tempest., Aug 21, 2010.

Z v T turtling

  1. Tempest.

    Tempest. New Member

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    So I'm a Zerg solo player, and I am on a losing streak when it comes to terran.


    Terran will always block the entrance to their base, making it impossible to harass them via speedlings. I try to use banelings to blast a whole through, but if they get tanks fast enough than it is over.

    I cannot penetrate the base of a turtled terran with tanks, even late game.

    It doesn't matter what strategy they use. Whether its marines with Thor and SCV, mass vikings, or mass BC's. They always just hole up and defend with tanks and anti air.


    I've attached a replay. If you want to comment on my general strategy or just mistakes that I made, that would be great. But particularly I'm interested in how to defeat a turtled terran.
     

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  2. domanz

    domanz New Member

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    I'm having the same problem. Only thing I can think of is harassing with air or ov drops/worms, or expanding aggressively and completely outmacroing him, but once he notices that, he'll just come out and kill you.
     
  3. Hodl pu

    Hodl pu New Member

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    Try Muta harass. It will force him to make AA, + itll be easier to spot him trying to expand. Use the muta's to have complete map control and try to prevent any expos if possible.

    Muta's shouldn't be your main army, they're there to help control the terran.
     
  4. RushSecond

    RushSecond New Member

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    Watched the replay, here are my thoughts.

    1) Possibly the latest zerg expansion I have ever seen. You should have taken your natural the moment you saw his bunkers, at around 20 supply, NOT 50 supply. That is just stupidly late.

    2) Early on, your economy was abysmal; you need to make many more drones. You should have at least 2 drones per mineral patch. (To be fair, you did pick up your economy wonderfully later on)

    3) Also the latest lair I have ever seen. The money spent on your second baneling's nest (which is useless, that must have been a mistake) could have instead be spent on a lair.

    4) You didn't tech enough. 27 minutes into the game and you still had just lings, roaches, and hydras. You really should be expecting air at that point, and gotten corrupters and possibly brood lords.

    5) You scouted the island expansion waaaay too late. Should have sent an overlord to each island very early on. That alone might have won you the game.

    6) When you did scout the island, your overlord did catch a glimpse of the battlecruisers and the fusion core. That should have sent alarms off, to the effect of "NEED SPIRE NOW".
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
  5. toochaos

    toochaos New Member

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    against a turtleing opponent one thing you must know is that they are teching and relying on one base, as zerg you should expand into at least three bases. this means you should go for something like mutas and destroy his mineral line ( he only has one mineral line) take control of the entire map, and although he may have battle cruisers how many can you really make one basing the entire game. these are the keys to winning against a turtle, for his is limited by his shell while you are free to be massive.
     
  6. Kaaraa

    Kaaraa Space Junkie

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    Pooling then going straight to Zerglings like you did is a gamble that really only works against lower Bronze League players or perhaps Silver League players who wouldn't expect such a noob strategy (no offense). Here's a build I've been using for my last dozen matches:

    10/10 - Spawning Pool
    9/10 - Drone
    10/10 - Overlord, Extractor (send three Drones to harvest as soon as it's up)
    9/10 - Drone
    10/18 - Drone, Queen, make Drones until your supply reaches 18/18
    14-15/18 - As soon as you have 100 minerals & gas, research Metabolic Boost from the Spawning Pool (it's okay to make a few Drones while you save up resources, since at this point your mineral collection rate will be a lot higher than gas collection rate)

    18/18 - Overlord
    18/26 - By now you should have 2-3 Larvae, plus the four you gain from the Queen's Spawn Larva (if you casted it the second the Queen hatched). Select all 6-7 Larvae and make Zerglings. You can make another pair of Zerglings here if you wish, or you can make another drone. Either way, you'll have maxed you population.

    26/26 - Overlord, morph Lair



    By the time those 14-16 Zerglings have hatched, the Metabolic Boost upgrade should be nearly complete, if not finished already. Run 'em down to your opponent's natural expansion, and make single Zergling scout his choke point. If the coast is clear, go all in and head straight for his mineral line. If he's walled off, let your Zerglings sit tight while you build a Baneling Nest and pump out more Zerglings. About a dozen Banelings will usually break through your opponent's wall, allowing you to send your Zerglings inside and tear apart his workers.

    I'm still watching the replay (about 12 minutes in) but why on earth did you build two Baneling Nests? That's a complete waste of money; you'd be better off building some Spine/Spore Crawlers at your base in case you get attacked.
     
  7. domanz

    domanz New Member

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    Isn't that build very vulnerable against an early marine rush? I'd scout before doing that.
     
  8. Tempest.

    Tempest. New Member

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    the 2nd baneling nest was a misclick.

    don't worry about that, but yes it was a waste of resources
     
  9. Kaaraa

    Kaaraa Space Junkie

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    No, not really. If all goes well getting my first 16 Speedlings out takes a little under 5 minutes. If a Terran opponent manages to send Marines to me before any of that, then he's basically going for the same gamble as Zerg players who opt for the 10 pool 6 lings build.

    If my raids aren't going as well as I'd hoped, then I usually drop two or three Spine Crawlers next to my mineral line and tech to Hydras in the likely case of a counterattack. Otherwise, I begin expanding while teching to Mutalisks, since by then my opponent has usually become paranoid about ling rushes and opted for anti-ground forces (or in the case of Protoss, filled their starting base to the brim with Photon Cannons). From there it's just a matter of keeping the pressure up with my Mutalisks until I can make Brood Lords.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
  10. RushSecond

    RushSecond New Member

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    You can get your pool at 13 supply and still be safe from almost all rushes. Especially marine rushes (because marines are rather weak in small numbers; two zerglings can easily beat one marine)
     
  11. domanz

    domanz New Member

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    I tried your build order in 3 games now karaa, and it rocks. Thanks bro :)
     
  12. strykez3r0

    strykez3r0 Guest

    There's a lot of mistakes you made in that replay that contributed to your inevitable defeat.

    1) You expo'd way too late. If the other player is turtling, it's common sense to expo as soon as you can to gain an economical advantage.

    2) You did not scout enough which lead you to realize that he had another expo when it was too late.

    3) You had idle workers at your second expansion that were not even being used.

    4) You had 5k minerals, 5k gas that was just sitting there at one point in the game. They could easily be put into morphing more zerglings you had into banelings, they're more useful against M&Ms then zerglings.

    5) You had infestors and you didn't use your parasite to take control of the tanks on upper cliff which would have you let you gain a huge advantage. This in turn would save your army from getting obliterated by tanks so that you can use them against their battlecruisers.

    6) Not enough anti-air. You even saw how many BC's he had when he had your expo..