why cant lurkers not attack while not-burrowed?

lorewise

 

Actually, they can't attack while unburrowed.

 

Only a single word, and you managed to make a spelling mistake. Epic.

Anyway: the Lurkes spines need to impale units. They are way to big to be fired. Hydralisk spines are a lot smaller. Also, they were evolved to specifically attack while burrowed. Seems like a pretty good reason to me.
Still, I find it weird that they have no weak melee or something. Even if it was just worker unit strength. That would at least add SOME realism to it. Right now, the Lurker is possibly the most difficult unit to, erm, believe in. It has nothing from the real world that you can recognize.

 

Because you have to press the little burrow button to make it attack...

It's very mystical. Noone knows the answer

 

The lurker is huge, clawed, yet completely harmless in melee.

Also, it shoots vertical lines of spines even though they all come from a single shooting point. If it had a tail or an elongated shape... then sure... but... just... what?

Its scifi but respect the laws of physics goddamit! Give the poor fellow a convincing attack.

 

Almost all Zerg are said to have some sort of control over Warp Space, particularly Overlords, Overseers and Nydus Wyrms, and presumably units like Mutalisks, and other flyers, Lurkers and other units that otherwise appear unexplainable. So, based on that assumption, the Lurkers are not 'shooting' spines, or stretching themselves really far any more than they could be opening a series of minor rifts to ambush their targets.

On to being huge, clawed and harmless, so what? So are Rottweilers. Being big and spikey doesn't mean it needs to have a melee attack. By that logic, Overlords should attack too, with their massive crab claws. You're also got to remember that the Lurker's lack of attack when Unburrowed it also due to gameplay and balance, much like the Siege Tank's dead zone and the Viking's lack of Air-to-Ground and Ground-to-Air.

 

^ total agree

 

Warp Space? So lurkers are now suddenly psionic units that teleport their shots through "warp" (this is not Star Trek) and therefore its totally ok to have them do any kind of crazy stuff? First: NO. Lore states clearly the the only Zerg capable of doing such things was Overmind and now Kerrigan.

Asimov, Bradbury, Herbert and all the great guys would be just ROFL at this in their graves. Seriusly have some respect for Science Fiction. There is a reason its called science fiction and not just fiction, or fantasy with lasers.

Talk about a deus ex machina! Stacraft deserves better than this. You should write hollywood movie scripts my man. They need your help in destroying every book they turn into a movie.

 

Firstly, Warp Space does exist in the StarCraft universe. The very fact that you think of this as crazy Star Trek stuff implies that you know little about StarCraft lore. The Overmind uses it to transport its armies to other planets, as you've referred to yourself, Overlords use it to carry such large numbers of units within such a confined space as well as keep themselves afloat, if I remember correctly the specie assimilated to make the Overlord being the specie which brought such abilities to the Swarm, as well as Nydus Wyrms for crossing such large distances, including voids in places such as Space Stations.

On top of that, it's used by other races to, generated, for transport. We've even seen this happen in a StarCraft2 cinematic, where the Hyperion escapes from a surprise Zerg attack after they remained dormant for so long. It is also the basis for the explanation for Ghosts' psionic abilities, such as being able to communicate telepathically. Lastly, if I have to explain how Protoss manipulates Warp Space, there's absolutely no point in continuing this discussion, as you'd simply know nothing about the game whatsoever.

So, with that knowledge, it can also be presumed that it is manipulated by other such creatures, such as all other flyers, allowing them to both stay afloat, move, and both survive and propel themselves in space. By extension, the same simple use of manipulating Warp Space can be applied to Lurkers in order to give a reason why they can attack as they do. As for butchering science fiction with such an explanation, if anything, not explaining how it is done would butcher it even more.

Lastly, manipulation of Warp Space, as I've practically already mentioned, extends beyond creating portals. distances can be changed, positions can be altered, time can be slowed, and those are just examples of stuff we can even think of.

So, next time, before you start trying to fling **** at others, perhaps you should learn a thing or two about the topic at hand, because right now, you're standing in it, about waist high.

 

No Warp.

No Warp.


Lore specifically states that only the overmind can create portals using psionic power. All other Zerg posess no psionic potential of importance. It is in fact the very reason they seek to bring the terrans into the fold.

So no, you can't use "warp" to excuse everything that doesn't make sense in the game. That is the true mark of crappy science fiction and it should stay off Starcraft.

 

Carrying other Zerg units within hollows in their hide does not disprove any use of manipulating Warp Space, and specifically stating that they make use of a weak telekinetic psi-ability, if anything, enforces it, as minor manipulation of Warp Space is a weak psi-ability.

And again, manipulation of Warp Space does not solely include the ability to make portals. I've already said this. For example, being one I've already given, Ghosts' telepathy, amongst their other abilities, are linked to Warp Space, and presumably the psionic abilities of the Protoss are as well.

Also, assuming that the Overmind's desire to assimilate Terran so they can gain the ability of psionic power is like saying that they desired to assimilate whatever the basis of Ultralisks were, in order to gain the ability of melee attacks. On top of that, the Infestor, Queen and Overseer are all Psionic units in StarCraft2.

Lastly, yes, you can use Warp, among other things, to explain things that don't otherwise make sense in a game. Not only is StarCraft riddled with examples of this, but if they weren't, then everything in the game would need to physically be able to be done in our world. So, yes, while, like you said, there's a reason it's called 'science fiction', as opposed to just 'fiction', you've got to be aware of why it isn't just called 'science' as well. StarCraft is filled with cop-out lines like Warp Space to explain stuff that doesn't make sense, such as Warp Space, the Void, assimilation, technology and psionic ability.

In fact, just as a footnote, the thing that makes me laugh is that you're trying so desperately to rid StarCraft of all cop-out lines, while offering nothing in its place. According to you, you'd rather have stuff that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in the game that Blizzard doesn't even try to explain over a simple explanation of concepts that are already embedded in the lore. Basically, you seem to prefer having absolutely no reason for Mutalisks to be able to fly in space, Lurkers to be able to have an absurd attack, Ghosts, Archons and High Templar being able to read minds, etc, than a reasonable cop-out.

 

I understand why mutalisks exist at all. They game is almost exclusively planned around planetary combat. As such, there would be no conflict except for space platform maps and certain cutscenes.

That is a small mistake yet something that as a whole downrates the whole quality of SC2 universe. I'm sure they will probably retcon it as they always have when this kind of situation comes up.

When the text mentions that they use a weak telekinetic abilty for propulsion, it is obvious that that a weak teleKINETIK (kinesia = movement) ability has the power of a weak propulsion system. Opening holes in the fabric of spacetime is not a weak ability in any universe. The fact that overlords don't posess any "warp" type abilities is pretty much well known, there is no argument about that. Maybe you've been seeing too much star trek.

Once again, lore states that the Overmind decided to attack terran worlds to incorporate their latent psionic abilities into the Swarm, as he realized that without them the Protoss would prove a tough match. The queen, is a biochemical warrior in SC1, so are the defiler and the new infestor, nothing psionic or "warpy" there. The new queen incorporates some possible psionic abilities, which is probably not unexpected since the successfull assimilation of the first psionic individual into the swarm, Kerrigan. So far, razor swarm and spawn larvae don't have squat to do with psionic abilities and even less some kind of warp.

You fail to understand basic facts about the natural universe, which are where science fiction is based. Mind reading is not impossible with the proper theoretical instruments or organs capable of detecting electromagnetic variations and decoding. Flying in space, on the other hand, is just retarded if you don't make a convincing case for it.

Science fiction has been on a decline the last decades because script writers become less and less scientific in their knowledge, to the point that "warp", or whatever cool sounding name they come up with, is used to justify any implausible flight of fantasy.

You seem to insist on solving clear design errors from blizzards side by waving your "warp" magical wand in a harry-potter fashion to solve any inconsistencies so you can claim that blizzard were in fact right to make impossible attacks such as lurker spines in BW and so on.

If you were a true fan you would stop trying to come up with excuses for design mistakes.

 

Hey Sueco, go troll somewhere else, this isn't the d2jsp forums, where it is acceptable. We don't tollerate that here. So cool it, alright?

You both have some right points. I honestly don't see the lurker being able to manipulate warp space though itza, sorry, it just doesn't have the brain capacity to handle the load of calculating warp.

Overlords, I can see however, not for holding inside themselves, but for flying.

Mutalisks I agree is pretty weird how they fly in space, however, I think they fly the same way guardians and devourers do, without the need for wings, the wings are just a trait left over from when they were assimulated.

 

Isn't trolling making pointless posts? Maybe my definition is outdated then.

 

No, Mutalisks are not almost exclusively based on planetary combat. If they were, they'd be something like the Banshee, which only operates inside of an atmosphere, but they don't. They're seen attacking Battlecruisers in orbit, flying in complete vacuums where they not only shouldn't be able to breathe, but shouldn't be able to move or steer, as well as suffering from other effects as well.

As for the weak telekinetic psi-ability, you're completely focusing on the wrong word. It's not simply a weak propulsion system, it's a psi-ability, and what would that stem from, if not a cop-out line? And again, you seem to enjoy not reading my posts. I've already said that being able to manipulate it means more than opening portals, and I've already given examples of that. Twice.

And once again, desiring to assimilate the Terran for their psionic powers does not equate to the Zerg having no such psionic potential. As I said, it's just like the Overmind desiring to assimilate the basis of the Ultralisk. It doesn't mean they had no melee capabilities before then.

And as for the Queen, Infestor and Overseer, you've completely missed the point. They are Psionic units. You know how Marauders, Siege Tanks, Immortals and Roaches are Armoured unit? And how Zerglings, Hydralisks, Zealots and Marines are Light units? And how Battlecruisers, Ultralisks, Carriers and Motherships are Massive units? Well Ghosts, High and Dark Templar, Archons and Queens, Infestors and Overseers are Psionic units.

As for mind reading, what you just said is as much a bunch of crap as saying something depends on the Warp is. On top of that, mind reading in StarCraft does, in fact, depend on Warp, as I've already stated several, several times.

And again, lastly, if you think that I'm the only one using these cop-out lines, you have both a very limited understanding of either science or what happens in the StarCraft universe, and haven't been reading my previous posts. As I've said, StarCraft is riddled with examples of cop-out lines. Warp Space, the Void, assimilation, technology and psionics are all examples of these.

Regardless, overall, having a cop-out explanation for impossibilities is better than having no explanation at all.

 

i dont see why they cant just add a weak melee attack for the lurker,
treat it like a siege tank where its more effective siege mode but can still attack in in tank mode

 

But what is the need for that? It's not as though Lurkers are slow or anything, so they'd almost always have the option of either running or Burrowing. If it is like the Siege Tank's Tank Mode, then it'll never be used anyway, as the only reason the Tank Mode's attack is ever used is when the enemy units would otherwise be within the Siege Tank's dead zone, or when fleeing, and that's a problem that the Lurker doesn't have.

 

I give up this has become trench warfare mate. Fun discussing though. It's up to the readers now.

P.D. I hope i wasn't too nasty. I've been told I have an aggressive discourse style.

 

Well maybe lurkers are just too clumsy to fight units unburrowed. They have never needed to fight zealots unburrowed so they haven't evolved to good fighters.

 

Itza, you're right and all that, but I think that most people just refuse to take your word for it. Quote some stuff from the wiki please, that should be plenty to avoid these thread killing flames. Just my opinion, but a piece of advice you might want to consider. Not much wrong about what you said, but lore fanatics just need some sort proof when you start questioning canon lore. I think you know what I mean with this when I say: warcraft lore discussions. Right? -wink-

ANYWAY, Mutalisks. All Zerg share the same gene pool. Some bits are pulled from that pool for each unit when it morphs from a Larva, the rest is discarded. We know that Behemoths are the original method of Zerg space transportation. Those breathe withing the atmosphere of a planet. Maybe Mutalisks work in the same way? They just use air they inhaled to propell themselves forward. Maybe it gets really compressed or something. Just look at their mouths: almost like a jet engine.

As for the psionic potential of each Zerg: they all have it. How else would they connect to Overlords? As for the Queen, she should just be put in the same class as an Ultralisk. She has nothing psionic, besides the mind link. She is just biologic-large.