What I've learned so far

Discussion in 'General StarCraft 2 Discussion' started by teraformer, Jul 4, 2010.

What I've learned so far

  1. teraformer

    teraformer New Member

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    After watching over a dozen SC2 video's the one thing that gets me is that base defense is negelcted. They throw up depot's and barracks at choke points and pump out units. And then they are attacked by air units or a small ground force and they have nothing to defend against the attack.

    When I played SC the first thing I did was build up my base defenses. Bunkers, photon cannons, missile turrets. This harassment by probes or SCV's or Drones could be stopped if they would just put up a bunker or cannon or spine crawler FIRST!

    Air defense is so neglected. Several of the games were lost because they failed to build turrets or cannons and the main base would fall to a handful of air units.

    I almost think I could have beaten some of those guys.

    And is it me or are you able to build up faster in SC2? After 2 minutes they have depot's and barracks and units pumping out. In SC it takes 2 minutes just to pump out enough SCV's, Probes, Drones just to get the base going. And after 5 minutes they have a formidable attack force.

    In SC after 5 minutes I just now am cranking out Marines and building bunkers and depot's. Am I missing something?

    And the units to me seem more fragile. 2 or 3 hits and down you go. Even large units like Colossus seem to go down very quickly. I dont know, to me the SC units seem to be able to hang in a fight longer.

    But this is just me I could very well be wrong. I do enjoy the video's. SC2 will no doubt be allot of fun to play.
     
  2. ijffdrie

    ijffdrie Lord of Spam

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    starcraft 2 has higher possible speed settings, which would explain the lower times needed for the reaching of the tresholds
     
  3. kuvasz

    kuvasz Corrections Officer

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    • About base defences, it's very simple. You either build base defence which occupy no supply and can't move or you build units which occupy supply and can move. Since the supply cap is rarely a problem everyone goes for units because an outranged base defence building is useless while moving ones (units) are versatile.
    • The second one is simple as well. In SC2 you start with 50% more workers than in SC, which cuts the preparation time by at least a third. As for quickly dying units, they die sooner in SC2 because the better pathfinding allows a lot more efficient focus-firing.
     
  4. bovineblitz

    bovineblitz New Member

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    building defenses to start the game will often lose you the game. If they can get in with anything ranged they can control you the whole game via micro and concurrently out-macro you easily as you'll be distracted by all the imminent threats. Defenses are a big investment and they're static... units are so much more dynamic with the ability to defend, attack, and micro around.

    IMO you'd get owned at high levels with this mindset.
     
  5. Kimera757

    Kimera757 New Member

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    Not counting void ray vs zerg cheese, you're probably right. However there are numerous strategies to use, and using base defenses is just one of them. They're strong, but can be evaded, especially with raider units, or (if not facing a terran base) you might be able to rush past them and attack the vulnerable economy.

    That's not always a good strategy, and could be based on the single-player campaign, which "taught" players to do this. If you turtle in your base, your enemy can outexpand you and build up a massive force, eventually crushing you, since you're expending so much money on base defenses the other side isn't even attacking.

    Of course, not doing this means you could just be crushed easily.

    I have this exact same problem. I think players do this because they don't know where to put them. If I put spore crawlers near my economy, my enemy can strike my tech buildings instead. If I put missile turrets near the edge of the base, the enemy can slip some good AtG units past them and pound my nearly air-defenseless economy instead. Or Vikings, which can land before they get to the turrets (if they're near your economy) or land right past the turrets (if they're at the base edge), therefore taking fewer hits.

    It's a lot easier to know where to put ground defenses, but even they can be evaded.

    The game does seem to start a lot faster. Good. I hate very early game.

    No. With the possible exception of the zealot, all directly converted units have the same or higher hit points, and usually don't do more damage; StarCraft II is a little more micro-focused. Similar units (eg hellion compared to vulture) usually have more hit points, too (and usually cost more to make up for it).
     
  6. DeckardLee

    DeckardLee Guest

    @TC: Bad advice is bad advice.
     
  7. teraformer

    teraformer New Member

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    re

    All good points.

    As for base defense. One game ended after 8 minutes because the Terran player got taken down by 6 Mutalisks. Yes 6! He had no anti-air defenses. They just flew in and destroyed his SCV's and started pounding his command center. His units were on the other side of the map and would not have been able to get back in time. Just a couple or 3 turrets would have prevented that. Or just some kind of anti-air defense.

    Another lost because a group of 12 Zerglings entered the Terrans base and went to work. If he had a bunker filled with Marines or whatever, it would not have happened. Game over after 6:50.

    Same with a Protoss player. Sustained heavy damage to his main base because he failed to produce any photon cannons or even a small force to defend. So 10 marines just waltzed in and started shooting away at his probes and buildings.

    And Im thinking "idiots! Why do you leave your base defenseless"?

    I know playing defensevely isnt the best strategy ( alhtough it worked somewhat for me when I played online) but at least have some kind of base defense so 6 Muta's or a handful of Marines dont end it after 8 minutes.