Viking Idea

I think it would be awesome if the vikings could fire at air or ground, regardless of what position (jet or mech) they're in. Like, if your viking is flying, you should be able to shoot at ground targets instead of having to land first, and vice versa. What do you guys think?

 

That way it'd just get massed and put in the form where it would be take the least damage. The fact that's either Ground-to-Ground or Air-to-Air means it has to be used tactically, not just all the time, every time.

 

Yeah, that's true I guess, so instead players would have do like a half and half raid. It would still be cool though.

 

Fully agree with Itza, it's as simple as that. Making it able to shoot its miniguns at ground would make it a Wraith without cloak, and making it able to shoot its rockets from the ground makes it into a Goliath at the same time. It would be too powerful and less tactical. Now it has to choose either to be about 75% Wraith or 75% Goliath.

A Siege Tank's transformation takes 3 seconds with "normal speed" on. Same is with the Vikings transform, it takes 3 seconds according to sources.
All Terran players know how crucial those seconds are. Sieging Siege Tanks' when spotting the charging enemy instead of already having them sieged might make the difference. Same with the Vikings. You have to carefully choose how to enter the next combat with them.

 

Those 3 seconds can destroy your entire viking force if you're in the wrong mode.

 

Exactly my point. I am glad you understand my reasoning.

 

...lol. Actually, a full-scale Banshee-Viking raid wouldn't be a bad idea...

 

It could quickly be countered by Mutalisks from the Zerg or Phoenixes from the Protoss. Both are extremely effective against swarmed units. Also, both of them aren't capital ships, which is what the Viking is most efficient against.
On top of that, they're both air units. If you wanted to counter Vikings and Banshees with Ground-to-Air, then the Vikings could form back into their ground form.

 

Well since Terran have good aitr to ground capabilities in the Banshee I don't think it should fire at the ground while flying but since the Terrans don't have anything besides marines for ground to air attacks the Viking should be able to fire anti-air missiles while walking but maybe have a fire rate penalty or something

 

You are right that ground to air attacks are missing from the terrans, there is only the missile turret, which is defensive, and the marine which is weak, but i don't think the viking would have a ground to air attack. Since there are empty spots in the factory with the Cobra taken out, they could find something out, to shoot to air. (By the way, I would like the Cobra back in game, I think more units mean more variations of tactics, and more tactics mean better games )

 

Yes but we don't want too many of the units to become overspecialized because then it locks you into a build order where if you don't have exact numbers of these exact units you die because you can't counter your enemy

 

Im sorry to say this, but this is the most stupid post i have seen yet.

And hunter, the viking is produced in the factory yet again.
Sp therefore i think the predator will return...

 

I wish I was reading the same threads as you.

Care to elaborate? Tell us why you don't like the idea you know instead of saying something is stupid and not qualifying it.

Don't know if you have heard this but opinions with no supporting reasons are quite useless.

 

The idea of the viking is to change form to attack different targets. His idea removes the only thing that is special about the Viking, and it will IMO result in making it overpowered as stated by ItzaHexGor. And i did not support it because i think it s obvious...

 

I am actually wondering if the Thor being changed once again means the Cobra is back.

Also though the predator is a nice thing to have the Terrans are still lacking a good ground to air unit that can attack air units without being hammered back by ATA attacks though those will probably be less of a problem as they were in the original

 

I dunno... The Cobra they scrapped currently had the elecrical attack that slowed units down. That ability has been passed on to the Marauder, and that ability kind of made the Cobra. Without it, it was (like a Marine) both GtG and GtA, without a special attack GtA, which we need right now.

 

Mobile missile battery anyone?

 

I don't think they would "stop" the raid...It would be a good battle, but a well-coordinated attack like that would destroy a lot before it's stopped. Throw in a couple of battlecruisers and it's game over.

And the Viking isn't just good at capital ships, with all those missles it could take out a lot of fighter units too.

And, gasmask, what's the marauder again? Havn't heard much about it.

 

Mutalisks or Phoenixes would easily stop the raid. To begin with, the Banshee's cannot attack either of them, so immediately you're only attacking with half your force. Phoenixes can use Overload which makes them attack the six closest targets with an increased attack speed, and the Mutalisk's Glave Wyrm can bounce off multiple targets making them both extremely effective against massed fighter ships. Just because you throw in Battlecruisers it doesn't mean it's game over. Again, all of these units you're attacking with are air units, and can easily be countered with swarmed air units. The Battlecrusier may be powerful, yes, but it isn't the be-all-and-end-all. They're costly in minerals, gas but also in supply. Having a single Battlecruiser, reduces the number of Banshees and Vikings that you can have by three, which makes your force a lot smaller with less attack power. At the moment, a Battlecruiser has eight attacks that do eight damage each, but it has a slow attack speed. Three Banshees on the other hand do fifteen attack each doing six damage each. On top of this, Banshee's have a faster attack speed. So, three Banshee's deal ninety damage per round of attacks, the Battlecruiser does sixty-four damage per round. The Banshee's are already dealing more damage, but factoring in attack speed, you lose a lot of attack power in just having one Battlecruiser on the field. Now, I'm not saying that Battlecruiser's are bad, but they're are mainly good for taking out Anti-Air towers and large other units with Yamato, or for taking out massed ground units with Plasma Torpedoes.
The Viking isn't only good against capital ships, true, but it is much weaker against fighter ships because of how the armor works in StarCraft2. It'll try to come up with an adequate example. Because I'm not sure how fast each of the attack speeds are, I can't use the actual statistics.
Say that the Air-to-Air attack of the Viking was 20 and that it attacks every 2 seconds, so it deals 10 damage per second.
Say that the Air-to-Air attack of the Predator (I know it's not in the game, I'm just using it for the sake of clarity) was 10 but it attacks every 1 second, so it also deals 10 damage per second.
When up against a target, with no armor, both the Viking and Predator deal the same amount of damage.
However, just say that they're attacked by 3 enemy air units with 50 health each. The Viking would require 3 attacks to destroy one, taking 6 seconds. The Predator would require 5 attacks to destroy one, taking 5 seconds. Overall, despite dealing the same damage per second, the Predator would destroy the enemies 3 seconds earlier than the Viking, making it much more effective against weak, swarmed units.
On the other hand, when attacking an enemy unit that does have armor, let's say 5 armor, then the Viking and the Predator do not deal the same damage per second. The Viking now deals 15 damage every 2 seconds, and the Predator deals 5 damage every second. The Viking's damage per second is 7.5, but the Predator's damage per second has been reduced to 5.
If the armored enemy has 100 health then the Viking requires 7 attacks to get though it, taking 14 seconds. The Predator would require 20 attacks to get through it, taking 20 seconds. Overall, despite having the same damage per second, the Viking is more effective against large, armored ships.
This happens because the armor is subtracted from the Predator's attack more often than the Viking, because it attacked more quickly.

 

Good Post! But i think that the viking will get a + attack vs capital ships, like the stalker has a bonus attack vs armored units... But that all depends on the "armor system", so we cant be sure at all.