Units that sucked!

I'm still bored from not having any new info to talk about.

So I'm going to talk about units that sucked, and thus probably will be, or needs to be, replaced or revamped.

First of all, the list. I guess I'll start with my main race, Zerg.

Ultralisk
Queen
Infested Terran
Broodling

These Zerg units sucked. Let's discuss their usefulness, or rather, how they sucked. But first, let's talk about why you would make hydras over zerglings for a second.

Let's forget about the fact that hydras can attack air and lings can not for now. Even if we only look at each of their damage dealing potential vs ground, we still can't ignore the fact that hydras have a ranged attack. But against a melee attacker, a hydra can maybe get in one free attack, at most two, before the melee unit closes in. Zerglings attack at approximately double(not precisely but very close to be good enough) the rate of hydras.

While hydras deal 10 explosive damage per attack, lings do 5 normal damage per hit. Even if we forget about the fact that hydras will deal reduced damage to many units(50% to lings for example), a ling attacking twice as fast as a hydra will match its damage output more or less. And this is just one zergling, you get two per larva.

So if you look at it larva for larva, food count for food count, lings double(200%) the damage output of hydras per food count in most cases and quadruple(400%) the damage output in situations where hyrdas deal half damage per hit. Lings out damage hydras, so obviously you don't get hydras for better damage.

Hydras have a build time of 28, as well as do lings. However, you get two lings per larva, so technically each ling has a build time of 14. But since realistically you do not have the option of building just one zergling, we go back to the fact that hydras and lings have equal build times per larva, or at equal food counts. So you don't make hydras because they build faster to help you out of a pinch either.

Each zergling has 35 HP, so lings have 70 HP per supply. Hydras on the other hand have 80 HP. However, they cost 25 more minerals and 25 more gas to make, the 10 HP hardly justifies the extra cost. For every 4 unit supply worth of units that you get in lings over hydras, we're talking about one free mutalisk or queen. Every 8 supply is one free ultralisk. So this is no chump change. Hydras do have 1 matrix longer sight range, but no one would pay 25 minerals and 25 gas for that. So you definitely don't get hydras for the bargain price, when you're paying more for a measly 10 extra HP while getting 50~25% damage output. Hydras are also higher tech, there's a price tag for that too.

So why DO you get hydras over lings? It's because they have a higher "minimum durability required to be functional" factor. This is one of the main reasons for choosing hydras over lings. What is this!? You've never seen this on any of the unit stat sheets? Let me explain.

We'll use siege tanks as an example. If the enemy is a few siege tanks, even if they were in siege mode, a group of lings could take them out easily. But if you add one siege tank at a time, it gets harder and harder for the lings to kill them, until at some point it becomes virtually impossible.

A siege tank in siege mode deals 70 explosive damage plus splash. Even with a 50% damage reduction to small units(lings) and without upgrades it is enough to kill a zergling in a single hit. However, the splash damage gets weaker the farther away from the center, thus most lings not taking the direct hit will survive to close in and destroy the tank. But as you increase the number of sieged tanks, you'll eventually come to a point where even the splash damage will take out most if not all of the lings in a single round of fire. This is when the situation surpasses the zerglings' threshold of "minimum durability required to be functional." A unit needs to be able to survive long enough to perform its functions, that's what "minimum durability required to be functional" is, and what it is exactly changes per situation.

The next step up from lings to obtain a higher "minimum durability required to be functional" factor would be hydras. Lings spread their life pool per larva/supply over two units, for 35 HP each. Hydras have all of their 80 HP all in one place, they have a higher "minimum durability required to be functional" factor than lings.

Higher "minimum durability required to be functional" is the reason why static D(towers) are effective in aiding base defense. They don't have to have the best damage output, and it is true that the money could be put into units for defending instead. However, in situations where "minimum durability required to be functional" have gotten higher, marines killing all your units as soon as they are built for instance, sunkens can still survive long enough to perform their functions.

Now if we go back and add even more siege tanks, it will eventually come to a point where even hydras won't be able to get close enough to attack even once before they wipe out. With enough tanks, the "minimum durability required to be functional" can still be ridiculously high even under the protection of darkswarm.

This is where ultralisks come in, our first "unit that sucked." They serve no other purpose, other than to survive and take hits in situations where the "minimum durability required to be functional" has gotten too high for the rest of Zerg's ground units.

Even though the "minimum durability required to be functional" factor is one major reason to get hydras over lings, there are other important reasons other than that such as anti-air, focus fire, etc. But not ultras, there is no other reason. Damage output of ultras are unimpressive compared to equal food hydras, and down right pathetic compared to lings. Ultras are high tech, high supply, expensive, and require all researchable upgrades to even be able to do what they are used for in the first place. Add to that, no anti-air, no focus fire, poor damage, poor maneuverability, and high liability for being resource/supply hogs.

But there are times Zerg players have to get them. Ultras are "only-if-must" units. No sane Zerg player will get them when they don't need to just because they are nice. Whenever Zergs tech ultras it's always because they are forced to. No matter how much they suck, we still have to reluctantly tech ultras because we have no better option. Ultras suck like hell, they need to be replaced or revamped.

Then we have the queen. These are even worse. Even though ultras are "only-if-must," at least there is a "must" for ultras. Not queens, there is no must, they just suck. Sure the abilities themselves are arguably not completely useless. After all, it's not like they do absolutely nothing after you click on them. But in all situations, you can just manage with just your other units. This way you get to save on tech expense and the trouble of making queens altogether. Queens qualify for a different category. While ultras are "only-if-must," queens are "more trouble than it's worth" units. There is very little incentive, let alone need, to justify the expense and effort that goes into getting them.

Broodlings sucked too. Out of all of queen's crappy abilities, spawn broodling is probably the closes to being almost useful, although still not reason enough to get queens. Broodlings themselves however, are completely and utterly crap, unlike the ability which was at least close to some usefulness. Sure, they can make free sack lunches for defilers. But why would you get queens, research the spell, charge energy, just to feed defilers, when you can just use easy-to-get lings for no additional tech at 25 a pop? Basically, for the ability to even be used meaningfully in the first place, broodlings will be killed instantly as soon as they are spawned because of their positioning.

I don't know what's the point in Blizzard even making the spell give you these units in the first place. And they even placed timers on them because they thought some geniuses might spawn a million broodlings off of broodlings sitting at home doing nothing else. They die instanly to anything, not even good for harassing workers. Broodlings suck like hell.

Having one crappy unit produced off of crappy queens wasn't enough, they made another. Infested terrans suck by default because they require the production of queens in the first place like broodlings. Not only that, they also require that you either have someone give you a free CC or that you be in a definite winning position anyway where you can mop up a base/expo and take the CC without retaliation coming to destroy the infested CC. Wonderful, something that's got even more trouble in the "more trouble than it's worth."

500 splash damage seems very impressive on paper. At first glance, infested terrans are practically walking nukes. WTF holy roxorz~!! Not quite. Most of their impressive splash damage goes into killing other infested terrans and nearby friendly Zerg units. Their splash radius also becomes less impressive when you decide to attack buildings.

When you're able to obtain infested terrans, there is no realistic use for them that late in the game. They are truly more trouble than they are worth, both in getting them and using them. Even with careful micro, they hinder your army's forward movement more than they aid it. If any accidentally go off on a closed in melee unit, there goes your other units. Even if you carefully send one at a time, in situations where the infested terran can actually reach its target, you can actually advance faster with you troops, rather than trying them one at a time.

Dropping is the one strat at least remotely useful. However, dropping infested terrans instead of other units mean that you lose the option of mopping up the base/expo when you're drop succeeds. The base/expo was obviously poorly defended, or had a glaring blind spot, for the extremely time consuming infested terran drop to work in the first place. In the same situation, other units would still deal much greater damage overall, even though none of them have the impressive-on-paper 500 damage per hit. 500 damage per hit is the last hit, the only hit, if it even hits at all.

Infested terrans require you to get a queen, which is already a "more trouble than it's worth unit, not even "only-if-must." Infested terrans require you to obtain a CC somehow and be able to have it where it's safe enough to sit and queue them. Infested terrans have a build time of 40, equal to overlords, for a small one-shot unit, that hella long. Infested terrans are expensive, have low "minimum durability required to be functional," have a danger factor for the rest of you unit investment, and are not even hit-or-miss with a one shot chance to blow your other units up or nothing at all. If you can send in multiple infested terrans and have it work, without fear of blowing up other infested terrans or other Zerg units, it would be a whole different story. But since that's not the case, infested terrans suck like hell.

Zerg alone has four units that sucked, and suck like hell they did. Zerg is still my main race though, I love Zerg. I wonder if even a single person will read this whole thing lol. I said I was bored.

 

Wow, someone read it, just wow.

I did mention hydra anti-air, it's after I got into ultras. It was brief though.

Another major merit of hydras, or any ranged unit for that matter, is that with enough in number and good positioning, they can raise the level of "minimum durability required to be functional" for the opposition. Just like the marines example.

Along with focus fire, these are the main advantages of having hydras, or just ranged units in general.

But that wasn't my point. It's about units that sucked!

 

sorry man, cant read something so long
il modify this post when i do read it

 

I just remembered that I'm gonna lose internet service for about two weeks because I'm moving today.

If by the time I get my internet service back up there is still no new info on SC2, I guess I'll get back on this out of boredom.

Thanks for reading btw.  Thnx on the power up also, but more for reading.

I knew there were other bored people dang it.

 

wow! this novel is interesting. :thumbup:
i like ultralisk not in game value but the ultralisk model itself, they look like big pets. and i think they are a cool zerg units.

i dont like overlords they are disturbing, annoying and i hate the way they sound.
yes i hate queen (specialy the unit image, similar to that female gremlin in gremlins 2 movie *yuck) and its broodling. yeh, they suck like hell.

last one, i have to say vultures except for their spider mines. they are boring when they are out of mines.

where are you moving? korea? .hehe. since you are moving.... owerup:

 

Nice analysis man. That really could do it for a Medium-Advanced player looking how to improve his tactics using teh zerg.

 

I used to play as zerg sometimes in a multiplayer map and I can agree about the "un-usefulness" of some of the units you have cited, But i think the zerg "queen" is overly underestimated, yes they do not have any attack abilities that can be of use against air or ground targets, but they can be a very effective support unit, for example, her ensnare ability if used properly can help slow down incoming enemy raids especially air units, making them vulnerable targets for your scourges, it can also reveal cloaked units within its target radius. another useful ability is the queen's parasite, which will allow you to gain vision of the target enemy unit, this is not useful against cheap units though as your opponent will most likely decide to kill them, but if you try infesting units like Carriers or Battlecruisers, then perhaps your enemy will think twice before deciding to destroy them. Her spawn broodling ability doesn't do much but it can still be very annoying against your opponent

 

very nice remy cant wait for your views on the other 2 races... and the queens parasite ability is good for scouting

 

What other units suck?

Cosairs - they are weak, have horrible attack damage and cannot attack ground. They are not even that fast.

Valkyrie - for similar reasons, it cannot attack ground.

Ultralisks - they use too much resources for it's effectiveness. Could have been more powerful, instead of behaving as a meat-shield

Vultures - apart from the mines and scouting I don't see much effectiveness in them.

Dragoons - they are big, dumb and clumpsy. Often they get stuck in tight spaces and choke points. This blocks the way for other units and they really need to be improved.

 

note: the following comment will most-likely be offensive >xP power me down if you want lol
i can't believe what you guys are saying....some of you guys really don't seem to have a clue about starcraft strategy =/
go on youtube, and either search up games of:
nal_ra / slayers_boxer / savior / julyzerg / bisu / nada / iris / reach / iloveoov
or go to the starcraft group and watch some of their latests VODs.....
and for people who are at least slightly up with any official sc tournaments out there (MSL OSL PGT) will all know that there is only 2 incredibly useless units in the game: scouts and valkyries

Warning: becareful of heart attacks from OMGBBQWTFLOLHOLYSHIZSNITCHMOTHEROF when watching the VODs of those professional korean gamers/"sc pimpest plays 2002-2006" videos for the first time =P

 

Yes scouts are quite useless. Piss poor ground attack, okay air attack, entirely too expensive. If you really want something anti air get dragoons. If you really want to fly around killing stuff, get a ****load of corsairs. Sure they can't attack ground but with scouts you wouldn't want them to attack ground anyways. Corsairs have splash and attack quite fast and they have the disruption web which is really good. And they don't cost almost as much as carriers.

Valks are good when your enemy has massed air. Especially zerg air. Or for raping overlord clusters.

Also, infested terrans anyone? First you have to find a command center and not destroy it, get your queen safely there, fly it to a safe place or make where it is safe, then spend lots of resources on something thats just going to blow itself up (or, more likely, die before it explodes). Sure they'd be nice if they were cheap like scourge and not hard to get but they weren't.

The only use for Infested Terrans was when I was already winning by a lot and just wanted to shove it in their face by loading Overlords up with Infested Terrans and dropping them like bombs over the enemy base.

 

Heh i see this as a guide for noobs like me i havent played it in years heh anyway i see as a hydra as kinds one of the best units and a valk sometimes didnt work! it must have been a bug but still i see this as a guide

 

Are you singleplayer? I gues you are...Corsairs are much more usefull than Scouts who just suck a lot. They kill mutalisk very easily, they are good in Ovrlord Hunting and scouting as well+disruption web is sometimes usefull.
Valkirie- they are usefull, but only on isle maps against Zerg.
Ultralisk- why are u bashing this unit? it's a very good tanker against both Terran and Protoss. Hes impresive strangth+zerglings+dark swarm=ownage. Anyway it sucks against the Zerg.
Vultures- they are good versus weak protoss units like probes, Zealots and dark templar. Good hit and run+mines.
Dragoons- while they AI sucks they are still basic range units of the Protoss. They are quite easy to kill anyway.

 

very interesting.

what about pointless upgrades? ie upgrades that cost more than it would to build several units, the upgrade doesnt offer much that 1 point of extra armour wont do much good against higher tech units really but an extra 3 units or so could tip a fight to ur favour. so whats the point on upgrades.

any thoughts...?

 

the upgrades can be that slight advantage that will win you a fight...you know?

 

Are you talking just armor upgrades or the armor and weapons. Because weapons upgrades generally add more than 1 point and are generally a good idea to get. Also, having one more armor is taking one less damage for each attack so all those 1s add up.

 

I agree, upgrades are VITAL in any game. It's surprising to see what a big difference it can make in the battlefield just by having a +3 damage and a +3 armor. Upgraded or un-upgraded units could decide a win or lost in a particular battle. Also other upgrades like zealot's movement speed and zergling's attack speed is DEADLY.

 

Shields suck. you should never upgrade it lol.
even if you wanna be funny and mass archons

 

The Ultralisk's role is more of a damage tank than an offensive unit - for instance mixing a few Ultralisks in with an army or Zerglings will ensure that alot of Zerglings will make it into close combat range, since the Ultralisks will be able to take hits and keep moving - thus stopping shots that would have vaporised a few zerglings. The Ultralisk is more of a support unit to the rest of the Zerg cheap attack units. Its high HP is more of a use than its low attack. The Queen is a real nice unit too - broodling the enemy tanks at the edges of the tank battery, and the other tanks will shoot the broodlings that result - and in more cases than 1, the tanks will kill more of themselves than the broodlings would. The Infested Terrans are another great unit - if you use the them right way. I once met a player who used his Infested Terrans in a similar role to spider mines - burrow them ahead of an incoming force and unburrow on top of an enemy attack force... BOOM! There goes a bunch of Marines/Zealots/Hydralisks etc...

All units have the ability to be very handy - think outside the box be imaginative and you can make units that seem bad quite good.

 

Hello hellbringer all your points are great! I really like how you said you can use infested terrans like spider mines! I've never thought of it before, and I'm sure to try it out next time I play the game.

Except.......this topic is about units that sucked