Underpowered Zerg VS T/P

Hello everyone,

i've already posted this text in the general discussion (or maybe i didnt cause i cant find it now there lolz...anyways) but it fits perfectly in here as well:

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I know that the three races have their own units, strategies and even their disadvantages against each other, but Zergs really are weak compared to protoss/terran (especially terran).


-Both Protoss and terran can build out of their main base, Zerg can't
2-both terran and protoss have new units with super powers (literally) like:
Protoss - Mother ship. Stalker. sentry void ray, phoenix, Colossus
Terran - That command center upgrade with the cannon on top,marauder (which i think its a unit too much powerful to have in the early beginning, you should reduce their damage a bit and rethink about their AOE), ghosts are even more powerful than before, this new air unit -Raven- with detector ability, a mini-nuclear air-ground missile and can also deply turrets wich last an eternity.

Those were some examples of protoss and terran.

Now the zerg:
- Roach, its a 16dmg unit at the begin not overpriced 75/25
- Infestor (that big larva..not sure of the name) it spits this green creep? thing out his mouth dealing some good damage and blocking enemy units
-and Broodlords very powerfull against ground with high range
-Corruptors air-air that can evolve to broodlords the “ground masters”

But that's the only new things about Zerg...Because they still same zerglings, hydras, mutalisks, ultralisks, banelings....
Roach is good but compared to marauders (like i said they are too powerful for the beginning) they are too slow attacking and can get even slower if the marauder has that slow upgrade and stimpack...

Corruptors they lack of range...they get beated up very easily by the terran viking...

-Strategically the only way to win a game with the Zerg is too use nydus channel...which is not always possible because if we find some smart players they will always put defensive structures around their base perimeter blocking the approach of overlords or any air unit with the objective to reveal the map in order to spawn the nydus, and even if i got to put the nydus in there..they would come and destroy it cause it has building time

-the zergs cannot block their base entrance in the begin like terran or protoss. In protoss case they just need to put some cannons behind the lines and my zerglings are dead...terrans bunker and marines...the zergs...well...the queen says (stupid terranzszszsz get out of my base! or..PRTOZSZSZS go away dudezszszzs!...i guess that doesn’t work very welll (ive tried it)

-They cant win games by building cannons/bunkers+ barracks in the enemy base in the beginning (i know that this two points are a basic strategy since Stracraft primordials but still...)




Raid Units:

there are no zerg unit able to make a direct raid into the enemy front door!

-terran have thanks, thors and god knows what else...
- protoss have collossus, Immortals, Carriers and Stalkers that blink to the inside of the base...
- Zerg has let‘s see...uuhhh zerglings?

example Zerg vs terran:

the zerg attack front door
the terran has the door fully blocked with structures, tanks in the back, turrets around, units inside...even with ultralisks it WONT work..its a small entrance...the tanks have AOE the Ultras are owned..

and if the terran attacks the zerg they will have no defensive strcture at their entrance (besides crawlers and spores of course) their buildings are too weak... the enemy just goes into the base and have the 5' o’clock tea sited in my drones and making the queen a slave...

and the same goes for Z vs P


now about the detector units:

Protoss have the cannons ,their only defensive structure (but very powerful thou), goes for Air and Ground, they are detectors as well and the observer which is great cause its always cloacked...

Terran have Turrets (anti-air) and Ravens air-unit with a great destructive power due to his abilities

Zerg have spire and overseers...which compared to T and P are nothing...

Also, zerg have no Cloacked unit...DarkTemplars have perm cloack...Ghosts banshees both deadly units have cloack as well...
“yes no cloack ability for zerg, but they can burrow”
dont even compare....


Well i think this is all. I just want to remember you that i am up to the good and bad of each race, but i can't stop notice that Zergs are really underpowered comparing to Terran or Protoss

It would be great if you could analyze the situation...

sorry for any writing mistake

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what do you think about this??

ill say it again...i know that there are several ways...strategies...to coutner P and T
i know that every race has its own strong and weakness...

but the truth is...that zergs are very underpowered vs P/T (especialy against T's)

sSoulSs

 

Zerg might not be overpowerd like terran but if u know how to play ur cards u can beat anyone and also baelings is a new unit... and if u want to break into a wall there is this thing called baelings to blow depos and run lings in and against vikings u should never use corrupters mutas are better with their AOE attack so please dont talk about stuff u dont know...

 

I really wanted to read the whole post but I gave up at about 3/5 of it. You are complaining that the races work differently, claim that the tank and the others are raid units, and most ridiculous of all, that the units dare counter what they were designed to counter. You need to relearn Starcraft from the ground up.

 

Woaw thats a lot of words... and i read all of it xD

well....... i agree with you about the fact that zerg is TERRIBLE compared to the other races but i dont really agree about WHY they are terrible.... i mean i haven't had problems with any of that before... o.o

but yeah..... i dont know why but zerg really seem to suck atm.... its sooo much easier to play protoss or terran.... their counter units are much better and terran can allways just go MMM and most likely win the game :C
and protoss can just go heavy air and harrass... or even kill the zerg.. or atleast keep him on 1 base... xD
well i dont really know if thats because zerg is bad or because im a big n00b but thats what i hate about playing zerg D:

 

finally some opinions

i knew that some of you guys would come here and say stuff like "you dont know what you are talking", "go learn how to play"

notice that i said that i am conscient that EACH RACE HAS THEIR OWN STRATEGIES, THEI GOOD&BAD

maybe the examples i posted arent the best

BUT

at the conclusion point they all come to an end:

Zergs are sucking big....

Matte said to use banelings and speed lings to go directly up a ramp...dude you know what a siege tank is? they kill the banelings before they even go up the ramp entrance...
and if you come to say: then use broodlords they have 9 range and give a lot damage to ground...yes but they dont fire missiles...they fire biological units...tanks will kill them at the moment tthey touch the ground....

**if the banelings are a new unit, them im sorry...i must have had a dream where i had a preview of the game <.< ...i really thought they already existed in SCBW...anyway....

one more thing...what are Ultraliks for in this SC2??? i dont even think they exist will im playing....theyre just useless...or maybe not...what you think??


thanks for posting

EDIT:

for Kuvasz: i admit...i only played the 1st SC...didnt played SCBW cause i couldnt..
now i come to SC2 and i play zerg...i watch videos on youtube...and its more that obvious that Zergs are really underpowered....
i did said some stuff that may not fit well...but..like i said...i only played SC, theres a lot i do not know...

EDIT2: Corrected some grammar mistakes


sSoulSs

 

If Z is so underpowered, why are they one of the most feared races to go up against? Because of one thing that makes them far more supperior to anyone other race. They are cheap, they are fast, they have average attacks, but you can pump the hell out of the units if you play them right. People keep complaining how every race is OP or UP and I'm bored of it. Blizzard made a game which was supposed to be equal on all 3 sides, and they did. If you can't play Z then play something else, simple as that. Takes a certain mind set to play all 3 races. If you think macro then zerg is the way to go. If you think micro then protoss is the way to go, if you think in the middle of both of those then go terran. The only thing I would nerf in this game are Marauders and Voids. Other than that...not really. Everything has a counter, it's the players job to find out what that may be. Terran wall up.. Mass banelings. You know why? Cus if there are units directly behind the wall they are dead or severly injured. Yes, the Terran can wall. But did you ever think that the wall hurts them in some ways? Gives them a sort of meat shield from melee units, but it's weak and takes away from their range drastically. I mean.. A marine shooting over a depot is the equivelent of atleast taking away 1/4 of his rifle range.

As to the fool saying how banes get raped by tanks. No crap. -.- That's why you mix them up with units and send them in. OR! You could learn to micro, send a small wave of lings first, then the main group of **** with the banes in them. The first group dies but draws fire and forces reload. With speed upgrade the banes are already kicking the door down like an angry pimp lookin for his hoe's money.

 

it's easy to talk Takaim...(i havent tried that baneling rush yet mainly because im convinced it will fail, ill try it tonight), just imagine this (it happenned tome):
-the terran had 3 or 4 rows of buildings protecting the ramp at his mainbase....and had like 10 tanks...(the tanks werent in the back row, they were between the rows to get a good range)

in this situation it was impossible to go there man...he had turrets near the tanks..even if i wanted to destroy them with mutas i couldnt..

So any baneling that come near that ramp would get blowed up..

you're not telling me anything about that baneling rush...but its such a fragile unit you know?

ive made this thread not just for you guys came here and basicly call me noob or say "go learn how to play"

im also calling for some sort of help to counter the problems e mencioned in that big letter....
i still need a lot of practice, but there are things that cant be ignored

Zerg isnt the easiest race...but i like it

Makki was the one who understood me so far...
but i still apreciate all the posts ofc, cause like i said i want your opinins, helps, knowledge so i can better understand zerg and lear how to deal with the issues mencioned in that big letter above, because those are my main issues right now (mine and all the new zerg players im shure).

Thanks, sSoulSs

 

I can't even begin to address your balance argument because there are so many factual errors in your post that I find the task of correcting it all too daunting. It doesn't even sound like you have any considerable experience playing zerg.

 

i have no comment for that reply...thats the type of reply that i consider unnecessary....

i'll repeat myself...

"i only played Sc1 cause i could get broodwar"
"im also calling for some sort of help to counter the problems e mencioned in that big letter....
i still need a lot of practice, but there are things that cant be ignored"
"im conscient that every race has its own strategie and weakness"

sSoulSs

 

One of the few things that actually angers me are people who are obviously not particularly experienced at the game stating that its a "fact" that "x race is weak to y race"

That quote right there is freaking retarded. Also, it completely negates any help that someone may be willing to give you since you KNOW they are underpowered so any argument to the contrary will fall on deaf ears.

Here are the only "truths" about sc2 in relation to game balance.

1. Each race is different, as such each race has different strengths and weaknesses. You are correct on this one.

2. If you play each race the same you will most likely lose.

3. If you assume something is op simply because you cant beat it you will not learn.

4. Every race is stronger in certain situations then others.

5. EVERY race is relatively balanced. Its NOT perfect, however amongst players of equal skill the win/lose ration of each race is within 5%

6. Zerg have no cloaking unit, True. EVERY zerg unit can burrow Also, true. Doesn't compare? TRUE

7. Not trying new things because you know they will fail? That leads to failure. (obviously within reason, I haven't yet tried drone rushing at 50 supply, but you understand... I hope)

8. Broodlords annihilate tanks... I dont know what the hell your talking about in your analogy of tanks killing broodspawn as soon as they hit the ground... spawns are supposed to die.

9. Strategically the only way to win with zerg is to play better then your opponent. Nydus canal or not.

10. Closing your mind to change, and not accepting that you could be wrong stops you from getting better. Stop it

 

Well sSoulSs, let me kindly go against your arguement here.

i do agree with you, when thinking about it how Zerg counter different units from the other 2 races are quite weak, especially having a bunch of reapers destroying your base or having zealots masssacre your zerglings while battling on a choke point, or even void rays charging their lasers at your base very early game (that's called 'cheese' btw kekekekeke). But it's all about how you deal with it.

- I'll start with scouting (with this, you can accomplish anything if you gain enouigh intel of what your opponent is doing) , scouting is your best friends and it is so helpful, especially when you scout those reapers coming at you, with this you can set your roaches or zerglings to their position and BAM! they fly up to the cliff of doom, especially Stalkers, they might have it worse.

This can be done by Zerg doing early scouting and knowing the build that the oppenent is doing, such as:
- is he doing a tech lab attached to his rax? he might go for reapers. Especially Hellions, is your oppenent building a factory with a reactor? then he's most likely is going for Hellions.
or for Toss.
-Cybernetics Core and twilight council, and if you see Stalkers (and a majority of them), you'll know that he is going for blink.

To scout with Zerg, you should have a Overseer quickly to scout around and do the changeling ability. Now this baby right here is so useful and your enemy hardly knows about the changeling unless he is focusing around the base (if you put the changeling in their base) and it grabs so much info of what he is building, but then again you could just get the speed upgrade for ovies and scout around their base, which is cool enough though i would prefer changelings so you won't have to sacrifice food and money. Also scouting especially works when you know they're cheesing.

Now the big problem you are having now is probably the counters for Zerg, here are some counters for Zerg:
-Roaches and Hydra combo>Thors>Mutas > Vikings and maybe Phoenixes and >Corrupters
-Corrupters>BC and other heavy armouired units and Air-Ground air units.
-Zerglings>Marauders and Stalkers and Hydras
-Hydras are so so so so so so good against Stalkers because of their attack rate are so mooch better.
-Infestors and Banelings> MMMs or some other bio ball.
-Ultras and Broodlords are like the big daddies (and mothers) of the Zerg. With Ultra armour upgrade, they are almost unstoppable but with the new patch, im not so sure.

I think that's all of it, but Corrupters are good support units especially with their Corrupt ability which does 25% extra damage on target but it's all about the strategy you choose. And Banelings are very useful, even when they die, they still deal damage to the opponent's units, plus they're gonna die anyway and they're so fun to use as well.

But yes, Zerg are the toughest race to choose from, whether you build a drone or a unit, it's a tough decision to make but it's all about what build order you're doing, micro is also important as it plays a big part as well. Unlike Terrans going A-move only shalololollolol.

oh and here's a link for some ideas and advice: http://blizzard-gaming.blogspot.com/2010/09/sc2-general-upgrade-maths-and-game.html

btw the patch is 1.1 but i don't thin blizz has made much changes for the most recent patch, oh and i recommend watching day9 videos:

http://day9tv.blip.tv/

they are so funny as well.

By the way, did you know that Zerg players win by building no queens? Well, it's all in Day9's vids called Monday Funday, they're good to watch. Hope i've helped.

I know Zerg are a tough race to control, i have such a tough time with Protoss, especialy with their damn Colossus, but with Terrans i hardly have a problem with them, all i just did was build air units mid game and i win . If they're going for MMMs, Banelings buddy, BANELINGS!!!!!!!!!!.....or infestors

Hope i helped, hope you're eyes don't bleed and hope you handle my grammar but hopefully, you enjoyed what i posted...........man what a wall of text O_O

 

Only because zerg doesn't have to build barracks and factories and such, they just need one queen per base and the expansion itself makes units. Possibly the strongest racial advantage in the entire game.

All extremely powerful units. Zerglings especially, they are so cheap, fast, and damaging that I consider them one of the most powerful units in the game. Enemy pushes with 10 marines and 10 marauders? Surround with ~40 zerglings and the terran force gets completely wiped with 0% chance of making it back to base.

Roaches are countered by marauders. Use zerglings instead.

Corruptors aren't effective against vikings. Use mutalisks instead.

You are focusing too much on breaking the enemy base ASAP. Instead, just contain him to one or two bases; tanks are amazing defenders but they are extremely vulnerable if they push out, especially to the aforementioned zergling surrounds. Once he is holed up in his base, just throw down 2-3 more expansions and mass produce drones. Your economy will be so good you can just throw infinite amounts of brood lords and mutalisks at him until he crumbles.

They don't need to wall, because speed zerglings will kill any small attack early on.

Zerg can cheese too, by 6-pooling. I consider that to be the cheese that is hardest to defend against, since on most maps the zerglings will arrive at the enemy base before they have time to completely wall off or get any combat units, forcing them to fight with workers.

And where exactly is your army this whole time? Did the enemy outplay you (higher SKILL, not imbalance) and kill it all?

Zerg has by far the best detection in the game, with overseers. 150 minerals 100 gas, gives 8 supply, requires only a lair (other races need to invest FAR more in tech to get their detectors) and creates free, disposable scouts.

Banelings can explode while burrowed, dealing full damage (they are the land mines of SC2)
Roaches can attack, then burrow to heal to full, unburrow and attack again, burrow to heal, etc until enemy is all dead.
Infestors can burrow, move in undetected, spawn a FREE army of infested marines, and run away, all while burrowed.

All of the above can be devastating if the enemy does not have detection.

Brood lords launch broodling projectiles to deal 20 damage per shot. Also, when the broodling gets shot by tanks, the tank splash damage will hit whatever the broodling was thrown at causing even more damage. Basically, brood lords launch sweet exploding projectiles that deal ~45 damage per hit.

The point is to do the baneling rush EARLY, while the enemy still has only a few supply depots as a wall, and only a handful of marines, marauders, and one tank (with siege mode research not quite done) behind it.

 

As far as I'm concerned, Z underpowered arguments are fairly irrelevant. Gotta look at TvP now since the patch, I sense a disturbance in the force in favor of the Protoss.

If you still have doubts about HOW Zerg can beat T or P, check out GOMtv's Fruit Dealer videos. Reeeediculous.

 

thats what i wanted to read..finaly..i just wanted someone to analyse and explain some of my points.

thanks a lot Dudes!!!

this is really going to help thanks again

(feel free to keep replying on this thread)

sSoulSs

 

Well here my 5 cents on the underpowered argument.

Your treating zerg wrong.

Serously.

Zerg have a easy time expanding and have a easy time scouting. They also have some of the best units for harrasment and can really get the troups up fast.

Why the hell do you feel the need to attack a terran front door?

With mutas and infestors you can make your oppoment expos never happan. With zerglings, hydras, rouches and ultralists you can build a large and balanced army, which thanks to your plenterfull surplies, can easly be rebuilt rapidly.

Stop attacking your foes on there own terms, make him play by your rules instead.

 

Zerg gameplay is just such different from others...

 

Don't quote more than you post! Read the forum rules before posting!

Hi Souls xD

like i told you just need to find the best strategy to use with zerg's, i have told you some stuffs like to you told me, its a fact that terran are a lot better than they used to be (dont say they arent cuz they are) in my opinion terran is really easy to play with cuz you dont need a good strategy to win.

i hope some ppl can change some ideia here insteed insulting eachother like little kids.

I only play with protoss, but in my opinion a good tactic would be zerg, roach and hydra all mixed, and banelling to kill some units rush or even to break some stuctures.

Another one and i told you this, and this really works, is to call a lot of infested terrans with infestor, its like raven using turrets, its very efective in my opinion, i have tested it with siege behind barracks making a wall and they work cuz siege cant kill them all at once some will come out and start attacking.

you have more tactics just need to find out some and if someone can help you with this i hope they do.


Ryukossei =)

 

indeed....

you should be sleeeeepppiiinnnggg!

xD

Don't quote more than you post, and one word posts are considered spam! Read the forum rules before posting!

 

Zerg DO have a different play style. I believe Zerg are "somewhat" UP, but not to an extent where it's impossible to win.

Research Fruitvendor (former oGsCool), he just won the GSL's last night (and won 1million won, or $85,000 USD). He now stands as the #1 SC2 player in the world and plays as Zerg.

 

wow good for him...
ill ask him for some mineral$$$$

xDD

anyway...i played like 4 games with protosso and terran...and its much more easier to win/survive with those too...

i even made cannon/marines rush lol and i have low experience with that tactics...its much more easier than zerg...